6B5955554173505954515E59380 wrote: I for one think that if they trade Cole they should just blow up the team and start all over. I am only addressing the pitching staff in this post and not any everyday players. That is a subject for another thread. So I believe that means trading Nova as well and perhaps even Rivero since there will not be many chances for saves.
It will be hard to tell what they might get in return for Cole and or Nova. Most certainly they have enough holes to fill for everyday players and might not get a tip top MLB ready starter of note in any trade. So where do they go from here? Taillion at the top for sure but where do you go from there? Williams, Brault, Kuhl, Glasnow and ?
As for the pen I think that is a crap shoot. They will need some serious innings eaters there and perhaps what they have now is okay with the exception of the removal of Riverio. Perhaps you replace Riverio with a kid like Glasnow who does not look like a lock to be a top or the rotation starter but who could perhaps be a pretty good backend of the bullpen guy.
The end result is that 2018 will be a bad, bad year and so might 2019 before the kids in the system begin arriving.
If they do that I still think the time to trade Rivero is the deadline. There's always a team that thinks that they're "one bullpen piece away" from it all.
Generally, the return on closers at the deadline are hit and miss. Some years they are high, others ... not so much. As I look at the teams who are thought to be competing for a title/play-off spot, the only ones that seem set at closer are Boston, Yanks, Cleveland, and LA Dodgers. The rest are relying on major questions. Rodney in Minnesota (I'm impressed they are trying to build on their playoff spot last year unlike what we did), Houston with Giles; Washington with Doolittle; Cubs with Morriw; STL with Gregerson; Arizona with ??? Bradley?; Colorado with Holland. A lot of question marks out there where there could be a serious bidding war for Riverio if that is the route they take. The thing is, he is cheap and controllable for a few years. This goes against what Pittsburgh does.
2018 Pitching Staff
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2018 Pitching Staff
6F4E466F444C2B0 wrote: I for one think that if they trade Cole they should just blow up the team and start all over. I am only addressing the pitching staff in this post and not any everyday players. That is a subject for another thread. So I believe that means trading Nova as well and perhaps even Rivero since there will not be many chances for saves.
It will be hard to tell what they might get in return for Cole and or Nova. Most certainly they have enough holes to fill for everyday players and might not get a tip top MLB ready starter of note in any trade. So where do they go from here? Taillion at the top for sure but where do you go from there? Williams, Brault, Kuhl, Glasnow and ?
As for the pen I think that is a crap shoot. They will need some serious innings eaters there and perhaps what they have now is okay with the exception of the removal of Riverio. Perhaps you replace Riverio with a kid like Glasnow who does not look like a lock to be a top or the rotation starter but who could perhaps be a pretty good backend of the bullpen guy.
The end result is that 2018 will be a bad, bad year and so might 2019 before the kids in the system begin arriving.
My question is what kids are going to arrive?
Doesn't seem to be a lot of difference makers in system to me. Maybe some will step forward this season.
It will be hard to tell what they might get in return for Cole and or Nova. Most certainly they have enough holes to fill for everyday players and might not get a tip top MLB ready starter of note in any trade. So where do they go from here? Taillion at the top for sure but where do you go from there? Williams, Brault, Kuhl, Glasnow and ?
As for the pen I think that is a crap shoot. They will need some serious innings eaters there and perhaps what they have now is okay with the exception of the removal of Riverio. Perhaps you replace Riverio with a kid like Glasnow who does not look like a lock to be a top or the rotation starter but who could perhaps be a pretty good backend of the bullpen guy.
The end result is that 2018 will be a bad, bad year and so might 2019 before the kids in the system begin arriving.
My question is what kids are going to arrive?
Doesn't seem to be a lot of difference makers in system to me. Maybe some will step forward this season.
2018 Pitching Staff
614746514757240 wrote: I for one think that if they trade Cole they should just blow up the team and start all over. I am only addressing the pitching staff in this post and not any everyday players. That is a subject for another thread. So I believe that means trading Nova as well and perhaps even Rivero since there will not be many chances for saves.
