4-18 Bucs at Cards
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
4-18 Bucs at Cards
I didn't expect the Pirates to win tonight with the Marte news. But they sure had their chances in the 9th inning. Bell got rung up, but he clearly didn't swing. Gosselin with a dribbler. Just needed a fly ball to the outfield. Was Stewart used? I'd rather have him bat than Gosselin.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
4-18 Bucs at Cards
1E16152234113639570 wrote: Let me see Pirates get 11 hits score 1 run, Cards get 4 hits 2 runs, thats Cardinal baseball they take advantage of every little thing and Pirates and Hurdle squander every opportunity. I really dislike Gosselin awful at bat why is he on this team. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8rxPrV ... 8rxPrV-tn4
How is this Hurdle's fault?
Let me explain it to you, he had Hanson on 1st base, when a team isn't scoring (let me remind you 1 run last nite) you have to put pressure on defense not play base to base. Hanson might have stole second and Molina might have thrown ball into center which could have let Hanson go to 3rd. Cards haven't been scoring runs just 4 hits tonight but they put pressure on you and create runs. A manager should know these simple things. If you get 11 hits and only scoring 1 run you're doing something wrong.
How is this Hurdle's fault?
Let me explain it to you, he had Hanson on 1st base, when a team isn't scoring (let me remind you 1 run last nite) you have to put pressure on defense not play base to base. Hanson might have stole second and Molina might have thrown ball into center which could have let Hanson go to 3rd. Cards haven't been scoring runs just 4 hits tonight but they put pressure on you and create runs. A manager should know these simple things. If you get 11 hits and only scoring 1 run you're doing something wrong.
4-18 Bucs at Cards
I actually thought Hurdle managed the game ok. True, we were out of a bench, but you have to make it to extra innings for that to even matter. My only issue with him was that he should have squeezed in the 9th with one out. I, like others, have no hope in Gosselin. That should have used their best pitcher and squeezed. It doesn't matter if the other team knows it. It's all about execution.
4-18 Bucs at Cards
60787A7D7D6A7B7C616076130 wrote: Let me see Pirates get 11 hits score 1 run, Cards get 4 hits 2 runs, thats Cardinal baseball they take advantage of every little thing and Pirates and Hurdle squander every opportunity. I really dislike Gosselin awful at bat why is he on this team. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8rxPrV ... 8rxPrV-tn4
How is this Hurdle's fault?
Let me explain it to you, he had Hanson on 1st base, when a team isn't scoring (let me remind you 1 run last nite) you have to put pressure on defense not play base to base. Hanson might have stole second and Molina might have thrown ball into center which could have let Hanson go to 3rd. Cards haven't been scoring runs just 4 hits tonight but they put pressure on you and create runs. A manager should know these simple things. If you get 11 hits and only scoring 1 run you're doing something wrong.
I'm really debating posting this, as I don't want it to seem argumentative. But, I'm going to anyway. No intention of ripping on you...just want to push you a bit on this.
First, IMO, the Cards didn't score runs by putting pressure on the defense. In the first inning, I was driving, so only listening on radio. But, it sounded to me like Fowler had a triple, that could easily have been ruled a double and an error. Regardless, not the result of pressure. He scored on an RBI FC to Bell, that should have been an RBI groundout. So, it's a wash.
Second, Martinez scored on an RBI double from Garcia. Aggressive base running, sure, but hardly the result of putting pressure on the defense. Lots of guys score from first on a double.
Third, Hanson moved to second base when Cervelli got his single. First and second, no outs. And you're upset that he didn't steal second base? He was there any way. Maybe you wanted him moving on the first pitch, so he would have scored on the Cervelli single? But, it's not that easy. Any good base stealer will tell you that you need a couple of pitches to figure out the pitcher's timing. It's not just a matter of first pitch...go! (Unless you're Billy Hamilton or Ricky Henderson, and Hanson is neither.)
Fourth, Molina might have thrown the ball into center field? You do know you're talking about arguably the best defensive catcher not named Johnny Bench in the history of the game, right? He's got approximately a .001% chance of throwing a ball into center field, and that might be overestimating it. I checked...Molina has made 62 errors in his career, a .995 fielding percentage. But has thrown out 41.6% of runners trying to steal on him. I have no doubt that you would be among the first to criticize what a dumb move it is to run on Molina if and when Hanson gets thrown out in your scenario, and rightly so, because it would be dumb. Probably why Clint didn't do it.
