7161605741414D220 wrote: http://nyp.st/2jSmYdg
what the NY guy expects the Pirates could get. Very interesting seeing this perspective.
If this is something the Yanks would offer, NH can't turn that down. I don't think the Yanks would offer that at all. NH would probably ask for Torres along with Frazier and Adams which would negate the deal. I would drive Cole to NY myself if its Wade, Frazier, Adams and Cessa. I really don't think Cole is worth a Sonny Gray return. Why? Because he isn't Sonny Gray.
Cole and Gray have very similar numbers. Very, very similar. If Cole becomes available, he would be a top pitcher on the trade market.
I would love Frazier and Meadows together for years.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
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Which one if either gets traded this coming week
Meadows? The guy who can't play 100 games without pulling a hammy in his early 20s?
I'd look to trade Meadows as soon as possible, assuming he still has top prospect value
If you trade Cole, and I agree there are a few deals presented in this thread that I would trade him, you need to trade Cutch and JHay too.
NH is NOT the guy that should be rebuilding if that's the direction
I'd look to trade Meadows as soon as possible, assuming he still has top prospect value
If you trade Cole, and I agree there are a few deals presented in this thread that I would trade him, you need to trade Cutch and JHay too.
NH is NOT the guy that should be rebuilding if that's the direction
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
525B53424C360 wrote: Meadows? The guy who can't play 100 games without pulling a hammy in his early 20s?
I'd look to trade Meadows as soon as possible, assuming he still has top prospect value
If you trade Cole, and I agree there are a few deals presented in this thread that I would trade him, you need to trade Cutch and JHay too.
NH is NOT the guy that should be rebuilding if that's the direction
Ever heard of Marshon Lattimore? He is a rookie cornerback for the Saints. He tore his hamstring as a freshman at Ohio State and missed the entire season. He then missed his entire second season trying to recover. In his third season, he was first team All -American and was drafted in the first round. He will very possibly be the rookie defensive player of the year in the NFL this season. I would say give Meadows the benefit of the doubt. He might just be our next Cutch.
I'd look to trade Meadows as soon as possible, assuming he still has top prospect value
If you trade Cole, and I agree there are a few deals presented in this thread that I would trade him, you need to trade Cutch and JHay too.
NH is NOT the guy that should be rebuilding if that's the direction
Ever heard of Marshon Lattimore? He is a rookie cornerback for the Saints. He tore his hamstring as a freshman at Ohio State and missed the entire season. He then missed his entire second season trying to recover. In his third season, he was first team All -American and was drafted in the first round. He will very possibly be the rookie defensive player of the year in the NFL this season. I would say give Meadows the benefit of the doubt. He might just be our next Cutch.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
Meadows is cursed !!! Maybe too many PEDS.... 
He needs a full season of AAA for sure ..Hope bucs don`t move him up until 2019.
No need to go Buxton like, on him and bring up way way too early. Lets him get bats down low just like they did with Cutch ...get at bats .
He needs a full season of AAA for sure ..Hope bucs don`t move him up until 2019.
No need to go Buxton like, on him and bring up way way too early. Lets him get bats down low just like they did with Cutch ...get at bats .
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
6D6A465147240 wrote: Meadows? The guy who can't play 100 games without pulling a hammy in his early 20s?
I'd look to trade Meadows as soon as possible, assuming he still has top prospect value
If you trade Cole, and I agree there are a few deals presented in this thread that I would trade him, you need to trade Cutch and JHay too.
NH is NOT the guy that should be rebuilding if that's the direction
Ever heard of Marshon Lattimore? He is a rookie cornerback for the Saints. He tore his hamstring as a freshman at Ohio State and missed the entire season. He then missed his entire second season trying to recover. In his third season, he was first team All -American and was drafted in the first round. He will very possibly be the rookie defensive player of the year in the NFL this season. I would say give Meadows the benefit of the doubt. He might just be our next Cutch.
You're looking for a chance. Of course there's a chance. I'm just looking for what's a probable outcome. He's flagged already (rightfully so) and stock is dropping like a rock.
It may already be too late to get the kind if return a top prospect should snag, the cat is out of the bag. He wasn't on BAs top 20 of international league prospects end of 2017, let alone a top 20 list overall.
Hopefully he can stay on the field this year. Even if he did that, I would still look to trade him.
I'd look to trade Meadows as soon as possible, assuming he still has top prospect value
If you trade Cole, and I agree there are a few deals presented in this thread that I would trade him, you need to trade Cutch and JHay too.
NH is NOT the guy that should be rebuilding if that's the direction
Ever heard of Marshon Lattimore? He is a rookie cornerback for the Saints. He tore his hamstring as a freshman at Ohio State and missed the entire season. He then missed his entire second season trying to recover. In his third season, he was first team All -American and was drafted in the first round. He will very possibly be the rookie defensive player of the year in the NFL this season. I would say give Meadows the benefit of the doubt. He might just be our next Cutch.
You're looking for a chance. Of course there's a chance. I'm just looking for what's a probable outcome. He's flagged already (rightfully so) and stock is dropping like a rock.
It may already be too late to get the kind if return a top prospect should snag, the cat is out of the bag. He wasn't on BAs top 20 of international league prospects end of 2017, let alone a top 20 list overall.
Hopefully he can stay on the field this year. Even if he did that, I would still look to trade him.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
I agree with dmetz on Meadows. I advocated a trade last winter to add a starter. Now it may be too late to get the return you wanted.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
Seriously - I'm seeing years of losing in front of us. Neal clearly has no plan.
