Neal is going to have to concede that this season is now lost. So gotta start looking for next year and beyond. What to do? Basically two approaches: the team is close, make a big run next year, or the division is too tough next couple of years so lets start "rebuilding" (still a good team, but the "present is not the future").
Under either approach, and knowing no one can truly be untouchable, who on this team would you build next year or the future around? It's a different way of looking at "who would you trade" because in some cases I might want to trade someone for the value but also want to build my team around.
Personally, I don't think the FO will 1) do enough to truly challenge next year, and 2) I think this club has good talent but some real deficiencies that have to be addressed.
My team to build around:
1) Surprise - Cutch. I'd extend him. I don't think he's going to bring enough value to justify trading him - he's had a great bounce back year that means more to the Pirates than other teams. I don't know what a 5 year deal could cost, but maybe $65-70M. Make this one investment for the team and the fans.
2) Harrison - if this season shows anything, we need better character. No more Jogging John Jaso's or Eyes in the Stars Starling. Harrison is not cheap, but he may be the best player on the team. And his presence in the clubhouse can't be measured.
3)Bell - nuff said. STAR in the making.
4)Mercer - if I can extend him at a decent price I do so, freeing up some ML prospects.
5) Tallion - the Future of the rotation
6) Kuhl - with his new found power I like him for either rotation or pen if need be.
7) Williams - I think he's showing a lot of potential.
8) Keller - hope on a prospect
9) Diaz - looks good to me
10) Biggest decision - I keep Glasnow
11) Hayes at 3rd?? I would need to know more, but if he's got a legit future I keep him.
Everybody else, I'm willing to move for needed pieces and to rebuild the farm. Plus, if I can do a significant upgrade at Pitcher I would be willing to move Williams or Kuhl. But I think the price to replace those guys might be steep and I think I can win with them.
Who to build around?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Who to build around?
VA.
I hate to think about rebuilding/retooling etc; but if we did; I have to say I am in 100% agreement with your list and your rationale. I do think that it will cost 100+ million to resign Cutch for 5 years, but I would do it in a heartbeat.
We would have a stacked farm system with the returns for Cole, Marte. Not sure if we want to trade Polanco. I'm still hesitant on that one.
I hate to think about rebuilding/retooling etc; but if we did; I have to say I am in 100% agreement with your list and your rationale. I do think that it will cost 100+ million to resign Cutch for 5 years, but I would do it in a heartbeat.
We would have a stacked farm system with the returns for Cole, Marte. Not sure if we want to trade Polanco. I'm still hesitant on that one.
Who to build around?
515640484651161A63444E424A4F0D404C4E230 wrote: Neal is going to have to concede that this season is now lost. So gotta start looking for next year and beyond. What to do? Basically two approaches: the team is close, make a big run next year, or the division is too tough next couple of years so lets start "rebuilding" (still a good team, but the "present is not the future").
Under either approach, and knowing no one can truly be untouchable, who on this team would you build next year or the future around? It's a different way of looking at "who would you trade" because in some cases I might want to trade someone for the value but also want to build my team around.
Personally, I don't think the FO will 1) do enough to truly challenge next year, and 2) I think this club has good talent but some real deficiencies that have to be addressed.
My team to build around:
1) Surprise - Cutch. I'd extend him. I don't think he's going to bring enough value to justify trading him - he's had a great bounce back year that means more to the Pirates than other teams. I don't know what a 5 year deal could cost, but maybe $65-70M. Make this one investment for the team and the fans.
2) Harrison - if this season shows anything, we need better character. No more Jogging John Jaso's or Eyes in the Stars Starling. Harrison is not cheap, but he may be the best player on the team. And his presence in the clubhouse can't be measured.
3)Bell - nuff said. STAR in the making.
4)Mercer - if I can extend him at a decent price I do so, freeing up some ML prospects.
5) Tallion - the Future of the rotation
6) Kuhl - with his new found power I like him for either rotation or pen if need be.
7) Williams - I think he's showing a lot of potential.
8) Keller - hope on a prospect
9) Diaz - looks good to me
10) Biggest decision - I keep Glasnow
11) Hayes at 3rd?? I would need to know more, but if he's got a legit future I keep him.
Everybody else, I'm willing to move for needed pieces and to rebuild the farm. Plus, if I can do a significant upgrade at Pitcher I would be willing to move Williams or Kuhl. But I think the price to replace those guys might be steep and I think I can win with them.
I can see your list of players as one to not deal right away, but for a true rebuild everyone needs to be available and whether they are dealt or not depends on the return.
