565D55595C5D460305724B535A5D5D1C515D320 wrote: Huntington doesn't believe in "windows of opportunity". He needs to change that thinking. Especially, watching the Indians, Astros, and Royals the last few years.
that is another reason why he should not have had his contract extended.
One window closed after 2015 and it has [highlight]not[highlight][highlight][/highlight][/highlight][/highlight]re-opened yet (at least the way the team is operating).
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
Ozuna hurts us only if we really care to get serious and there's no indication that's the case.
I think we have a shot at .500 as built. Need some breaks.
A cleanup hitting 3bman, legit solid starter and a replacement setup man performing like nicasio and we have a shot.
That would take about 20-25 million commitment for 2018, I believe. Cutch is 100% sure to come off the books next year to offset 2019.
If nutting really needs to offset some of that 25 for 2018, you could look to salary dump SRod, a contender with playoff hopes would take him on in a dump, guaranteed
I think we have a shot at .500 as built. Need some breaks.
A cleanup hitting 3bman, legit solid starter and a replacement setup man performing like nicasio and we have a shot.
That would take about 20-25 million commitment for 2018, I believe. Cutch is 100% sure to come off the books next year to offset 2019.
If nutting really needs to offset some of that 25 for 2018, you could look to salary dump SRod, a contender with playoff hopes would take him on in a dump, guaranteed
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
It's now Wednesday night of the winter meetings.
The Pirates have made no moves. It appears that other teams are starting to firm up their plans and that some of the players who have been traded or signed as free agents should actually help to define who would be interested in the pieces that the Pirates have to offer.
I continue to advocate that the Pirates go into sell mode.
Kinsler is gone to the Angels, Harrison is now one of the better 2nd basemen who is available on a 'reasonable' contract, and he offers versatility.
Cutch is no Stanton or Ozuna, but with both of them now elsewhere, someone who needs an outfielder may be willing to consider Cutch as an alternative.
Cole has value. Trade him now while he still has 2 years of control remaining.
Rivero. Nearly every middle reliever and semi-closer is landing a good free agent contract; multiple years and $7+ mil/year. With the season Rivero just had, the number of years he is under control, and the fact that next year he will earn less than $4 mil, he should be a very tradable asset. If you want to get something in return, you need to offer players who have value.
Nova can be an innings eater for someone. With his salary, he too has some value.
Geez, I actually believe someone may be willing to take Hudson if the Pirates paid a mil and accepted a very low return.
Freese and Rodriguez are both expensive (to the Pirates). Trade Freese at this point, but if necessary, take the change that Rodriguez could rebound a bit and perhaps find someone who would take his salary from the Bucs.
While I dislike Polanco, he is still cheap and I doubt that he returns much. Pirates may need to see if he can produce this year. If he does, consider moving him when he is hot.
I like Marte. I envision him as the CF'er for the near-term. But, if he produces well next year, perhaps trade him in July for real talent.
What I don't trade are the cheap starting pitchers (Tallion, Kuhl, Wililams, Brault, the minor league guys) or the cheap position players (e.g. Moroff, Frazier and Bell).
Retooling and rebuilding offers a lot of pain, but it also offers 'potential' hope for the future. I lived through the 20 years of misery. I am ready to accept more, as long as the Bucs appear that they have a path forward. Today's path is murky and directionless. I don't want another 2016 or 2017.
Lastly, NH --- please do something with the international bonus pool money. Please.
The Pirates have made no moves. It appears that other teams are starting to firm up their plans and that some of the players who have been traded or signed as free agents should actually help to define who would be interested in the pieces that the Pirates have to offer.
I continue to advocate that the Pirates go into sell mode.
Kinsler is gone to the Angels, Harrison is now one of the better 2nd basemen who is available on a 'reasonable' contract, and he offers versatility.
Cutch is no Stanton or Ozuna, but with both of them now elsewhere, someone who needs an outfielder may be willing to consider Cutch as an alternative.
Cole has value. Trade him now while he still has 2 years of control remaining.
Rivero. Nearly every middle reliever and semi-closer is landing a good free agent contract; multiple years and $7+ mil/year. With the season Rivero just had, the number of years he is under control, and the fact that next year he will earn less than $4 mil, he should be a very tradable asset. If you want to get something in return, you need to offer players who have value.
Nova can be an innings eater for someone. With his salary, he too has some value.
Geez, I actually believe someone may be willing to take Hudson if the Pirates paid a mil and accepted a very low return.