If there is no significant upgrade to this team, then 2017 was a total waste - if there was never a plan to equip the team to contend then 2017 was simply depreciation of what little assets the Pirates have. Every valuable piece on the Pirates roster is materially less valuable this winter than last year this time: Cole, Cutch, Marte, Polanco, Glasgow, Meadows. Bell is probably the only truly elite player in the roster.
Last winter Neal was faced with the identical problem he has now with respect to the major league team: he needed to up grade and failing that he needed to move valuable assets to rebuild. Once it became clear there would be no upgrade Neal needed to manage his assets for their best possible return - Cole and one or two outfielders needed to be moved. Instead Neal wastes all of 2017 and now Cole, Marte etc have much less value.
Point: if Neal lacks even basic assets to add to the team, then he must be excellent at moving assets. He's unwilling to make any trades of a significant value. M
If there is no significant upgrade to this team, then 2017 was a total waste - if there was never a plan to equip the team to contend then 2017 was simply depreciation of what little assets the Pirates have. Every valuable piece on the Pirates roster is materially less valuable this winter than last year this time: Cole, Cutch, Marte, Polanco, Glasgow, Meadows. Bell is probably the only truly elite player in the roster.
Last winter Neal was faced with the identical problem he has now with respect to the major league team: he needed to up grade and failing that he needed to move valuable assets to rebuild. Once it became clear there would be no upgrade Neal needed to manage his assets for their best possible return - Cole and one or two outfielders needed to be moved. Instead Neal wastes all of 2017 and now Cole, Marte etc have much less value.
Point: if Neal lacks even basic assets to add to the team, then he must be excellent at moving assets. He's unwilling to make any trades of a significant value. M
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
I don't think any of us are in too much disagreement here. Failure to trade prospects to bolster the roster while our window was most open, has got to be my biggest frustration.
My point on Meadows specifically is, I don't feel he has lost any more of his luster due to a bad hamstring, than Taillon did when he had TJS. If you miss games and can't consistently produce, your status will fall. Those are exactly the type scenarios good GMs should be looking for. On the flip side, it seems that is all our GM looks for.
I am not necessarily against trading Meadows, but I would not do it just because he had a troublesome hamstring.
My point on Meadows specifically is, I don't feel he has lost any more of his luster due to a bad hamstring, than Taillon did when he had TJS. If you miss games and can't consistently produce, your status will fall. Those are exactly the type scenarios good GMs should be looking for. On the flip side, it seems that is all our GM looks for.
I am not necessarily against trading Meadows, but I would not do it just because he had a troublesome hamstring.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
10173B2C3A590 wrote: I don't think any of us are in too much disagreement here. Failure to trade prospects to bolster the roster while our window was most open, has got to be my biggest frustration.
My point on Meadows specifically is, I don't feel he has lost any more of his luster due to a bad hamstring, than Taillon did when he had TJS. If you miss games and can't consistently produce, your status will fall. Those are exactly the type scenarios good GMs should be looking for. On the flip side, it seems that is all our GM looks for.
I am not necessarily against trading Meadows, but I would not do it just because he had a troublesome hamstring.
Your first graph is exactly true. The window was open for three years and this organization failed miserably for recognizing it and building upon the momentum. Now we see a decline. The owner is punishing the franchise because attendance is down. Its a two way street Bob. Attendance is down because you aren't spending $$ on the product.
My point on Meadows specifically is, I don't feel he has lost any more of his luster due to a bad hamstring, than Taillon did when he had TJS. If you miss games and can't consistently produce, your status will fall. Those are exactly the type scenarios good GMs should be looking for. On the flip side, it seems that is all our GM looks for.
I am not necessarily against trading Meadows, but I would not do it just because he had a troublesome hamstring.
Your first graph is exactly true. The window was open for three years and this organization failed miserably for recognizing it and building upon the momentum. Now we see a decline. The owner is punishing the franchise because attendance is down. Its a two way street Bob. Attendance is down because you aren't spending $$ on the product.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
7378707C7978632620576E767F7878397478170 wrote: http://nyp.st/2jSmYdg
what the NY guy expects the Pirates could get. Very interesting seeing this perspective.
If this is something the Yanks would offer, NH can't turn that down. I don't think the Yanks would offer that at all. NH would probably ask for Torres along with Frazier and Adams which would negate the deal. I would drive Cole to NY myself if its Wade, Frazier, Adams and Cessa. I really don't think Cole is worth a Sonny Gray return. Why? Because he isn't Sonny Gray.
Cole and Gray have very similar numbers. Very, very similar. If Cole becomes available, he would be a top pitcher on the trade market.
I would love Frazier and Meadows together for years.
Gray is a better pitcher. I would love to see what Cole's numbers would be pitching in the AL. If both pitched in the NL, the numbers wouldn't be as close. Gray is more consistent.
what the NY guy expects the Pirates could get. Very interesting seeing this perspective.
If this is something the Yanks would offer, NH can't turn that down. I don't think the Yanks would offer that at all. NH would probably ask for Torres along with Frazier and Adams which would negate the deal. I would drive Cole to NY myself if its Wade, Frazier, Adams and Cessa. I really don't think Cole is worth a Sonny Gray return. Why? Because he isn't Sonny Gray.
Cole and Gray have very similar numbers. Very, very similar. If Cole becomes available, he would be a top pitcher on the trade market.
I would love Frazier and Meadows together for years.
Gray is a better pitcher. I would love to see what Cole's numbers would be pitching in the AL. If both pitched in the NL, the numbers wouldn't be as close. Gray is more consistent.