It will be hard to tell what they might get in return for Cole and or Nova. Most certainly they have enough holes to fill for everyday players and might not get a tip top MLB ready starter of note in any trade. So where do they go from here? Taillion at the top for sure but where do you go from there? Williams, Brault, Kuhl, Glasnow and ?
As for the pen I think that is a crap shoot. They will need some serious innings eaters there and perhaps what they have now is okay with the exception of the removal of Riverio. Perhaps you replace Riverio with a kid like Glasnow who does not look like a lock to be a top or the rotation starter but who could perhaps be a pretty good backend of the bullpen guy.
The end result is that 2018 will be a bad, bad year and so might 2019 before the kids in the system begin arriving.
My question is what kids are going to arrive?
Doesn't seem to be a lot of difference makers in system to me. Maybe some will step forward this season.
I would assume Keller is one. Baz is another, but he is probably three years away at least. Kingham isn't a kid anymore. He is like 26. I don't see much of anything else that appears to be a potential impact/difference maker.
It will be hard to tell what they might get in return for Cole and or Nova. Most certainly they have enough holes to fill for everyday players and might not get a tip top MLB ready starter of note in any trade. So where do they go from here? Taillion at the top for sure but where do you go from there? Williams, Brault, Kuhl, Glasnow and ?
As for the pen I think that is a crap shoot. They will need some serious innings eaters there and perhaps what they have now is okay with the exception of the removal of Riverio. Perhaps you replace Riverio with a kid like Glasnow who does not look like a lock to be a top or the rotation starter but who could perhaps be a pretty good backend of the bullpen guy.
The end result is that 2018 will be a bad, bad year and so might 2019 before the kids in the system begin arriving.
My question is what kids are going to arrive?
Doesn't seem to be a lot of difference makers in system to me. Maybe some will step forward this season.
I would assume Keller is one. Baz is another, but he is probably three years away at least. Kingham isn't a kid anymore. He is like 26. I don't see much of anything else that appears to be a potential impact/difference maker.
2018 Pitching Staff
If (when) Cole is traded the Bucs should ramp up efforts to also trade Nova. Trading Cole signals a rebuild is on the way and the Bucs should go all in (no half ways). The goals in trading Nova should be salary relief and obtaining a prospect or two that may have some upside.
I have frequently commented that I believe the Bucs should deal Rivero. I believe he may be their best trade chip. I also prefer that they deal him now when he may be at peak value. If no one is willing to pay the asking price, then yes, hang onto him and try again closer to the deadlline. I also fear that Rivero's control may not be as good as what it was during the first 4 months of last season.
And, if both Cole and Nova are gone, next year's starting staff will feature a year plus of growing (groaning) pains. Frankly, I want to see what Tallion, Williams, Kuhl (I like the stuff he was throwing at the end of the year), Brault, Kingham and others (perhaps Glasnow) can bring to the table I expect the worst, but hey, Keller and talent acquired in the trades may be only a year or so away.
With respect to the pen if Rivero is traded --- ouch! Inning eaters will be needed.
Sure hope that they start the rebuild process soon.
I have frequently commented that I believe the Bucs should deal Rivero. I believe he may be their best trade chip. I also prefer that they deal him now when he may be at peak value. If no one is willing to pay the asking price, then yes, hang onto him and try again closer to the deadlline. I also fear that Rivero's control may not be as good as what it was during the first 4 months of last season.
And, if both Cole and Nova are gone, next year's starting staff will feature a year plus of growing (groaning) pains. Frankly, I want to see what Tallion, Williams, Kuhl (I like the stuff he was throwing at the end of the year), Brault, Kingham and others (perhaps Glasnow) can bring to the table I expect the worst, but hey, Keller and talent acquired in the trades may be only a year or so away.
With respect to the pen if Rivero is traded --- ouch! Inning eaters will be needed.
Sure hope that they start the rebuild process soon.
2018 Pitching Staff
6676774056565A350 wrote: I for one think that if they trade Cole they should just blow up the team and start all over. I am only addressing the pitching staff in this post and not any everyday players. That is a subject for another thread. So I believe that means trading Nova as well and perhaps even Rivero since there will not be many chances for saves.