Freese and Rodriguez are both expensive (to the Pirates). Trade Freese at this point, but if necessary, take the change that Rodriguez could rebound a bit and perhaps find someone who would take his salary from the Bucs.
While I dislike Polanco, he is still cheap and I doubt that he returns much. Pirates may need to see if he can produce this year. If he does, consider moving him when he is hot.
I like Marte. I envision him as the CF'er for the near-term. But, if he produces well next year, perhaps trade him in July for real talent.
What I don't trade are the cheap starting pitchers (Tallion, Kuhl, Wililams, Brault, the minor league guys) or the cheap position players (e.g. Moroff, Frazier and Bell).
Retooling and rebuilding offers a lot of pain, but it also offers 'potential' hope for the future. I lived through the 20 years of misery. I am ready to accept more, as long as the Bucs appear that they have a path forward. Today's path is murky and directionless. I don't want another 2016 or 2017.
Lastly, NH --- please do something with the international bonus pool money. Please.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
1D31393E3512253323500 wrote: It's now Wednesday night of the winter meetings.
The Pirates have made no moves. It appears that other teams are starting to firm up their plans and that some of the players who have been traded or signed as free agents should actually help to define who would be interested in the pieces that the Pirates have to offer.
I continue to advocate that the Pirates go into sell mode.
Kinsler is gone to the Angels, Harrison is now one of the better 2nd basemen who is available on a 'reasonable' contract, and he offers versatility.
Cutch is no Stanton or Ozuna, but with both of them now elsewhere, someone who needs an outfielder may be willing to consider Cutch as an alternative.
Cole has value. Trade him now while he still has 2 years of control remaining.
Rivero. Nearly every middle reliever and semi-closer is landing a good free agent contract; multiple years and $7+ mil/year. With the season Rivero just had, the number of years he is under control, and the fact that next year he will earn less than $4 mil, he should be a very tradable asset. If you want to get something in return, you need to offer players who have value.
Nova can be an innings eater for someone. With his salary, he too has some value.
Geez, I actually believe someone may be willing to take Hudson if the Pirates paid a mil and accepted a very low return.
Freese and Rodriguez are both expensive (to the Pirates). Trade Freese at this point, but if necessary, take the change that Rodriguez could rebound a bit and perhaps find someone who would take his salary from the Bucs.
While I dislike Polanco, he is still cheap and I doubt that he returns much. Pirates may need to see if he can produce this year. If he does, consider moving him when he is hot.
I like Marte. I envision him as the CF'er for the near-term. But, if he produces well next year, perhaps trade him in July for real talent.
What I don't trade are the cheap starting pitchers (Tallion, Kuhl, Wililams, Brault, the minor league guys) or the cheap position players (e.g. Moroff, Frazier and Bell).
Retooling and rebuilding offers a lot of pain, but it also offers 'potential' hope for the future. I lived through the 20 years of misery. I am ready to accept more, as long as the Bucs appear that they have a path forward. Today's path is murky and directionless. I don't want another 2016 or 2017.
Lastly, NH --- please do something with the international bonus pool money. Please.
I'm scared with the talk of Harrison to the Muts. The last time we traded our starting second baseman, we got garbage from them. So, who is the 2017-18 edition of John Neise?
The Pirates have made no moves. It appears that other teams are starting to firm up their plans and that some of the players who have been traded or signed as free agents should actually help to define who would be interested in the pieces that the Pirates have to offer.
I continue to advocate that the Pirates go into sell mode.
Kinsler is gone to the Angels, Harrison is now one of the better 2nd basemen who is available on a 'reasonable' contract, and he offers versatility.
Cutch is no Stanton or Ozuna, but with both of them now elsewhere, someone who needs an outfielder may be willing to consider Cutch as an alternative.
Cole has value. Trade him now while he still has 2 years of control remaining.
Rivero. Nearly every middle reliever and semi-closer is landing a good free agent contract; multiple years and $7+ mil/year. With the season Rivero just had, the number of years he is under control, and the fact that next year he will earn less than $4 mil, he should be a very tradable asset. If you want to get something in return, you need to offer players who have value.
Nova can be an innings eater for someone. With his salary, he too has some value.
Geez, I actually believe someone may be willing to take Hudson if the Pirates paid a mil and accepted a very low return.