Listen, again, I'm not trying to bag on you. But this does nothing other than make you look like a bitter troll with some personal vendetta against Clint Hurdle. If you really have an issue with Hurdle, I suggest you stick to actual questionable decisions on which to criticize him.
How is this Hurdle's fault?
Let me explain it to you, he had Hanson on 1st base, when a team isn't scoring (let me remind you 1 run last nite) you have to put pressure on defense not play base to base. Hanson might have stole second and Molina might have thrown ball into center which could have let Hanson go to 3rd. Cards haven't been scoring runs just 4 hits tonight but they put pressure on you and create runs. A manager should know these simple things. If you get 11 hits and only scoring 1 run you're doing something wrong.
I'm really debating posting this, as I don't want it to seem argumentative. But, I'm going to anyway. No intention of ripping on you...just want to push you a bit on this.
First, IMO, the Cards didn't score runs by putting pressure on the defense. In the first inning, I was driving, so only listening on radio. But, it sounded to me like Fowler had a triple, that could easily have been ruled a double and an error. Regardless, not the result of pressure. He scored on an RBI FC to Bell, that should have been an RBI groundout. So, it's a wash.
Second, Martinez scored on an RBI double from Garcia. Aggressive base running, sure, but hardly the result of putting pressure on the defense. Lots of guys score from first on a double.
Third, Hanson moved to second base when Cervelli got his single. First and second, no outs. And you're upset that he didn't steal second base? He was there any way. Maybe you wanted him moving on the first pitch, so he would have scored on the Cervelli single? But, it's not that easy. Any good base stealer will tell you that you need a couple of pitches to figure out the pitcher's timing. It's not just a matter of first pitch...go! (Unless you're Billy Hamilton or Ricky Henderson, and Hanson is neither.)
Fourth, Molina might have thrown the ball into center field? You do know you're talking about arguably the best defensive catcher not named Johnny Bench in the history of the game, right? He's got approximately a .001% chance of throwing a ball into center field, and that might be overestimating it. I checked...Molina has made 62 errors in his career, a .995 fielding percentage. But has thrown out 41.6% of runners trying to steal on him. I have no doubt that you would be among the first to criticize what a dumb move it is to run on Molina if and when Hanson gets thrown out in your scenario, and rightly so, because it would be dumb. Probably why Clint didn't do it.
Listen, again, I'm not trying to bag on you. But this does nothing other than make you look like a bitter troll with some personal vendetta against Clint Hurdle. If you really have an issue with Hurdle, I suggest you stick to actual questionable decisions on which to criticize him.
4-18 Bucs at Cards
627F5B5957320 wrote: I actually thought Hurdle managed the game ok. True, we were out of a bench, but you have to make it to extra innings for that to even matter. My only issue with him was that he should have squeezed in the 9th with one out. I, like others, have no hope in Gosselin. That should have used their best pitcher and squeezed. It doesn't matter if the other team knows it. It's all about execution.
IDK...a squeeze is a tough play with a force at the plate. And if you send a pitcher up there with an actual position player left on your bench, you're telegraphing it. Third baseman crashes, and it's an easy force play. Pop up, and it's an easy double play. It's aggressive. But I don't think it's the right call in that situation. Personally, I would have liked to see Stewart. I'm weirdly comfortable with him at the plate.
IDK...a squeeze is a tough play with a force at the plate. And if you send a pitcher up there with an actual position player left on your bench, you're telegraphing it. Third baseman crashes, and it's an easy force play. Pop up, and it's an easy double play. It's aggressive. But I don't think it's the right call in that situation. Personally, I would have liked to see Stewart. I'm weirdly comfortable with him at the plate.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
4-18 Bucs at Cards
141C1F283E1B3C335D0 wrote: Let me see Pirates get 11 hits score 1 run, Cards get 4 hits 2 runs, thats Cardinal baseball they take advantage of every little thing and Pirates and Hurdle squander every opportunity. I really dislike Gosselin awful at bat why is he on this team. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8rxPrV ... 8rxPrV-tn4
How is this Hurdle's fault?
Let me explain it to you, he had Hanson on 1st base, when a team isn't scoring (let me remind you 1 run last nite) you have to put pressure on defense not play base to base. Hanson might have stole second and Molina might have thrown ball into center which could have let Hanson go to 3rd. Cards haven't been scoring runs just 4 hits tonight but they put pressure on you and create runs. A manager should know these simple things. If you get 11 hits and only scoring 1 run you're doing something wrong.
