I am more disappointed in Hudson than anyone. I liked that signing based on how he pitched in the 2016 season (only July was a rough month).
For a team that doesn't spend money and then invest $16 million in Bastardo, Hudson and Watson, they sure aren't getting any value back. Huntington went away from his norm and it backfired.
June 6, D-Day, vs Orioles
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
June 6, D-Day, vs Orioles
6B60686461607B3E384F766E676060216C600F0 wrote: I am more disappointed in Hudson than anyone. I liked that signing based on how he pitched in the 2016 season (only July was a rough month).
For a team that doesn't spend money and then invest $16 million in Bastardo, Hudson and Watson, they sure aren't getting any value back. Huntington went away from his norm and it backfired.
It was more than 1 bad month.
June 2016: ERA 9.00 WHIP 1.900
July 2016: ERA 19.29 WHIP 3.286
August 2016 ERA 4.09 WHIP 1.455
For a team that doesn't spend money and then invest $16 million in Bastardo, Hudson and Watson, they sure aren't getting any value back. Huntington went away from his norm and it backfired.
It was more than 1 bad month.
June 2016: ERA 9.00 WHIP 1.900
July 2016: ERA 19.29 WHIP 3.286
August 2016 ERA 4.09 WHIP 1.455
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
June 6, D-Day, vs Orioles
Hudson's last 1.2 innings in June were bad and his first inning in August was bad. Other than that, his June and August were pretty good. Those few outings raised his ERA and his WHIP for those months and were right in line when he pitched poorly during July.
Hudson had a bad 39 days in 2016 where he made 15 appearances.
Hudson had a bad 39 days in 2016 where he made 15 appearances.
June 6, D-Day, vs Orioles
353E363A3F3E256066112830393E3E7F323E510 wrote: Hudson's last 1.2 innings in June were bad and his first inning in August was bad. Other than that, his June and August were pretty good. Those few outings raised his ERA and his WHIP for those months and were right in line when he pitched poorly during July.
Hudson had a bad 39 days in 2016 where he made 15 appearances.
he has only been scored upon in 9 of his 26 appearances this year. (and one of those was an unearned run), Watson in 7 of 23.
Hudson had a bad 39 days in 2016 where he made 15 appearances.
he has only been scored upon in 9 of his 26 appearances this year. (and one of those was an unearned run), Watson in 7 of 23.
June 6, D-Day, vs Orioles
At this point I would go with Nicasio. Rivero needs to be used in the highest leverage situation, if it's the 9th fine if not oh well. The save stat is ridiculous anyway. Watson cannot be trusted.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
June 6, D-Day, vs Orioles
062021362030430 wrote: Hudson's last 1.2 innings in June were bad and his first inning in August was bad. Other than that, his June and August were pretty good. Those few outings raised his ERA and his WHIP for those months and were right in line when he pitched poorly during July.
Hudson had a bad 39 days in 2016 where he made 15 appearances.
he has only been scored upon in 9 of his 26 appearances this year. (and one of those was an unearned run), Watson in 7 of 23.
Doesn't seem that bad when you say it like that. That is still 1/3 of their appearances.
Hudson had a bad 39 days in 2016 where he made 15 appearances.
he has only been scored upon in 9 of his 26 appearances this year. (and one of those was an unearned run), Watson in 7 of 23.
Doesn't seem that bad when you say it like that. That is still 1/3 of their appearances.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
June 6, D-Day, vs Orioles
163B36272031266665540 wrote: Glasnow in the bullpen? He has more base runners than anyone. Glasnow needs to go to the minors.
Watson would be just as bad in the 6th or 7th inning. Wait, maybe he doesn't like the pressure like McCutchen?
Nicasio probably needs stretched out. Maybe he can go longer?
Hurdle said Leblanc has better splits against righties and the Orioles have been reverse split guys. At least he had a reason.
Totally disagree that Glasnow should go to the minors, he should go to the pen. The guy can throw 100 mph, has a good curve/breaking ball. He just needs to get his feet on the ground. Nolan Ryan started out in the bullpen, many great pitchers started there.
If you think Hurdle had a good reason to bring in LeBlanc, you believe he had a good reason to bring in Watson. Now that's ridiculous.
Glasnow is far from Nolan Ryan. Jeff Locke started in the bullpen too. Glasnow doesn't throw strikes. He is one of the wildest pitches I have ever seen. No way would I want him coming into a game with men on base. Glasnow isn't ready for that.
I didn't say it was a good reason. I said at least he had a reason. If you noticed, I questioned bringing in Leblanc when it occurred.
In The 9th, I am still bringing in Watson up two runs. Who are you bringing in with the options available?
You obviously never saw Ryan pitch when he was 21ish. He was wild as he could be that's why the Mets traded him. I don't think we know what Glasnow is but I'm sure not ready to give up on him. I believe CH is totally misusing him, and may be risking his career. Again I will say it, put him in the pen, bring him in low pressure situations, let him get some confidence and lets see what he can do. He has all the tools just needs some confidence, that's my opinion.