Freese and Rodriguez are both expensive (to the Pirates). Trade Freese at this point, but if necessary, take the change that Rodriguez could rebound a bit and perhaps find someone who would take his salary from the Bucs.
While I dislike Polanco, he is still cheap and I doubt that he returns much. Pirates may need to see if he can produce this year. If he does, consider moving him when he is hot.
I like Marte. I envision him as the CF'er for the near-term. But, if he produces well next year, perhaps trade him in July for real talent.
What I don't trade are the cheap starting pitchers (Tallion, Kuhl, Wililams, Brault, the minor league guys) or the cheap position players (e.g. Moroff, Frazier and Bell).
Retooling and rebuilding offers a lot of pain, but it also offers 'potential' hope for the future. I lived through the 20 years of misery. I am ready to accept more, as long as the Bucs appear that they have a path forward. Today's path is murky and directionless. I don't want another 2016 or 2017.
Lastly, NH --- please do something with the international bonus pool money. Please.
I'm scared with the talk of Harrison to the Muts. The last time we traded our starting second baseman, we got garbage from them. So, who is the 2017-18 edition of John Neise?
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
44545562747478170 wrote: It's now Wednesday night of the winter meetings.
The Pirates have made no moves. It appears that other teams are starting to firm up their plans and that some of the players who have been traded or signed as free agents should actually help to define who would be interested in the pieces that the Pirates have to offer.
I continue to advocate that the Pirates go into sell mode.
Kinsler is gone to the Angels, Harrison is now one of the better 2nd basemen who is available on a 'reasonable' contract, and he offers versatility.
Cutch is no Stanton or Ozuna, but with both of them now elsewhere, someone who needs an outfielder may be willing to consider Cutch as an alternative.
Cole has value. Trade him now while he still has 2 years of control remaining.
Rivero. Nearly every middle reliever and semi-closer is landing a good free agent contract; multiple years and $7+ mil/year. With the season Rivero just had, the number of years he is under control, and the fact that next year he will earn less than $4 mil, he should be a very tradable asset. If you want to get something in return, you need to offer players who have value.
Nova can be an innings eater for someone. With his salary, he too has some value.
Geez, I actually believe someone may be willing to take Hudson if the Pirates paid a mil and accepted a very low return.
Freese and Rodriguez are both expensive (to the Pirates). Trade Freese at this point, but if necessary, take the change that Rodriguez could rebound a bit and perhaps find someone who would take his salary from the Bucs.
While I dislike Polanco, he is still cheap and I doubt that he returns much. Pirates may need to see if he can produce this year. If he does, consider moving him when he is hot.
I like Marte. I envision him as the CF'er for the near-term. But, if he produces well next year, perhaps trade him in July for real talent.
What I don't trade are the cheap starting pitchers (Tallion, Kuhl, Wililams, Brault, the minor league guys) or the cheap position players (e.g. Moroff, Frazier and Bell).
Retooling and rebuilding offers a lot of pain, but it also offers 'potential' hope for the future. I lived through the 20 years of misery. I am ready to accept more, as long as the Bucs appear that they have a path forward. Today's path is murky and directionless. I don't want another 2016 or 2017.
Lastly, NH --- please do something with the international bonus pool money. Please.
I'm scared with the talk of Harrison to the Muts. The last time we traded our starting second baseman, we got garbage from them. So, who is the 2017-18 edition of John Neise?
Apparently Matt Harvey. Who knows...maybe they’ll give us Syndergaard straight up for Harrison. ::)
The Pirates have made no moves. It appears that other teams are starting to firm up their plans and that some of the players who have been traded or signed as free agents should actually help to define who would be interested in the pieces that the Pirates have to offer.
I continue to advocate that the Pirates go into sell mode.
Kinsler is gone to the Angels, Harrison is now one of the better 2nd basemen who is available on a 'reasonable' contract, and he offers versatility.
Cutch is no Stanton or Ozuna, but with both of them now elsewhere, someone who needs an outfielder may be willing to consider Cutch as an alternative.
Cole has value. Trade him now while he still has 2 years of control remaining.
Rivero. Nearly every middle reliever and semi-closer is landing a good free agent contract; multiple years and $7+ mil/year. With the season Rivero just had, the number of years he is under control, and the fact that next year he will earn less than $4 mil, he should be a very tradable asset. If you want to get something in return, you need to offer players who have value.
Nova can be an innings eater for someone. With his salary, he too has some value.
Geez, I actually believe someone may be willing to take Hudson if the Pirates paid a mil and accepted a very low return.