I'm really debating posting this, as I don't want it to seem argumentative. But, I'm going to anyway. No intention of ripping on you...just want to push you a bit on this.
First, IMO, the Cards didn't score runs by putting pressure on the defense. In the first inning, I was driving, so only listening on radio. But, it sounded to me like Fowler had a triple, that could easily have been ruled a double and an error. Regardless, not the result of pressure. He scored on an RBI FC to Bell, that should have been an RBI groundout. So, it's a wash.
Second, Martinez scored on an RBI double from Garcia. Aggressive base running, sure, but hardly the result of putting pressure on the defense. Lots of guys score from first on a double.
Third, Hanson moved to second base when Cervelli got his single. First and second, no outs. And you're upset that he didn't steal second base? He was there any way. Maybe you wanted him moving on the first pitch, so he would have scored on the Cervelli single? But, it's not that easy. Any good base stealer will tell you that you need a couple of pitches to figure out the pitcher's timing. It's not just a matter of first pitch...go! (Unless you're Billy Hamilton or Ricky Henderson, and Hanson is neither.)
Fourth, Molina might have thrown the ball into center field? You do know you're talking about arguably the best defensive catcher not named Johnny Bench in the history of the game, right? He's got approximately a .001% chance of throwing a ball into center field, and that might be overestimating it. I checked...Molina has made 62 errors in his career, a .995 fielding percentage. But has thrown out 41.6% of runners trying to steal on him. I have no doubt that you would be among the first to criticize what a dumb move it is to run on Molina if and when Hanson gets thrown out in your scenario, and rightly so, because it would be dumb. Probably why Clint didn't do it.
Listen, again, I'm not trying to bag on you. But this does nothing other than make you look like a bitter troll with some personal vendetta against Clint Hurdle. If you really have an issue with Hurdle, I suggest you stick to actual questionable decisions on which to criticize him.
It looked like to me Martinez had a huge lead off 1st and maybe even was running on Garcia's double and that's what allowed him to score, again aggressive baserunning putting pressure on defense, that's exactly how you score 2 runs on 4 hits, how many pitches should Hanson look at before running, seems to me a 1 and 1 count is a good count to run on, if Hanson steals second then he scores on Cervelli's hit. Of course he could have been thrown out but would we have been in any worse shape than what happened. How about a squeeze play with one down and Hanson on 3rd, couldn't try that either. Let's just wait for the base hit from the bottom of the line up that's the ticket. Scoring 1 run on 11 hits is just one of the many reasons I think Hurdles management style isn't working. His lack of hit an run anything to get this team going is just awful and defending him is going to get harder as the year goes on, I can promise you.
My argument and I think it's solid baseball is if you're having trouble scoring runs you have to put as much pressure on the defense as possible. Just heard that argument the other day on MLB network. Of course they may have something against Hurdle's style of management just like me.
How is this Hurdle's fault?
Let me explain it to you, he had Hanson on 1st base, when a team isn't scoring (let me remind you 1 run last nite) you have to put pressure on defense not play base to base. Hanson might have stole second and Molina might have thrown ball into center which could have let Hanson go to 3rd. Cards haven't been scoring runs just 4 hits tonight but they put pressure on you and create runs. A manager should know these simple things. If you get 11 hits and only scoring 1 run you're doing something wrong.
I'm really debating posting this, as I don't want it to seem argumentative. But, I'm going to anyway. No intention of ripping on you...just want to push you a bit on this.
First, IMO, the Cards didn't score runs by putting pressure on the defense. In the first inning, I was driving, so only listening on radio. But, it sounded to me like Fowler had a triple, that could easily have been ruled a double and an error. Regardless, not the result of pressure. He scored on an RBI FC to Bell, that should have been an RBI groundout. So, it's a wash.
Second, Martinez scored on an RBI double from Garcia. Aggressive base running, sure, but hardly the result of putting pressure on the defense. Lots of guys score from first on a double.
Third, Hanson moved to second base when Cervelli got his single. First and second, no outs. And you're upset that he didn't steal second base? He was there any way. Maybe you wanted him moving on the first pitch, so he would have scored on the Cervelli single? But, it's not that easy. Any good base stealer will tell you that you need a couple of pitches to figure out the pitcher's timing. It's not just a matter of first pitch...go! (Unless you're Billy Hamilton or Ricky Henderson, and Hanson is neither.)
