More than 20% of the season is over and...

[SammyKhalifa]

Errm, Jason Bay?

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

45777B7B6F5D7E777A7F7077160 wrote: Errm, Jason Bay?




Bay turned out to be a bad trade, but he was being moved.  Every team knew he was being dumped (like Sanchez).  Moss turned out to have a few good years, just not with the Pirates.  Huntington got the right player, just didn't give him enough time to produce for the Pirates.



Don't forget, Bay's best years were in Pittsburgh.  He had one good year (2009) after he was dealt.  So, he was moved at the right time, but could have got more.  Not many saw his drop off either.

[SammyKhalifa]

Well, that's exactly what I'm saying. We moved him at the right time, but didn't necessarily get the return we needed.



His trade was envisioned to be the cornerstone deal of a rebuilding effort, and we got a big fat zero out of it. He was considered to be way more valuable than Freddy, whose worth was mostly just batting average.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

Agreed.  Moss was a valuable player two years too late.  I hated giving up on Moss.  Bay also turned out not to be that valuable. 



Any other examples?  I knew Bay would come up. Huntington's first (big) trade as a GM. It's like when someone goes to a restaurant for ten years, loves it, but then has one bad experience. Now their bad experience is on Facebook, Twitter so everyone knows. Never have they posted about all the good times and experiences in all their previous visits. Its just the negative society we live in. Huntington still has Jason Bay brought up almost nine years later.

[SammyKhalifa]

Off the top of my head? Jason Grilli. Right idea, wrong return.



I'd bring up Liriano but don't really want to go through all of that again.



Hey, you don't win them all. McClouth was good. So were others.



You're acting like I'm attacking his history when really all I said was that he seems to normally make deals at the right time but not always for the right thing.

[rucker59@gmail.com]

3E353D3134352E6B6D1A233B3235357439355A0 wrote: Huntington doesn't get enough credit for moves he didn't make.  What if they did extend McCutchen and he got a "Joey Votto like contract"?  So many wanted this to happen, but the Pirates are too cheap.  Were they cheap or smart? 



Trading for Quintana would have been awful if his numbers were the same in the NL. 


Neil is in an impossible job. The guy has to be more accountant than baseball executive. Unfortunate that we'll never know how good he could be.



But the question "were they cheap or were they smart" to not extend Cutch - I have zero doubt: they were cheap. There will always be times when "smart" and "cheap" intersect, but that doesn't change the reality that the Pirates can TRY to be "smart" but they ARE always cheap. A broken watch is exactly correct twice a day but no one is going to confuse the correct time with a good watch.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

51636F6F7B496A636E6B6463020 wrote: Off the top of my head?  Jason Grilli.  Right idea, wrong return.



I'd bring up Liriano but don't really want to go through all of that again.   



Hey, you don't win them all.  McClouth was good.  So were others. 



You're acting like I'm attacking his history when really all I said was that he seems to normally make deals at the right time but not always for the right thing.   


I am not attacking you. I am asking a question (Geez). This is a discussion board. I am curious. You said the returns weren't always good so I assumed your opinion had some examples.



I think the return wasn't that important at times and any return was worth a chance. Grilli falls in that category. You are right, bad return. Dumped his salary and wasn't going to be resigned.



Grilli was traded at age 37 with an ERA around 5.00 (If I recall). He also wrote that stupid book and no one wanted him around. He was clearly on the decline and that trade was a wash for both teams. Worth the shot.

[SammyKhalifa]

Yeah, Grilli turned from a fan favorite to a loony really quickly. I guess I was expecting more from that deal because he has a good history with those reliever moves.



As far as other marquee deals (us moving vets), not sure there have really been that many others, good or bad. Looks like we might have missed the boat with dealing Cutch but it's not like I was clamoring for that.

[rucker59@gmail.com]

4C7E72726654777E7376797E1F0 wrote: Yeah, Grilli turned from a fan favorite to a loony really quickly.  I guess I was expecting more from that deal because he has a good history with those reliever moves. 



As far as other marquee deals (us moving vets), not sure there have really been that many others, good or bad.  Looks like we might have missed the boat with dealing Cutch but it's not like I was clamoring for that. 


Missed the boat on Cutch -yep. But that's a tough one to put on Neil. However we're also missing the boat on Marte and Polanco and soon the same will be true with Cole - these are on Neil.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

51636F6F7B496A636E6B6463020 wrote: Yeah, Grilli turned from a fan favorite to a loony really quickly.  I guess I was expecting more from that deal because he has a good history with those reliever moves. 



As far as other marquee deals (us moving vets), not sure there have really been that many others, good or bad.  Looks like we might have missed the boat with dealing Cutch but it's not like I was clamoring for that. 


Agreed. I was hoping to see how Huntington does with dealing McCutchen. Now, he is lucky to get a player who can add anything to a team. I just hope McCutchen's name will carry some weight.



Not sure how we are missing the boat on Polanco, Cole, or Marte. They are all young and under contract. They aren't at the end of their deals with replacements coming up. They are part of the core the team will be built around.