Freese and Rodriguez are both expensive (to the Pirates). Trade Freese at this point, but if necessary, take the change that Rodriguez could rebound a bit and perhaps find someone who would take his salary from the Bucs.
While I dislike Polanco, he is still cheap and I doubt that he returns much. Pirates may need to see if he can produce this year. If he does, consider moving him when he is hot.
I like Marte. I envision him as the CF'er for the near-term. But, if he produces well next year, perhaps trade him in July for real talent.
What I don't trade are the cheap starting pitchers (Tallion, Kuhl, Wililams, Brault, the minor league guys) or the cheap position players (e.g. Moroff, Frazier and Bell).
Retooling and rebuilding offers a lot of pain, but it also offers 'potential' hope for the future. I lived through the 20 years of misery. I am ready to accept more, as long as the Bucs appear that they have a path forward. Today's path is murky and directionless. I don't want another 2016 or 2017.
Lastly, NH --- please do something with the international bonus pool money. Please.
I'm scared with the talk of Harrison to the Muts. The last time we traded our starting second baseman, we got garbage from them. So, who is the 2017-18 edition of John Neise?
Apparently Matt Harvey. Who knows...maybe they’ll give us Syndergaard straight up for Harrison. ::)
-
Speedloader88
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:04 am
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
Interesting Boras statement:
"There's a franchise where their franchise value has just quadrupled since they bought it. Ownership might decide to take a different track on the road to playoffville. We'll see." ~Post Gazette, Biertempfel Dec. 13, 2017
Now that throw in quote at the end of the article seems to have been inserted for a reason. Boras can make outlandish claims, but always with a mind of increasing negotiating power. To suggest the Pirates may operate differently AND call them out on their franchise value may be a play of some sort. Thoughts?
"There's a franchise where their franchise value has just quadrupled since they bought it. Ownership might decide to take a different track on the road to playoffville. We'll see." ~Post Gazette, Biertempfel Dec. 13, 2017
Now that throw in quote at the end of the article seems to have been inserted for a reason. Boras can make outlandish claims, but always with a mind of increasing negotiating power. To suggest the Pirates may operate differently AND call them out on their franchise value may be a play of some sort. Thoughts?
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
The suspense and excitement of the Rule V draft is almost to much for me to bear.
Oh well, back to work.
Oh well, back to work.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
4764717170787B757071662C2C140 wrote: Interesting Boras statement:
"There's a franchise where their franchise value has just quadrupled since they bought it. Ownership might decide to take a different track on the road to playoffville. We'll see." ~Post Gazette, Biertempfel Dec. 13, 2017
Now that throw in quote at the end of the article seems to have been inserted for a reason. Boras can make outlandish claims, but always with a mind of increasing negotiating power. To suggest the Pirates may operate differently AND call them out on their franchise value may be a play of some sort. Thoughts?
I don't know what that means either. Boras also said that Cole is wanted by many teams but he hasn't heard any names in return. I also don't know why Boras matters is Cole trade talks.
"There's a franchise where their franchise value has just quadrupled since they bought it. Ownership might decide to take a different track on the road to playoffville. We'll see." ~Post Gazette, Biertempfel Dec. 13, 2017
Now that throw in quote at the end of the article seems to have been inserted for a reason. Boras can make outlandish claims, but always with a mind of increasing negotiating power. To suggest the Pirates may operate differently AND call them out on their franchise value may be a play of some sort. Thoughts?
I don't know what that means either. Boras also said that Cole is wanted by many teams but he hasn't heard any names in return. I also don't know why Boras matters is Cole trade talks.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
7F5C49494840434D48495E14142C0 wrote: Interesting Boras statement:
"There's a franchise where their franchise value has just quadrupled since they bought it. Ownership might decide to take a different track on the road to playoffville. We'll see." ~Post Gazette, Biertempfel Dec. 13, 2017
Now that throw in quote at the end of the article seems to have been inserted for a reason. Boras can make outlandish claims, but always with a mind of increasing negotiating power. To suggest the Pirates may operate differently AND call them out on their franchise value may be a play of some sort. Thoughts?
Could be us -- here is a post I made earlier this year:
Some of the moves being made (or not made) really do make you question ownership's intent. It is almost like they don't care about winning (championships).