Fourth, Molina might have thrown the ball into center field? You do know you're talking about arguably the best defensive catcher not named Johnny Bench in the history of the game, right? He's got approximately a .001% chance of throwing a ball into center field, and that might be overestimating it. I checked...Molina has made 62 errors in his career, a .995 fielding percentage. But has thrown out 41.6% of runners trying to steal on him. I have no doubt that you would be among the first to criticize what a dumb move it is to run on Molina if and when Hanson gets thrown out in your scenario, and rightly so, because it would be dumb. Probably why Clint didn't do it.
Listen, again, I'm not trying to bag on you. But this does nothing other than make you look like a bitter troll with some personal vendetta against Clint Hurdle. If you really have an issue with Hurdle, I suggest you stick to actual questionable decisions on which to criticize him.
It looked like to me Martinez had a huge lead off 1st and maybe even was running on Garcia's double and that's what allowed him to score, again aggressive baserunning putting pressure on defense, that's exactly how you score 2 runs on 4 hits, how many pitches should Hanson look at before running, seems to me a 1 and 1 count is a good count to run on, if Hanson steals second then he scores on Cervelli's hit. Of course he could have been thrown out but would we have been in any worse shape than what happened. How about a squeeze play with one down and Hanson on 3rd, couldn't try that either. Let's just wait for the base hit from the bottom of the line up that's the ticket. Scoring 1 run on 11 hits is just one of the many reasons I think Hurdles management style isn't working. His lack of hit an run anything to get this team going is just awful and defending him is going to get harder as the year goes on, I can promise you.
My argument and I think it's solid baseball is if you're having trouble scoring runs you have to put as much pressure on the defense as possible. Just heard that argument the other day on MLB network. Of course they may have something against Hurdle's style of management just like me.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
4-18 Bucs at Cards
Thanks Obama Hurdle!
"Putting pressure on the defense" sounds a lot like how we always get caught stealing or leading off first base, or what got our 3B coach from last season fired. Except when we do do it, instead of calling it "putting pressure on the defence" we call it "stupid baserunning." Potayto, potahto.
At least we get to complain either way!
"Putting pressure on the defense" sounds a lot like how we always get caught stealing or leading off first base, or what got our 3B coach from last season fired. Except when we do do it, instead of calling it "putting pressure on the defence" we call it "stupid baserunning." Potayto, potahto.
At least we get to complain either way!
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Bobster21
4-18 Bucs at Cards
3F272522223524233E3F294C0 wrote: Let me see Pirates get 11 hits score 1 run, Cards get 4 hits 2 runs, thats Cardinal baseball they take advantage of every little thing and Pirates and Hurdle squander every opportunity. I really dislike Gosselin awful at bat why is he on this team. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8rxPrV ... 8rxPrV-tn4
How is this Hurdle's fault?
Let me explain it to you, he had Hanson on 1st base, when a team isn't scoring (let me remind you 1 run last nite) you have to put pressure on defense not play base to base. Hanson might have stole second and Molina might have thrown ball into center which could have let Hanson go to 3rd. Cards haven't been scoring runs just 4 hits tonight but they put pressure on you and create runs. A manager should know these simple things. If you get 11 hits and only scoring 1 run you're doing something wrong.
I'm really debating posting this, as I don't want it to seem argumentative. But, I'm going to anyway. No intention of ripping on you...just want to push you a bit on this.
First, IMO, the Cards didn't score runs by putting pressure on the defense. In the first inning, I was driving, so only listening on radio. But, it sounded to me like Fowler had a triple, that could easily have been ruled a double and an error. Regardless, not the result of pressure. He scored on an RBI FC to Bell, that should have been an RBI groundout. So, it's a wash.
Second, Martinez scored on an RBI double from Garcia. Aggressive base running, sure, but hardly the result of putting pressure on the defense. Lots of guys score from first on a double.
Third, Hanson moved to second base when Cervelli got his single. First and second, no outs. And you're upset that he didn't steal second base? He was there any way. Maybe you wanted him moving on the first pitch, so he would have scored on the Cervelli single? But, it's not that easy. Any good base stealer will tell you that you need a couple of pitches to figure out the pitcher's timing. It's not just a matter of first pitch...go! (Unless you're Billy Hamilton or Ricky Henderson, and Hanson is neither.)
