263A3721212B520 wrote:
I don't disagree with your assessment, but what could a pitcher say that wouldn't make it seem like excuses and placing blame on his teammates for the sake of his stats?
That's exactly why they don't say anything. I get it. But the players complaining aren't realizing that they are hurting their pitcher when they complain.
Imagine Taillon saying after the game: "Yeah, I pitched well, I thought after a rocky start. If the Josh's make those plays, it would have been a good outing and maybe a win."
Errors aren't errors anymore
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Errors aren't errors anymore
3338303C3938236660172E363F3838793438570 wrote:
I don't disagree with your assessment, but what could a pitcher say that wouldn't make it seem like excuses and placing blame on his teammates for the sake of his stats?
That's exactly why they don't say anything. I get it. But the players complaining aren't realizing that they are hurting their pitcher when they complain.
Imagine Taillon saying after the game: "Yeah, I pitched well, I thought after a rocky start. If the Josh's make those plays, it would have been a good outing and maybe a win."
Well maybe if he didn't issue 5 BB's they would've won also. I don't think Harrison's play should've been an error. I will grant you Bell should've at least knocked down the Gonzalez "double."
I don't disagree with your assessment, but what could a pitcher say that wouldn't make it seem like excuses and placing blame on his teammates for the sake of his stats?
That's exactly why they don't say anything. I get it. But the players complaining aren't realizing that they are hurting their pitcher when they complain.
Imagine Taillon saying after the game: "Yeah, I pitched well, I thought after a rocky start. If the Josh's make those plays, it would have been a good outing and maybe a win."
Well maybe if he didn't issue 5 BB's they would've won also. I don't think Harrison's play should've been an error. I will grant you Bell should've at least knocked down the Gonzalez "double."
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Bobster21
Errors aren't errors anymore
4A41494540415A1F196E574F464141004D412E0 wrote:
I don't disagree with your assessment, but what could a pitcher say that wouldn't make it seem like excuses and placing blame on his teammates for the sake of his stats?
That's exactly why they don't say anything. I get it. But the players complaining aren't realizing that they are hurting their pitcher when they complain.
Imagine Taillon saying after the game: "Yeah, I pitched well, I thought after a rocky start. If the Josh's make those plays, it would have been a good outing and maybe a win."
Yes, it's a no-win situation for pitchers. Their stats suffer unfairly but they can't complain about it like hitters can.
I don't disagree with your assessment, but what could a pitcher say that wouldn't make it seem like excuses and placing blame on his teammates for the sake of his stats?
That's exactly why they don't say anything. I get it. But the players complaining aren't realizing that they are hurting their pitcher when they complain.
Imagine Taillon saying after the game: "Yeah, I pitched well, I thought after a rocky start. If the Josh's make those plays, it would have been a good outing and maybe a win."
Yes, it's a no-win situation for pitchers. Their stats suffer unfairly but they can't complain about it like hitters can.
Errors aren't errors anymore
So ERAs must be higher across baseball than they were 2-3 years ago?
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Bobster21
Errors aren't errors anymore
505951404E340 wrote: So ERAs must be higher across baseball than they were 2-3 years ago?
Oh, I think this tendency goes back at least 10 years or more.
Oh, I think this tendency goes back at least 10 years or more.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Errors aren't errors anymore
6B464B5A5D4C5B1B18290 wrote: So ERAs must be higher across baseball than they were 2-3 years ago?
Oh, I think this tendency goes back at least 10 years or more.
Yeah, and can be very hard to calculate. There was the steroid era and also doesn't mean every error scores a run. Its still an interesting question.
I also feel if there is a question about a play, it is ruled a Hit. More plays are overturned to Hits than Errors in my opinion too (key word - opinion).
Oh, I think this tendency goes back at least 10 years or more.
Yeah, and can be very hard to calculate. There was the steroid era and also doesn't mean every error scores a run. Its still an interesting question.
I also feel if there is a question about a play, it is ruled a Hit. More plays are overturned to Hits than Errors in my opinion too (key word - opinion).
