Which one if either gets traded this coming week
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
It's no win for the Marlins. How many times has the MVP been a salary dump?
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
5242437462626E010 wrote: I think both will be gone by the deadline.
You need to dump them like now, if you want to maximize their trade value. Someone will overpay for Cole. Cutch, you can't keep until the deadline. If he plays like he has the last two years, absent a very hot 2.5 months in 2017, his value is greatly reduced. The only reason you should keep them is if you are going to make a serious attempt to win by ADDING GOOD players not garbage. That ain't happening.
That's just it they are going to believe or at least say they are competitive but when they're 10-12 games out by the dead line both will get traded.
You need to dump them like now, if you want to maximize their trade value. Someone will overpay for Cole. Cutch, you can't keep until the deadline. If he plays like he has the last two years, absent a very hot 2.5 months in 2017, his value is greatly reduced. The only reason you should keep them is if you are going to make a serious attempt to win by ADDING GOOD players not garbage. That ain't happening.
That's just it they are going to believe or at least say they are competitive but when they're 10-12 games out by the dead line both will get traded.
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Bobster21
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
656E666A6F6E753036417860696E6E2F626E010 wrote: It's no win for the Marlins. How many times has the MVP been a salary dump?
I think the contract was smart. They got Stanton thru some of his best years and knew they could find a taker for their superstar before the really big bucks kicked in. The problem was that they wasted those years with him by not surrounding him with a better team. I think when the contract was signed, it was a foregone conclusion that he'd be traded before 2018 when the 25 million was due. The mystery is why they didn't take advantage and build around him while they had him.
I think the contract was smart. They got Stanton thru some of his best years and knew they could find a taker for their superstar before the really big bucks kicked in. The problem was that they wasted those years with him by not surrounding him with a better team. I think when the contract was signed, it was a foregone conclusion that he'd be traded before 2018 when the 25 million was due. The mystery is why they didn't take advantage and build around him while they had him.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
5D707D6C6B7A6D2D2E1F0 wrote: It's no win for the Marlins. How many times has the MVP been a salary dump?
I think the contract was smart. They got Stanton thru some of his best years and knew they could find a taker for their superstar before the really big bucks kicked in. The problem was that they wasted those years with him by not surrounding him with a better team. I think when the contract was signed, it was a foregone conclusion that he'd be traded before 2018 when the 25 million was due. The mystery is why they didn't take advantage and build around him while they had him.
It was a gutsy contract and as of today the Marlins got off the tightrope unscathed. Their investment might have looked better this year in particular had Jose Fernandez still been playing. They had a heck of an offense, and who knows, with Jose they might had done well enough to add the pieces to get them to the post season.
The Bucs could make a similar type decision this week. They could offer someone like Moustakas say 80M over 5 years. If (gasp) everything fell in line we could get back to the playoffs before Cutch and others graduate and the roster turnover begins. If that would occur, and Moustakes didn't tank, trade him off. In effect, we would only be paying market value for the year we used him.
Whether the Bucs would do it or not, these type of dealings is where the game is going.
I think the contract was smart. They got Stanton thru some of his best years and knew they could find a taker for their superstar before the really big bucks kicked in. The problem was that they wasted those years with him by not surrounding him with a better team. I think when the contract was signed, it was a foregone conclusion that he'd be traded before 2018 when the 25 million was due. The mystery is why they didn't take advantage and build around him while they had him.
It was a gutsy contract and as of today the Marlins got off the tightrope unscathed. Their investment might have looked better this year in particular had Jose Fernandez still been playing. They had a heck of an offense, and who knows, with Jose they might had done well enough to add the pieces to get them to the post season.
The Bucs could make a similar type decision this week. They could offer someone like Moustakas say 80M over 5 years. If (gasp) everything fell in line we could get back to the playoffs before Cutch and others graduate and the roster turnover begins. If that would occur, and Moustakes didn't tank, trade him off. In effect, we would only be paying market value for the year we used him.
Whether the Bucs would do it or not, these type of dealings is where the game is going.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
Cutch and Cole remain with the Bucs, and there is no real effort to truly improve the team otherwise. More of the same middle-of-the-road (at best) FA position players and pitching reclamation projects. We'll end up short of .500. Tepid. Tepid is the word that comes to mind when I think of the above.
This is a mistake. They should turn them over for young talent, or buy in seriously to make a splash, attempt to contend, and raise ratings for the upcoming TV contract negotiations. This will be the worst of all worlds. Not really competitive, not improving in the future, and assuring rapidly falling ratings which will severely damage their ability to draw a decent TV contract after 2019 and add payroll in the future.
They're shooting themselves in both feet with a (non)move like this. In fact, I've heard that they're investing heavily in genome research and biotech so that they can grow more feet to shoot. Hope I'm wrong.
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1282 ... nt-in-2017
The Pirates' local TV ratings plummeted by 27 percent this year, the fifth-largest drop in the majors.