Under either approach, and knowing no one can truly be untouchable, who on this team would you build next year or the future around? It's a different way of looking at "who would you trade" because in some cases I might want to trade someone for the value but also want to build my team around.
Personally, I don't think the FO will 1) do enough to truly challenge next year, and 2) I think this club has good talent but some real deficiencies that have to be addressed.
My team to build around:
1) Surprise - Cutch. I'd extend him. I don't think he's going to bring enough value to justify trading him - he's had a great bounce back year that means more to the Pirates than other teams. I don't know what a 5 year deal could cost, but maybe $65-70M. Make this one investment for the team and the fans.
2) Harrison - if this season shows anything, we need better character. No more Jogging John Jaso's or Eyes in the Stars Starling. Harrison is not cheap, but he may be the best player on the team. And his presence in the clubhouse can't be measured.
3)Bell - nuff said. STAR in the making.
4)Mercer - if I can extend him at a decent price I do so, freeing up some ML prospects.
5) Tallion - the Future of the rotation
6) Kuhl - with his new found power I like him for either rotation or pen if need be.
7) Williams - I think he's showing a lot of potential.
8) Keller - hope on a prospect
9) Diaz - looks good to me
10) Biggest decision - I keep Glasnow
11) Hayes at 3rd?? I would need to know more, but if he's got a legit future I keep him.
Everybody else, I'm willing to move for needed pieces and to rebuild the farm. Plus, if I can do a significant upgrade at Pitcher I would be willing to move Williams or Kuhl. But I think the price to replace those guys might be steep and I think I can win with them.
I can see your list of players as one to not deal right away, but for a true rebuild everyone needs to be available and whether they are dealt or not depends on the return.
Who to build around?
Yikes !
Cutch -trade him this off season . He is a solid player but not $20 mill worth. Never even had 100 RBI. I like him don`t get me wrong .
We should be able to get a nice return for him.
Glasnow is a closer in a starters uniform....Trade him and let that team deal with 1-4 years of crazy highs and lows
I like Harrison too.
Bell will be our Eddie Murray/Adrian Gonzoles type .Solid professional hitter.We get 5 more years of him before he gets too expensive and has to go.
We are not bad off. But we need better hitters in w/ RISP ....We suck at that and have for a long time ...The teams that win it all have solid pitchers and timely hitting. Its so easy that it is hard
Cutch -trade him this off season . He is a solid player but not $20 mill worth. Never even had 100 RBI. I like him don`t get me wrong .
We should be able to get a nice return for him.
Glasnow is a closer in a starters uniform....Trade him and let that team deal with 1-4 years of crazy highs and lows
I like Harrison too.
Bell will be our Eddie Murray/Adrian Gonzoles type .Solid professional hitter.We get 5 more years of him before he gets too expensive and has to go.
We are not bad off. But we need better hitters in w/ RISP ....We suck at that and have for a long time ...The teams that win it all have solid pitchers and timely hitting. Its so easy that it is hard
Who to build around?
4542545C5245020E77505A565E5B1954585A370 wrote: Neal is going to have to concede that this season is now lost. So gotta start looking for next year and beyond. What to do? Basically two approaches: the team is close, make a big run next year, or the division is too tough next couple of years so lets start "rebuilding" (still a good team, but the "present is not the future").
Under either approach, and knowing no one can truly be untouchable, who on this team would you build next year or the future around? It's a different way of looking at "who would you trade" because in some cases I might want to trade someone for the value but also want to build my team around.
Personally, I don't think the FO will 1) do enough to truly challenge next year, and 2) I think this club has good talent but some real deficiencies that have to be addressed.
My team to build around:
1) Surprise - Cutch. I'd extend him. I don't think he's going to bring enough value to justify trading him - he's had a great bounce back year that means more to the Pirates than other teams. I don't know what a 5 year deal could cost, but maybe $65-70M. Make this one investment for the team and the fans.
2) Harrison - if this season shows anything, we need better character. No more Jogging John Jaso's or Eyes in the Stars Starling. Harrison is not cheap, but he may be the best player on the team. And his presence in the clubhouse can't be measured.
3)Bell - nuff said. STAR in the making.
4)Mercer - if I can extend him at a decent price I do so, freeing up some ML prospects.
5) Tallion - the Future of the rotation
6) Kuhl - with his new found power I like him for either rotation or pen if need be.
7) Williams - I think he's showing a lot of potential.
8) Keller - hope on a prospect
9) Diaz - looks good to me
10) Biggest decision - I keep Glasnow
11) Hayes at 3rd?? I would need to know more, but if he's got a legit future I keep him.
Everybody else, I'm willing to move for needed pieces and to rebuild the farm. Plus, if I can do a significant upgrade at Pitcher I would be willing to move Williams or Kuhl. But I think the price to replace those guys might be steep and I think I can win with them.