Fourth, Molina might have thrown the ball into center field? You do know you're talking about arguably the best defensive catcher not named Johnny Bench in the history of the game, right? He's got approximately a .001% chance of throwing a ball into center field, and that might be overestimating it. I checked...Molina has made 62 errors in his career, a .995 fielding percentage. But has thrown out 41.6% of runners trying to steal on him. I have no doubt that you would be among the first to criticize what a dumb move it is to run on Molina if and when Hanson gets thrown out in your scenario, and rightly so, because it would be dumb. Probably why Clint didn't do it.
Listen, again, I'm not trying to bag on you. But this does nothing other than make you look like a bitter troll with some personal vendetta against Clint Hurdle. If you really have an issue with Hurdle, I suggest you stick to actual questionable decisions on which to criticize him.
It looked like to me Martinez had a huge lead off 1st and maybe even was running on Garcia's double and that's what allowed him to score, again aggressive baserunning putting pressure on defense, that's exactly how you score 2 runs on 4 hits, how many pitches should Hanson look at before running, seems to me a 1 and 1 count is a good count to run on, if Hanson steals second then he scores on Cervelli's hit. Of course he could have been thrown out but would we have been in any worse shape than what happened. How about a squeeze play with one down and Hanson on 3rd, couldn't try that either. Let's just wait for the base hit from the bottom of the line up that's the ticket. Scoring 1 run on 11 hits is just one of the many reasons I think Hurdles management style isn't working. His lack of hit an run anything to get this team going is just awful and defending him is going to get harder as the year goes on, I can promise you.
My argument and I think it's solid baseball is if you're having trouble scoring runs you have to put as much pressure on the defense as possible. Just heard that argument the other day on MLB network. Of course they may have something against Hurdle's style of management just like me.
I'm not a fan of trying to steal in the ninth with the tie run at 1B. It's a huge risk because that runner is vital and the out can't be afforded. They tried it a few games back with Frazier and he was thrown out to kill whatever chance they had in the 9th. At least they had the bases loaded with one out last night without risking getting the tie run thrown out stealing. And even tho Gosselin is a weak bat, Frazier was on deck and he's been one of their best hitters. I can't fault Hurdle for that inning.
How is this Hurdle's fault?
Let me explain it to you, he had Hanson on 1st base, when a team isn't scoring (let me remind you 1 run last nite) you have to put pressure on defense not play base to base. Hanson might have stole second and Molina might have thrown ball into center which could have let Hanson go to 3rd. Cards haven't been scoring runs just 4 hits tonight but they put pressure on you and create runs. A manager should know these simple things. If you get 11 hits and only scoring 1 run you're doing something wrong.
I'm really debating posting this, as I don't want it to seem argumentative. But, I'm going to anyway. No intention of ripping on you...just want to push you a bit on this.
First, IMO, the Cards didn't score runs by putting pressure on the defense. In the first inning, I was driving, so only listening on radio. But, it sounded to me like Fowler had a triple, that could easily have been ruled a double and an error. Regardless, not the result of pressure. He scored on an RBI FC to Bell, that should have been an RBI groundout. So, it's a wash.
Second, Martinez scored on an RBI double from Garcia. Aggressive base running, sure, but hardly the result of putting pressure on the defense. Lots of guys score from first on a double.
Third, Hanson moved to second base when Cervelli got his single. First and second, no outs. And you're upset that he didn't steal second base? He was there any way. Maybe you wanted him moving on the first pitch, so he would have scored on the Cervelli single? But, it's not that easy. Any good base stealer will tell you that you need a couple of pitches to figure out the pitcher's timing. It's not just a matter of first pitch...go! (Unless you're Billy Hamilton or Ricky Henderson, and Hanson is neither.)
Fourth, Molina might have thrown the ball into center field? You do know you're talking about arguably the best defensive catcher not named Johnny Bench in the history of the game, right? He's got approximately a .001% chance of throwing a ball into center field, and that might be overestimating it. I checked...Molina has made 62 errors in his career, a .995 fielding percentage. But has thrown out 41.6% of runners trying to steal on him. I have no doubt that you would be among the first to criticize what a dumb move it is to run on Molina if and when Hanson gets thrown out in your scenario, and rightly so, because it would be dumb. Probably why Clint didn't do it.
Listen, again, I'm not trying to bag on you. But this does nothing other than make you look like a bitter troll with some personal vendetta against Clint Hurdle. If you really have an issue with Hurdle, I suggest you stick to actual questionable decisions on which to criticize him.