It will be hard to tell what they might get in return for Cole and or Nova. Most certainly they have enough holes to fill for everyday players and might not get a tip top MLB ready starter of note in any trade. So where do they go from here? Taillion at the top for sure but where do you go from there? Williams, Brault, Kuhl, Glasnow and ?
As for the pen I think that is a crap shoot. They will need some serious innings eaters there and perhaps what they have now is okay with the exception of the removal of Riverio. Perhaps you replace Riverio with a kid like Glasnow who does not look like a lock to be a top or the rotation starter but who could perhaps be a pretty good backend of the bullpen guy.
The end result is that 2018 will be a bad, bad year and so might 2019 before the kids in the system begin arriving.
My question is what kids are going to arrive?
Doesn't seem to be a lot of difference makers in system to me. Maybe some will step forward this season.
I would assume Keller is one. Baz is another, but he is probably three years away at least. Kingham isn't a kid anymore. He is like 26. I don't see much of anything else that appears to be a potential impact/difference maker.
Cole Tucker was another I thought could be. But considering what happened with Cole, Taillon and Glasnow it is being pretty optimistic to think that 2 pitchers could develop into difference makers. Maybe if there were 5 with that potential a couple could make it. It just seems like our farm system doesn't have players that are going to be able to produce all star type performances.
I think we have more folks that if they reach their potential they are Jordy Mercer (not the same as him but about the same impact - solid regulars but never being considered as good or very good players).
It will be hard to tell what they might get in return for Cole and or Nova. Most certainly they have enough holes to fill for everyday players and might not get a tip top MLB ready starter of note in any trade. So where do they go from here? Taillion at the top for sure but where do you go from there? Williams, Brault, Kuhl, Glasnow and ?
As for the pen I think that is a crap shoot. They will need some serious innings eaters there and perhaps what they have now is okay with the exception of the removal of Riverio. Perhaps you replace Riverio with a kid like Glasnow who does not look like a lock to be a top or the rotation starter but who could perhaps be a pretty good backend of the bullpen guy.
The end result is that 2018 will be a bad, bad year and so might 2019 before the kids in the system begin arriving.
My question is what kids are going to arrive?
Doesn't seem to be a lot of difference makers in system to me. Maybe some will step forward this season.
I would assume Keller is one. Baz is another, but he is probably three years away at least. Kingham isn't a kid anymore. He is like 26. I don't see much of anything else that appears to be a potential impact/difference maker.
Cole Tucker was another I thought could be. But considering what happened with Cole, Taillon and Glasnow it is being pretty optimistic to think that 2 pitchers could develop into difference makers. Maybe if there were 5 with that potential a couple could make it. It just seems like our farm system doesn't have players that are going to be able to produce all star type performances.
I think we have more folks that if they reach their potential they are Jordy Mercer (not the same as him but about the same impact - solid regulars but never being considered as good or very good players).
2018 Pitching Staff
If the Pirates feel that they simply MUST cut salary on their pitching staff, then they should find a home for Nova. I remain against trading Cole and even more against trading Rivero.
I want us to have nice things. Shock the world, Neal - sign Moustakas! If you can't afford him, then kiss Walker's butt and bring the Pittsburgh kid back. Or you can do a little creative trading with Miami.
Take on Brad Ziegler and send out Daniel Hudson. Take on Martin Prado and send out an INF prospect. Take on JT Realmuto and send out Francisco Cervelli. End result, we have a better catcher, have a better 3B mix, but owe about 10 mil more salary.
In any case, our offense will not get better without spending money, and I don't want to weaken our pitching to do it.
I want us to have nice things. Shock the world, Neal - sign Moustakas! If you can't afford him, then kiss Walker's butt and bring the Pittsburgh kid back. Or you can do a little creative trading with Miami.
Take on Brad Ziegler and send out Daniel Hudson. Take on Martin Prado and send out an INF prospect. Take on JT Realmuto and send out Francisco Cervelli. End result, we have a better catcher, have a better 3B mix, but owe about 10 mil more salary.
In any case, our offense will not get better without spending money, and I don't want to weaken our pitching to do it.