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Errors aren't errors anymore
Here is an article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/sport ... -word.html
Here is an article saying the hitter should get some credit if an error is made:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-erro ... -on-error/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/sport ... -word.html
Here is an article saying the hitter should get some credit if an error is made:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-erro ... -on-error/
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Bobster21
Errors aren't errors anymore
I've always felt reaching on an error should credit toward OBP. At least the batter put the ball in play and reached safely. And since scoring hits vs errors is subjective, at least for OBP would be the same either way.
It's silly if 2 batters each bat 10 times. One makes an out every time and has an OBP of .000. The other reaches safely all 10 times on errors. He's never made an out and reached safely every time. But his OBP is also .000. That's not right.
It's silly if 2 batters each bat 10 times. One makes an out every time and has an OBP of .000. The other reaches safely all 10 times on errors. He's never made an out and reached safely every time. But his OBP is also .000. That's not right.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Errors aren't errors anymore
1B363B2A2D3C2B6B68590 wrote: I've always felt reaching on an error should credit toward OBP. At least the batter put the ball in play and reached safely. And since scoring hits vs errors is subjective, at least for OBP would be the same either way.
It's silly if 2 batters each bat 10 times. One makes an out every time and has an OBP of .000. The other reaches safely all 10 times on errors. He's never made an out and reached safely every time. But his OBP is also .000. That's not right.
I didn't realize that. I agree, it should count as OBP.
I used to think when a Pitcher makes an error and that guys scores, it should still go against the Pitcher some how. I know the hitter didn't "earn" it, but the Pitcher is the one who let them get on base.
It's silly if 2 batters each bat 10 times. One makes an out every time and has an OBP of .000. The other reaches safely all 10 times on errors. He's never made an out and reached safely every time. But his OBP is also .000. That's not right.
I didn't realize that. I agree, it should count as OBP.
I used to think when a Pitcher makes an error and that guys scores, it should still go against the Pitcher some how. I know the hitter didn't "earn" it, but the Pitcher is the one who let them get on base.
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Bobster21
Errors aren't errors anymore
606B636F6A6B703533447D656C6B6B2A676B040 wrote: I've always felt reaching on an error should credit toward OBP. At least the batter put the ball in play and reached safely. And since scoring hits vs errors is subjective, at least for OBP would be the same either way.
It's silly if 2 batters each bat 10 times. One makes an out every time and has an OBP of .000. The other reaches safely all 10 times on errors. He's never made an out and reached safely every time. But his OBP is also .000. That's not right.
I didn't realize that. I agree, it should count as OBP.
I used to think when a Pitcher makes an error and that guys scores, it should still go against the Pitcher some how. I know the hitter didn't "earn" it, but the Pitcher is the one who let them get on base.
Yeah, stats can be misleading. I always look at WHIP to get an idea of how many base runners a pitcher allows. But not only does WHIP fail to include runners who reach on errors (even tho some of those could subjectively be counted as hits), it also fails to count HBP. In 2013 and 2014, Charlie Morton had respectable WHIPs of 1.284 ans 1.271. But he led the NL both years in HBP. So even tho he put more runners on base via HBP than any other NL pitcher, his WHIP was computed as tho that never happened. Weird.
It's silly if 2 batters each bat 10 times. One makes an out every time and has an OBP of .000. The other reaches safely all 10 times on errors. He's never made an out and reached safely every time. But his OBP is also .000. That's not right.
I didn't realize that. I agree, it should count as OBP.
I used to think when a Pitcher makes an error and that guys scores, it should still go against the Pitcher some how. I know the hitter didn't "earn" it, but the Pitcher is the one who let them get on base.
Yeah, stats can be misleading. I always look at WHIP to get an idea of how many base runners a pitcher allows. But not only does WHIP fail to include runners who reach on errors (even tho some of those could subjectively be counted as hits), it also fails to count HBP. In 2013 and 2014, Charlie Morton had respectable WHIPs of 1.284 ans 1.271. But he led the NL both years in HBP. So even tho he put more runners on base via HBP than any other NL pitcher, his WHIP was computed as tho that never happened. Weird.