It looked like to me Martinez had a huge lead off 1st and maybe even was running on Garcia's double and that's what allowed him to score, again aggressive baserunning putting pressure on defense, that's exactly how you score 2 runs on 4 hits, how many pitches should Hanson look at before running, seems to me a 1 and 1 count is a good count to run on, if Hanson steals second then he scores on Cervelli's hit. Of course he could have been thrown out but would we have been in any worse shape than what happened. How about a squeeze play with one down and Hanson on 3rd, couldn't try that either. Let's just wait for the base hit from the bottom of the line up that's the ticket. Scoring 1 run on 11 hits is just one of the many reasons I think Hurdles management style isn't working. His lack of hit an run anything to get this team going is just awful and defending him is going to get harder as the year goes on, I can promise you.
My argument and I think it's solid baseball is if you're having trouble scoring runs you have to put as much pressure on the defense as possible. Just heard that argument the other day on MLB network. Of course they may have something against Hurdle's style of management just like me.
I'm not a fan of trying to steal in the ninth with the tie run at 1B. It's a huge risk because that runner is vital and the out can't be afforded. They tried it a few games back with Frazier and he was thrown out to kill whatever chance they had in the 9th. At least they had the bases loaded with one out last night without risking getting the tie run thrown out stealing. And even tho Gosselin is a weak bat, Frazier was on deck and he's been one of their best hitters. I can't fault Hurdle for that inning.
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rucker59@gmail.com
4-18 Bucs at Cards
7A4844445062414845404F48290 wrote: Thanks Obama Hurdle!
"Putting pressure on the defense" sounds a lot like how we always get caught stealing or leading off first base, or what got our 3B coach from last season fired. At least we get to complain either way!
Maybe, but Skinny has a valid point. I was totally frustrated in Boston, 1 run down, no outs and two burners on 1st and 2nd (Hanson and Polanco I believe). We're challenged beyond belief to score any runs. We need 1 for extras, two to win.
What does Clint do? The obvious: puts Jordy into a bunt. What happened - Jordy pops up right behind home plate. I was going crazy before the 1st pitch to Jordy because I had no doubt Clint would try to bunt.
I was going crazy not because I was sure Jordy would mess up the execution, I was frustrated that Clint would willingly give up an out even in perfect execution. We got the worse possible result (an out and no advance) but even proper execution was not acceptable for this team.
Clint, in my VHO, made it easy on Boston. Why not double steal? It forces Boston to execute. It has the potential to materially impact the Pirates changes to win (2 runners in scoring position with no outs) if successful AND if if fails we still have the tying run in scoring position with the same 1 out the bunt guaranteed.
Against the Flubs Clint used a double steal and scored a critical run. My guess is there will not be 5 more times this season Clint forces the D to execute. We virtually never used our speed to impact the game. If we had big bats I could see the rational. But we definitely do not. As Speedy said, the Pirates are challenged to score anything yet Clint plays base to base. That puts all the pressure on the Pirates bats.
"Putting pressure on the defense" sounds a lot like how we always get caught stealing or leading off first base, or what got our 3B coach from last season fired. At least we get to complain either way!
Maybe, but Skinny has a valid point. I was totally frustrated in Boston, 1 run down, no outs and two burners on 1st and 2nd (Hanson and Polanco I believe). We're challenged beyond belief to score any runs. We need 1 for extras, two to win.
What does Clint do? The obvious: puts Jordy into a bunt. What happened - Jordy pops up right behind home plate. I was going crazy before the 1st pitch to Jordy because I had no doubt Clint would try to bunt.
I was going crazy not because I was sure Jordy would mess up the execution, I was frustrated that Clint would willingly give up an out even in perfect execution. We got the worse possible result (an out and no advance) but even proper execution was not acceptable for this team.
Clint, in my VHO, made it easy on Boston. Why not double steal? It forces Boston to execute. It has the potential to materially impact the Pirates changes to win (2 runners in scoring position with no outs) if successful AND if if fails we still have the tying run in scoring position with the same 1 out the bunt guaranteed.
Against the Flubs Clint used a double steal and scored a critical run. My guess is there will not be 5 more times this season Clint forces the D to execute. We virtually never used our speed to impact the game. If we had big bats I could see the rational. But we definitely do not. As Speedy said, the Pirates are challenged to score anything yet Clint plays base to base. That puts all the pressure on the Pirates bats.