<snip>
In addition to tuning out the Pirates on TV, fans made fewer trips to PNC Park. Home attendance was down 15 percent compared to last year.
Every so often, folks here get in a rut, don't see light at the end of the tunnel, and talk about quitting the team. Sometimes they make a big splashy announcement, sometimes they just crawl in, all dejected, and admit the team depresses them and they wonder why they should bother. I have to admit I'm thinking in that direction this winter. I won't do it though. I'm too old, don't know anything else. My heart's not in rooting for another team, but it is starting to look a little pointless again for the next few years. Longer, if they eff up the TV contract like I think they will.
This is a mistake. They should turn them over for young talent, or buy in seriously to make a splash, attempt to contend, and raise ratings for the upcoming TV contract negotiations. This will be the worst of all worlds. Not really competitive, not improving in the future, and assuring rapidly falling ratings which will severely damage their ability to draw a decent TV contract after 2019 and add payroll in the future.
They're shooting themselves in both feet with a (non)move like this. In fact, I've heard that they're investing heavily in genome research and biotech so that they can grow more feet to shoot. Hope I'm wrong.
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1282 ... nt-in-2017
The Pirates' local TV ratings plummeted by 27 percent this year, the fifth-largest drop in the majors.
<snip>
In addition to tuning out the Pirates on TV, fans made fewer trips to PNC Park. Home attendance was down 15 percent compared to last year.
Every so often, folks here get in a rut, don't see light at the end of the tunnel, and talk about quitting the team. Sometimes they make a big splashy announcement, sometimes they just crawl in, all dejected, and admit the team depresses them and they wonder why they should bother. I have to admit I'm thinking in that direction this winter. I won't do it though. I'm too old, don't know anything else. My heart's not in rooting for another team, but it is starting to look a little pointless again for the next few years. Longer, if they eff up the TV contract like I think they will.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
4348404C4948531610675E464F4848094448270 wrote: If/when Cutch gets traded for Starlin Castro and some mid-level prospects, what would the consensus be on that one?
Huge win for the marlins. They successfully controlled one of the best hitters in baseball for years as a "small market" and then traded him for something.
They didn't "mortgage the future" and ruin themselves as an organization for years, I was guaranteed they were doing. Sure, they didn't do anything else well and didn't add around him, but the Stanton contract was a success for them.
They retained the otherwise unretainable by offering him a "dumb, ridiculous, silly, scary" contract.
I recall analysts praising the Marlins for that contract when it was given because it was backloaded and it was anticipated Miami when trade him before the big money kicked in. That's exactly what they did. He got 6.5 mil in 2014 and 2015, 9 mil in 2016 and 14.5 mil in 2017. Beginning 2018 he gets 25, 26, 26, 29, 29, 32, 32, 32, 29, and 25 mil with a 10 million buyout the following year at age 38. Marlins had him for 7 years thru age 27. NY now has to pay him for 11 years at 25+ mil at ages 28-38. Furthermore, the Marlins have finished under .500 in all 7 of Stanton's seasons with them including 3 last place finishes. As Branch Rickey said of Ralph Kiner: they finished last with him, they could finish last without him.
Frank Connelly got in trouble for relaying that same message. Connelly ended up right.
I don't think the Marlins benefitted from that deal at all. They didn't win and it is reported the return of players will not be close in value.
That deal allowed them to sign one of the best players in baseball through 2 free agent years that he otherwise would be playing for another team.
How can anyone with any rational sense believe that the marlins didn't benefit from that contract extension the way it's played out now?
Don't you remember saying how it would bury their franchise for eternity? they were mortgaging their future and it was a terrible mistake.
They got 2 seasons at a .929 OPS average, 86 homers, an MVP season (2017) that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten because they would have either let him walk and got comp pick(s) or traded him with a year left on his contract and got a little more than they just did.
It's not stanton's fault or that contracts fault that they didn't fill in around him and RAISE THEIR OVERALL PAYROLL. It's because their owner is a snake.
I love seeing things like this work out because it throws mud all over the cautious "mortgaging the future" nonsense. The only way our FO and an unfortunately very vocal minority of our fanbase will support spending money is if returns are essentially GUARANTEED.
NH isn't a hedge fund manager and yall aren't investors, you're fans.
Huge win for the marlins. They successfully controlled one of the best hitters in baseball for years as a "small market" and then traded him for something.
They didn't "mortgage the future" and ruin themselves as an organization for years, I was guaranteed they were doing. Sure, they didn't do anything else well and didn't add around him, but the Stanton contract was a success for them.
They retained the otherwise unretainable by offering him a "dumb, ridiculous, silly, scary" contract.