You trade Cutch in a hurray. I deal him in the next few days for a nice return. You won't be resigning him. Let's be honest. Letting him walk for nothing would be criminal. Kuhl is nothing to even consider putting on a list to build around. A pitcher with a high 4 ERA in the NL doesn't do much for me. You need to upgrade him in the rotation. He is at best a five, not a four. You don't get much in return for either. Williams - potential is a word that gets coaches, GMs and managers fired more than hired.
Under either approach, and knowing no one can truly be untouchable, who on this team would you build next year or the future around? It's a different way of looking at "who would you trade" because in some cases I might want to trade someone for the value but also want to build my team around.
Personally, I don't think the FO will 1) do enough to truly challenge next year, and 2) I think this club has good talent but some real deficiencies that have to be addressed.
My team to build around:
1) Surprise - Cutch. I'd extend him. I don't think he's going to bring enough value to justify trading him - he's had a great bounce back year that means more to the Pirates than other teams. I don't know what a 5 year deal could cost, but maybe $65-70M. Make this one investment for the team and the fans.
2) Harrison - if this season shows anything, we need better character. No more Jogging John Jaso's or Eyes in the Stars Starling. Harrison is not cheap, but he may be the best player on the team. And his presence in the clubhouse can't be measured.
3)Bell - nuff said. STAR in the making.
4)Mercer - if I can extend him at a decent price I do so, freeing up some ML prospects.
5) Tallion - the Future of the rotation
6) Kuhl - with his new found power I like him for either rotation or pen if need be.
7) Williams - I think he's showing a lot of potential.
8) Keller - hope on a prospect
9) Diaz - looks good to me
10) Biggest decision - I keep Glasnow
11) Hayes at 3rd?? I would need to know more, but if he's got a legit future I keep him.
Everybody else, I'm willing to move for needed pieces and to rebuild the farm. Plus, if I can do a significant upgrade at Pitcher I would be willing to move Williams or Kuhl. But I think the price to replace those guys might be steep and I think I can win with them.
You trade Cutch in a hurray. I deal him in the next few days for a nice return. You won't be resigning him. Let's be honest. Letting him walk for nothing would be criminal. Kuhl is nothing to even consider putting on a list to build around. A pitcher with a high 4 ERA in the NL doesn't do much for me. You need to upgrade him in the rotation. He is at best a five, not a four. You don't get much in return for either. Williams - potential is a word that gets coaches, GMs and managers fired more than hired.
Who to build around?
No question there's talent on this team. Just not enough to compete for a championship right now. Bring this same roster back next year and things could unfold very differently.
With another year of experience and maturation guys like Polanco, Bell, Kuhl, Williams, Glasnow, Osuna, Frazier and Diaz could be difference makers. Add that to the established talents of Cutch, Marte, JHay, Mercer, Taillon, Nova, Cole and Rivero and maybe the Bucs have a chance to be pretty good.
On the other hand maybe those young guys will never be better than what they've shown so far, and our "established" players will start to age badly. No matter. With the way Nutting operates there will never be a sufficient infusion of established talent from outside of the organization to make up for poor drafting or bad trades. Every year with current ownership will mean that we have to hope everything falls just right for the Pirates to compete for a championship. We'll have to be lucky, very lucky.
Consequently, building around any select core of players and rebuilding is a lot like playing talent roulette. Sure Bell, Taillon and Rivero look like pretty good bets to be outstanding major leaguers for a long time, but surrounding them with 'undervalued' bargain basement complementary players (as the Pirates no doubt will) is a strategy based more on luck than talent.
Who to build around? Does it really matter?
With another year of experience and maturation guys like Polanco, Bell, Kuhl, Williams, Glasnow, Osuna, Frazier and Diaz could be difference makers. Add that to the established talents of Cutch, Marte, JHay, Mercer, Taillon, Nova, Cole and Rivero and maybe the Bucs have a chance to be pretty good.
On the other hand maybe those young guys will never be better than what they've shown so far, and our "established" players will start to age badly. No matter. With the way Nutting operates there will never be a sufficient infusion of established talent from outside of the organization to make up for poor drafting or bad trades. Every year with current ownership will mean that we have to hope everything falls just right for the Pirates to compete for a championship. We'll have to be lucky, very lucky.
Consequently, building around any select core of players and rebuilding is a lot like playing talent roulette. Sure Bell, Taillon and Rivero look like pretty good bets to be outstanding major leaguers for a long time, but surrounding them with 'undervalued' bargain basement complementary players (as the Pirates no doubt will) is a strategy based more on luck than talent.