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rucker59@gmail.com
4-18 Bucs at Cards
725F52434455420201300 wrote: Let me see Pirates get 11 hits score 1 run, Cards get 4 hits 2 runs, thats Cardinal baseball they take advantage of every little thing and Pirates and Hurdle squander every opportunity. I really dislike Gosselin awful at bat why is he on this team. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8rxPrV ... 8rxPrV-tn4
How is this Hurdle's fault?
Let me explain it to you, he had Hanson on 1st base, when a team isn't scoring (let me remind you 1 run last nite) you have to put pressure on defense not play base to base. Hanson might have stole second and Molina might have thrown ball into center which could have let Hanson go to 3rd. Cards haven't been scoring runs just 4 hits tonight but they put pressure on you and create runs. A manager should know these simple things. If you get 11 hits and only scoring 1 run you're doing something wrong.
I'm really debating posting this, as I don't want it to seem argumentative. But, I'm going to anyway. No intention of ripping on you...just want to push you a bit on this.
First, IMO, the Cards didn't score runs by putting pressure on the defense. In the first inning, I was driving, so only listening on radio. But, it sounded to me like Fowler had a triple, that could easily have been ruled a double and an error. Regardless, not the result of pressure. He scored on an RBI FC to Bell, that should have been an RBI groundout. So, it's a wash.
Second, Martinez scored on an RBI double from Garcia. Aggressive base running, sure, but hardly the result of putting pressure on the defense. Lots of guys score from first on a double.
Third, Hanson moved to second base when Cervelli got his single. First and second, no outs. And you're upset that he didn't steal second base? He was there any way. Maybe you wanted him moving on the first pitch, so he would have scored on the Cervelli single? But, it's not that easy. Any good base stealer will tell you that you need a couple of pitches to figure out the pitcher's timing. It's not just a matter of first pitch...go! (Unless you're Billy Hamilton or Ricky Henderson, and Hanson is neither.)
Fourth, Molina might have thrown the ball into center field? You do know you're talking about arguably the best defensive catcher not named Johnny Bench in the history of the game, right? He's got approximately a .001% chance of throwing a ball into center field, and that might be overestimating it. I checked...Molina has made 62 errors in his career, a .995 fielding percentage. But has thrown out 41.6% of runners trying to steal on him. I have no doubt that you would be among the first to criticize what a dumb move it is to run on Molina if and when Hanson gets thrown out in your scenario, and rightly so, because it would be dumb. Probably why Clint didn't do it.
Listen, again, I'm not trying to bag on you. But this does nothing other than make you look like a bitter troll with some personal vendetta against Clint Hurdle. If you really have an issue with Hurdle, I suggest you stick to actual questionable decisions on which to criticize him.
It looked like to me Martinez had a huge lead off 1st and maybe even was running on Garcia's double and that's what allowed him to score, again aggressive baserunning putting pressure on defense, that's exactly how you score 2 runs on 4 hits, how many pitches should Hanson look at before running, seems to me a 1 and 1 count is a good count to run on, if Hanson steals second then he scores on Cervelli's hit. Of course he could have been thrown out but would we have been in any worse shape than what happened. How about a squeeze play with one down and Hanson on 3rd, couldn't try that either. Let's just wait for the base hit from the bottom of the line up that's the ticket. Scoring 1 run on 11 hits is just one of the many reasons I think Hurdles management style isn't working. His lack of hit an run anything to get this team going is just awful and defending him is going to get harder as the year goes on, I can promise you.
My argument and I think it's solid baseball is if you're having trouble scoring runs you have to put as much pressure on the defense as possible. Just heard that argument the other day on MLB network. Of course they may have something against Hurdle's style of management just like me.
I'm not a fan of trying to steal in the ninth with the tie run at 1B. It's a huge risk because that runner is vital and the out can't be afforded. They tried it a few games back with Frazier and he was thrown out to kill whatever chance they had in the 9th. At least they had the bases loaded with one out last night without risking getting the tie run thrown out stealing. And even tho Gosselin is a weak bat, Frazier was on deck and he's been one of their best hitters. I can't fault Hurdle for that inning.
I was not able to watch last night so I can't comment on that situation. But generally I disagree that the tying run should not try to take 2nd base AS A RULE. Especially with small ball bats the Pirates are loaded with.
It's gotta be based on situation. If Clint inserts Hanson at 1st, a tough or ground ball pitcher is on the mound (likely in the 9th) I would be thinking steal all the way depending on the batter.
My post above deals with 2 runners on, 1 Down and no outs. Use your speed.