I recall analysts praising the Marlins for that contract when it was given because it was backloaded and it was anticipated Miami when trade him before the big money kicked in. That's exactly what they did. He got 6.5 mil in 2014 and 2015, 9 mil in 2016 and 14.5 mil in 2017. Beginning 2018 he gets 25, 26, 26, 29, 29, 32, 32, 32, 29, and 25 mil with a 10 million buyout the following year at age 38. Marlins had him for 7 years thru age 27. NY now has to pay him for 11 years at 25+ mil at ages 28-38. Furthermore, the Marlins have finished under .500 in all 7 of Stanton's seasons with them including 3 last place finishes. As Branch Rickey said of Ralph Kiner: they finished last with him, they could finish last without him.
Frank Connelly got in trouble for relaying that same message. Connelly ended up right.
I don't think the Marlins benefitted from that deal at all. They didn't win and it is reported the return of players will not be close in value.
That deal allowed them to sign one of the best players in baseball through 2 free agent years that he otherwise would be playing for another team.
How can anyone with any rational sense believe that the marlins didn't benefit from that contract extension the way it's played out now?
Don't you remember saying how it would bury their franchise for eternity? they were mortgaging their future and it was a terrible mistake.
They got 2 seasons at a .929 OPS average, 86 homers, an MVP season (2017) that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten because they would have either let him walk and got comp pick(s) or traded him with a year left on his contract and got a little more than they just did.
It's not stanton's fault or that contracts fault that they didn't fill in around him and RAISE THEIR OVERALL PAYROLL. It's because their owner is a snake.
I love seeing things like this work out because it throws mud all over the cautious "mortgaging the future" nonsense. The only way our FO and an unfortunately very vocal minority of our fanbase will support spending money is if returns are essentially GUARANTEED.
NH isn't a hedge fund manager and yall aren't investors, you're fans.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
With respect to the poll.
1) McCutchen will be traded. I believe we will be unimpressed with the return. The Bucs will not land a really good prospect in return.
2) Cole should be traded, but, he won't, unless McCutchen is traded first. With a pitcher like Chatwood commanding a 3 year deal for at least $35 mil or so, Cole should have value.
Note: I am in the camp that wants the Pirates to blow it up. Keep Marte and Bell among the current regular position players and keep all of the young starters. Also, move Rivero while he is at peak value. While I am likely wrong, I do not believe Rivero will sustain the success he experienced during the first 4.5 months of last season.
1) McCutchen will be traded. I believe we will be unimpressed with the return. The Bucs will not land a really good prospect in return.
2) Cole should be traded, but, he won't, unless McCutchen is traded first. With a pitcher like Chatwood commanding a 3 year deal for at least $35 mil or so, Cole should have value.
Note: I am in the camp that wants the Pirates to blow it up. Keep Marte and Bell among the current regular position players and keep all of the young starters. Also, move Rivero while he is at peak value. While I am likely wrong, I do not believe Rivero will sustain the success he experienced during the first 4.5 months of last season.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
Rivero is seeking a new contract. I assume just through his arbitration years, but talks have started.
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
212630383621666A13343E323A3F7D303C3E530 wrote: Regarding the poll: Cutch and Cole remain Pirates.
That would be a major mistake. I wouldn't be stunned if that happened based on the foolishness of this ownership group and GM.
That would be a major mistake. I wouldn't be stunned if that happened based on the foolishness of this ownership group and GM.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Which one if either gets traded this coming week
634E43525544531310210 wrote: It's no win for the Marlins. How many times has the MVP been a salary dump?
I think the contract was smart. They got Stanton thru some of his best years and knew they could find a taker for their superstar before the really big bucks kicked in. The problem was that they wasted those years with him by not surrounding him with a better team. I think when the contract was signed, it was a foregone conclusion that he'd be traded before 2018 when the 25 million was due. The mystery is why they didn't take advantage and build around him while they had him.
"Smart" move or not, to say that's a good deal and anything but a travesty is to legitimize and defend the incredibly flawed MLB system. It shoudn't have ever come to that, and losing an all time great for nothing shouldn't ever be considered a "win."
If they had traded him for "stuff" for rebuilding that's one thing. But instead they had to give him away to the yankees because the yankees have a bunch of money and the marlins don't. MLB doesn't care about how unbalanced everything is, because "hey look everyone the Royals won that one time, see everything is just fine."
I think the contract was smart. They got Stanton thru some of his best years and knew they could find a taker for their superstar before the really big bucks kicked in. The problem was that they wasted those years with him by not surrounding him with a better team. I think when the contract was signed, it was a foregone conclusion that he'd be traded before 2018 when the 25 million was due. The mystery is why they didn't take advantage and build around him while they had him.
"Smart" move or not, to say that's a good deal and anything but a travesty is to legitimize and defend the incredibly flawed MLB system. It shoudn't have ever come to that, and losing an all time great for nothing shouldn't ever be considered a "win."
If they had traded him for "stuff" for rebuilding that's one thing. But instead they had to give him away to the yankees because the yankees have a bunch of money and the marlins don't. MLB doesn't care about how unbalanced everything is, because "hey look everyone the Royals won that one time, see everything is just fine."