2018 Pitching Staff
644E457542545458370 wrote: If the Pirates feel that they simply MUST cut salary on their pitching staff, then they should find a home for Nova. I remain against trading Cole and even more against trading Rivero.
I want us to have nice things. Shock the world, Neal - sign Moustakas! If you can't afford him, then kiss Walker's butt and bring the Pittsburgh kid back. Or you can do a little creative trading with Miami.
Take on Brad Ziegler and send out Daniel Hudson. Take on Martin Prado and send out an INF prospect. Take on JT Realmuto and send out Francisco Cervelli. End result, we have a better catcher, have a better 3B mix, but owe about 10 mil more salary.
In any case, our offense will not get better without spending money, and I don't want to weaken our pitching to do it.
How about simply move Harrison to third full time. He is more than capable. But, that 10.3 million seems to be a sticking point with the Pirate brass. The bridge with Walker was burned. No chance a reunion happens.
There simply isn't a plan in place to succeed here.
I would see what Florida would want for Realmuto since we don't have anyone close to him and he is a controlled entity for a few years at a cheap price. But, what do I know?
Bottom line, SyrBucco (glad to have you back Drew), if it isn't in the cards where ownership doesn't want to pay the price to contend for a play-off spot, all those lovely pieces you speak of become expendable. The Cole rumors have been going for the last two years. They ain't resigning him, so this is probably the best time to move him and get the best potential return. You hold a major risk keeping him.
I want us to have nice things. Shock the world, Neal - sign Moustakas! If you can't afford him, then kiss Walker's butt and bring the Pittsburgh kid back. Or you can do a little creative trading with Miami.
Take on Brad Ziegler and send out Daniel Hudson. Take on Martin Prado and send out an INF prospect. Take on JT Realmuto and send out Francisco Cervelli. End result, we have a better catcher, have a better 3B mix, but owe about 10 mil more salary.
In any case, our offense will not get better without spending money, and I don't want to weaken our pitching to do it.
How about simply move Harrison to third full time. He is more than capable. But, that 10.3 million seems to be a sticking point with the Pirate brass. The bridge with Walker was burned. No chance a reunion happens.
There simply isn't a plan in place to succeed here.
I would see what Florida would want for Realmuto since we don't have anyone close to him and he is a controlled entity for a few years at a cheap price. But, what do I know?
Bottom line, SyrBucco (glad to have you back Drew), if it isn't in the cards where ownership doesn't want to pay the price to contend for a play-off spot, all those lovely pieces you speak of become expendable. The Cole rumors have been going for the last two years. They ain't resigning him, so this is probably the best time to move him and get the best potential return. You hold a major risk keeping him.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
2018 Pitching Staff
I think Nick Burdi has a real shot in making the bullpen. Of course, he has to show he is healthy and still throws hard. He had a lot of upside before getting hurt.
2018 Pitching Staff
767D75797C7D662325526B737A7D7D3C717D120 wrote: I think Nick Burdi has a real shot in making the bullpen. Of course, he has to show he is healthy and still throws hard. He had a lot of upside before getting hurt.
yeah, the Bucs must be pretty high on him to give up that much international bonus money.
I didn't realize until after the draft that teams can't see medical reports. Probably one of first things the Bucs did was arrange for him to be examined. He could be a better acquisition than Evan Meek.
yeah, the Bucs must be pretty high on him to give up that much international bonus money.
I didn't realize until after the draft that teams can't see medical reports. Probably one of first things the Bucs did was arrange for him to be examined. He could be a better acquisition than Evan Meek.
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DemDog
2018 Pitching Staff
Buidi will spend most of the season rehabbing from his TJ surgery of May 2017. Having no more than AA experience I think the Buccos will rehab him as long as possible and then get him up in Sept maybe for a cup of coffee.
But he seems to be a pretty good prospect and his pre TJ performance seems to warrant the big international bonus money that traded hands.
We shall see how this deal turns out in due course.
But he seems to be a pretty good prospect and his pre TJ performance seems to warrant the big international bonus money that traded hands.
We shall see how this deal turns out in due course.