Who to build around? Does it really matter?
Who to build around?
Quail's observations are probably a pretty realistic evaluation. I do expect Cutch to go, most likely not until the off-season, though. They won't risk getting nothing for him. Cole probably has another year. They certainly want to keep hope alive for next year, but he'll go as well in that off-season. Again, they can't risk losing him for nothing.
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Bobster21
Who to build around?
795D494144280 wrote: No question there's talent on this team. Just not enough to compete for a championship right now. Bring this same roster back next year and things could unfold very differently.
With another year of experience and maturation guys like Polanco, Bell, Kuhl, Williams, Glasnow, Osuna, Frazier and Diaz could be difference makers. Add that to the established talents of Cutch, Marte, JHay, Mercer, Taillon, Nova, Cole and Rivero and maybe the Bucs have a chance to be pretty good.
On the other hand maybe those young guys will never be better than what they've shown so far, and our "established" players will start to age badly. No matter. With the way Nutting operates there will never be a sufficient infusion of established talent from outside of the organization to make up for poor drafting or bad trades. Every year with current ownership will mean that we have to hope everything falls just right for the Pirates to compete for a championship. We'll have to be lucky, very lucky.
Consequently, building around any select core of players and rebuilding is a lot like playing talent roulette. Sure Bell, Taillon and Rivero look like pretty good bets to be outstanding major leaguers for a long time, but surrounding them with 'undervalued' bargain basement complementary players (as the Pirates no doubt will) is a strategy based more on luck than talent.
Who to build around? Does it really matter?
I agree. I see a young rotation that can get better with a year of experience and doesn't cost much collectively. I see a decent line up with a star (Cutch), a budding star (Bell), reliable veterans (Harrison, Mercer), raw talent that needs to be harnessed (Marte, Polanco), and a potential superstar reliever (Rivero). Catching should be good with Cervelli and Diaz. Seems like a FO more dedicated to winning could do a lot with that roster. Add a good 3Bman and a few relievers and beef up the bench. And find a manager more intent on winning games.
With another year of experience and maturation guys like Polanco, Bell, Kuhl, Williams, Glasnow, Osuna, Frazier and Diaz could be difference makers. Add that to the established talents of Cutch, Marte, JHay, Mercer, Taillon, Nova, Cole and Rivero and maybe the Bucs have a chance to be pretty good.
On the other hand maybe those young guys will never be better than what they've shown so far, and our "established" players will start to age badly. No matter. With the way Nutting operates there will never be a sufficient infusion of established talent from outside of the organization to make up for poor drafting or bad trades. Every year with current ownership will mean that we have to hope everything falls just right for the Pirates to compete for a championship. We'll have to be lucky, very lucky.
Consequently, building around any select core of players and rebuilding is a lot like playing talent roulette. Sure Bell, Taillon and Rivero look like pretty good bets to be outstanding major leaguers for a long time, but surrounding them with 'undervalued' bargain basement complementary players (as the Pirates no doubt will) is a strategy based more on luck than talent.
Who to build around? Does it really matter?
I agree. I see a young rotation that can get better with a year of experience and doesn't cost much collectively. I see a decent line up with a star (Cutch), a budding star (Bell), reliable veterans (Harrison, Mercer), raw talent that needs to be harnessed (Marte, Polanco), and a potential superstar reliever (Rivero). Catching should be good with Cervelli and Diaz. Seems like a FO more dedicated to winning could do a lot with that roster. Add a good 3Bman and a few relievers and beef up the bench. And find a manager more intent on winning games.
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BucsFaninGA
Who to build around?
I concur, that we have a good nucleus...But I really think we need a thirdbaseman! I really don't think Kang will ever play in the MLB again. I would resign Cutch....While I think Jaso is a goo fella, he just is not giving us much value in return in the hitting department. Another signed free-agent that is a nice complementary piece to a bench, but no threat as a starting player. Bucs front office is one cheap organization plan and simple. Wishing for the best and a competitive team and hopefully for Glasnow to finally turn the corner while a couple young arms mature into serviceable bullpen help. Front office is not going to be active in the free-agent market...
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Who to build around?
2B29333523460 wrote: Quail's observations are probably a pretty realistic evaluation. I do expect Cutch to go, most likely not until the off-season, though. They won't risk getting nothing for him. Cole probably has another year. They certainly want to keep hope alive for next year, but he'll go as well in that off-season. Again, they can't risk losing him for nothing.
The floor of what they should get for him would be the 1st round draft pick of a potential qualifying offer.
The floor of what they should get for him would be the 1st round draft pick of a potential qualifying offer.