In 2011, Forbes calculated the Pirates estimated value at $304 million, which was last in MLB. In 2017, Forbes estimated the Pirates value at $ 1.25 billion, good for 17th in the MLB. It took the Bucs over 130 years to get to a $300 million valuation, but they increased an astounding $1 billion in just 6 years. Now, this doesn't mean the financial statements reflect this level of worth, but it does predict what a motivated buyer might be willing to pay for the team.
Try finding another investment that would yield that level of return. Maybe that is why Nutting wants ownership of this team.
We need a passion owner, someone who is willing to throw money at the team like one of us might throw at a motorboat. I would love to hear him explain how ownership couldn't handle a $20 million pay increase for a run at a title.
Management failed to improve the team leading into 2016 and again in 2017. The moment of truth is approaching. They either invest in improvement for 2018 or they lose all credibility with me that they are actually in It to win. Perhaps it is just a long term investment for an owner who lacks any passion for the team he owns.
"There's a franchise where their franchise value has just quadrupled since they bought it. Ownership might decide to take a different track on the road to playoffville. We'll see." ~Post Gazette, Biertempfel Dec. 13, 2017
Now that throw in quote at the end of the article seems to have been inserted for a reason. Boras can make outlandish claims, but always with a mind of increasing negotiating power. To suggest the Pirates may operate differently AND call them out on their franchise value may be a play of some sort. Thoughts?
Could be us -- here is a post I made earlier this year:
Some of the moves being made (or not made) really do make you question ownership's intent. It is almost like they don't care about winning (championships).
In 2011, Forbes calculated the Pirates estimated value at $304 million, which was last in MLB. In 2017, Forbes estimated the Pirates value at $ 1.25 billion, good for 17th in the MLB. It took the Bucs over 130 years to get to a $300 million valuation, but they increased an astounding $1 billion in just 6 years. Now, this doesn't mean the financial statements reflect this level of worth, but it does predict what a motivated buyer might be willing to pay for the team.
Try finding another investment that would yield that level of return. Maybe that is why Nutting wants ownership of this team.
We need a passion owner, someone who is willing to throw money at the team like one of us might throw at a motorboat. I would love to hear him explain how ownership couldn't handle a $20 million pay increase for a run at a title.
Management failed to improve the team leading into 2016 and again in 2017. The moment of truth is approaching. They either invest in improvement for 2018 or they lose all credibility with me that they are actually in It to win. Perhaps it is just a long term investment for an owner who lacks any passion for the team he owns.
-
rucker59@gmail.com
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
7A594C4C4D4546484D4C5B1111290 wrote: Interesting Boras statement:
"There's a franchise where their franchise value has just quadrupled since they bought it. Ownership might decide to take a different track on the road to playoffville. We'll see." ~Post Gazette, Biertempfel Dec. 13, 2017
Now that throw in quote at the end of the article seems to have been inserted for a reason. Boras can make outlandish claims, but always with a mind of increasing negotiating power. To suggest the Pirates may operate differently AND call them out on their franchise value may be a play of some sort. Thoughts?
One of two possible meanings it seems to me:
1) Boras, as an agent with inside info, is letting Mr Nutting know that his MO is no secret and he's "encouraging" Nutting to play by the same rules as everyone else, or
2) (and I think a real possibility) he has inside info that MLB is prepared to get involved and "encourage" Mr Nutting to either run an MLB organization or get the hell out of baseball. We can be sure that MLB is not happy with some of the recent Pirate transactions.
No chance, imho, that Boras is announcing a new approach (i.e., spending more $$$) by Nutting.
"There's a franchise where their franchise value has just quadrupled since they bought it. Ownership might decide to take a different track on the road to playoffville. We'll see." ~Post Gazette, Biertempfel Dec. 13, 2017
Now that throw in quote at the end of the article seems to have been inserted for a reason. Boras can make outlandish claims, but always with a mind of increasing negotiating power. To suggest the Pirates may operate differently AND call them out on their franchise value may be a play of some sort. Thoughts?
One of two possible meanings it seems to me:
1) Boras, as an agent with inside info, is letting Mr Nutting know that his MO is no secret and he's "encouraging" Nutting to play by the same rules as everyone else, or
2) (and I think a real possibility) he has inside info that MLB is prepared to get involved and "encourage" Mr Nutting to either run an MLB organization or get the hell out of baseball. We can be sure that MLB is not happy with some of the recent Pirate transactions.
No chance, imho, that Boras is announcing a new approach (i.e., spending more $$$) by Nutting.