The Frazier attempt you reference was a hit and run I think, totally blown. Whatever was going on, Frazier had a terrible break and then a terrible slide.
How is this Hurdle's fault?
Let me explain it to you, he had Hanson on 1st base, when a team isn't scoring (let me remind you 1 run last nite) you have to put pressure on defense not play base to base. Hanson might have stole second and Molina might have thrown ball into center which could have let Hanson go to 3rd. Cards haven't been scoring runs just 4 hits tonight but they put pressure on you and create runs. A manager should know these simple things. If you get 11 hits and only scoring 1 run you're doing something wrong.
I'm really debating posting this, as I don't want it to seem argumentative. But, I'm going to anyway. No intention of ripping on you...just want to push you a bit on this.
First, IMO, the Cards didn't score runs by putting pressure on the defense. In the first inning, I was driving, so only listening on radio. But, it sounded to me like Fowler had a triple, that could easily have been ruled a double and an error. Regardless, not the result of pressure. He scored on an RBI FC to Bell, that should have been an RBI groundout. So, it's a wash.
Second, Martinez scored on an RBI double from Garcia. Aggressive base running, sure, but hardly the result of putting pressure on the defense. Lots of guys score from first on a double.
Third, Hanson moved to second base when Cervelli got his single. First and second, no outs. And you're upset that he didn't steal second base? He was there any way. Maybe you wanted him moving on the first pitch, so he would have scored on the Cervelli single? But, it's not that easy. Any good base stealer will tell you that you need a couple of pitches to figure out the pitcher's timing. It's not just a matter of first pitch...go! (Unless you're Billy Hamilton or Ricky Henderson, and Hanson is neither.)
Fourth, Molina might have thrown the ball into center field? You do know you're talking about arguably the best defensive catcher not named Johnny Bench in the history of the game, right? He's got approximately a .001% chance of throwing a ball into center field, and that might be overestimating it. I checked...Molina has made 62 errors in his career, a .995 fielding percentage. But has thrown out 41.6% of runners trying to steal on him. I have no doubt that you would be among the first to criticize what a dumb move it is to run on Molina if and when Hanson gets thrown out in your scenario, and rightly so, because it would be dumb. Probably why Clint didn't do it.
Listen, again, I'm not trying to bag on you. But this does nothing other than make you look like a bitter troll with some personal vendetta against Clint Hurdle. If you really have an issue with Hurdle, I suggest you stick to actual questionable decisions on which to criticize him.
It looked like to me Martinez had a huge lead off 1st and maybe even was running on Garcia's double and that's what allowed him to score, again aggressive baserunning putting pressure on defense, that's exactly how you score 2 runs on 4 hits, how many pitches should Hanson look at before running, seems to me a 1 and 1 count is a good count to run on, if Hanson steals second then he scores on Cervelli's hit. Of course he could have been thrown out but would we have been in any worse shape than what happened. How about a squeeze play with one down and Hanson on 3rd, couldn't try that either. Let's just wait for the base hit from the bottom of the line up that's the ticket. Scoring 1 run on 11 hits is just one of the many reasons I think Hurdles management style isn't working. His lack of hit an run anything to get this team going is just awful and defending him is going to get harder as the year goes on, I can promise you.
My argument and I think it's solid baseball is if you're having trouble scoring runs you have to put as much pressure on the defense as possible. Just heard that argument the other day on MLB network. Of course they may have something against Hurdle's style of management just like me.
I'm not a fan of trying to steal in the ninth with the tie run at 1B. It's a huge risk because that runner is vital and the out can't be afforded. They tried it a few games back with Frazier and he was thrown out to kill whatever chance they had in the 9th. At least they had the bases loaded with one out last night without risking getting the tie run thrown out stealing. And even tho Gosselin is a weak bat, Frazier was on deck and he's been one of their best hitters. I can't fault Hurdle for that inning.
I was not able to watch last night so I can't comment on that situation. But generally I disagree that the tying run should not try to take 2nd base AS A RULE. Especially with small ball bats the Pirates are loaded with.
It's gotta be based on situation. If Clint inserts Hanson at 1st, a tough or ground ball pitcher is on the mound (likely in the 9th) I would be thinking steal all the way depending on the batter.
My post above deals with 2 runners on, 1 Down and no outs. Use your speed.
The Frazier attempt you reference was a hit and run I think, totally blown. Whatever was going on, Frazier had a terrible break and then a terrible slide.