Nolan Ryan as a 21-year old rookie started 18 of his 21 games. He was wild but gave up only 93 hits in 134 innings and had a good ERA of 3.09. His HR rate (12 in 134 IP) was 0.8 per 9 IP. He was with the Mets 3 more years after that. ERA was always below 4.00. Walks were always high but hits/innings was always low. The only thing Glasnow has in common is the high walk rate. His hits/innings rate is terrible as is his 6.97 ERA. His HR rate (10 in 50 IP) of 1.8 per 9 IP is more than twice Ryan's. Ryan's walks were a significant concern but he was otherwise tough to hit, gave up few hits or runs. Glasnow either walks the guy or gives up a hit. Then he gives up the run. He's very ineffective. I don't know how that would change as a middle reliever. He would just let those games get out of hand. He can't hit his spots. He's useless to this team. Let him work on that in AAA. If he can't master his pitches maybe as the Emperor would say, "It's time to find his life's work."
I was only referring to Nolan Ryan when he was very young was wild not necessarily his 21 year old season. Trying to compare his stats of yester year is very hard. Back in that day many pitchers had era's under 3. I stand by my comment that we don't have a clue whether Glasnow has a great baseball future or not and I believe he needs confidence more than anything and sending back to the minors will do nothing for his confidence. It's funny we can be patient with Cutch and Watson but we can't be with a rookie with lots of talent. It remains to be seen if he has the mental toughness to be a major league pitcher. I would do everything in my power to give him a opportunity to get it done if I were a manager or GM.
Watson would be just as bad in the 6th or 7th inning. Wait, maybe he doesn't like the pressure like McCutchen?
Nicasio probably needs stretched out. Maybe he can go longer?
Hurdle said Leblanc has better splits against righties and the Orioles have been reverse split guys. At least he had a reason.
Totally disagree that Glasnow should go to the minors, he should go to the pen. The guy can throw 100 mph, has a good curve/breaking ball. He just needs to get his feet on the ground. Nolan Ryan started out in the bullpen, many great pitchers started there.
If you think Hurdle had a good reason to bring in LeBlanc, you believe he had a good reason to bring in Watson. Now that's ridiculous.
Glasnow is far from Nolan Ryan. Jeff Locke started in the bullpen too. Glasnow doesn't throw strikes. He is one of the wildest pitches I have ever seen. No way would I want him coming into a game with men on base. Glasnow isn't ready for that.
I didn't say it was a good reason. I said at least he had a reason. If you noticed, I questioned bringing in Leblanc when it occurred.
In The 9th, I am still bringing in Watson up two runs. Who are you bringing in with the options available?
You obviously never saw Ryan pitch when he was 21ish. He was wild as he could be that's why the Mets traded him. I don't think we know what Glasnow is but I'm sure not ready to give up on him. I believe CH is totally misusing him, and may be risking his career. Again I will say it, put him in the pen, bring him in low pressure situations, let him get some confidence and lets see what he can do. He has all the tools just needs some confidence, that's my opinion.
Nolan Ryan as a 21-year old rookie started 18 of his 21 games. He was wild but gave up only 93 hits in 134 innings and had a good ERA of 3.09. His HR rate (12 in 134 IP) was 0.8 per 9 IP. He was with the Mets 3 more years after that. ERA was always below 4.00. Walks were always high but hits/innings was always low. The only thing Glasnow has in common is the high walk rate. His hits/innings rate is terrible as is his 6.97 ERA. His HR rate (10 in 50 IP) of 1.8 per 9 IP is more than twice Ryan's. Ryan's walks were a significant concern but he was otherwise tough to hit, gave up few hits or runs. Glasnow either walks the guy or gives up a hit. Then he gives up the run. He's very ineffective. I don't know how that would change as a middle reliever. He would just let those games get out of hand. He can't hit his spots. He's useless to this team. Let him work on that in AAA. If he can't master his pitches maybe as the Emperor would say, "It's time to find his life's work."
I was only referring to Nolan Ryan when he was very young was wild not necessarily his 21 year old season. Trying to compare his stats of yester year is very hard. Back in that day many pitchers had era's under 3. I stand by my comment that we don't have a clue whether Glasnow has a great baseball future or not and I believe he needs confidence more than anything and sending back to the minors will do nothing for his confidence. It's funny we can be patient with Cutch and Watson but we can't be with a rookie with lots of talent. It remains to be seen if he has the mental toughness to be a major league pitcher. I would do everything in my power to give him a opportunity to get it done if I were a manager or GM.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
June 6, D-Day, vs Orioles
7572637063323F060 wrote: I thought most people want the best pitcher to get out of jams? Isn't that Rivero? Why save Rivero for a chance to close the game?
What makes you think Watson would be better as a set up man or first guy in when a starter is in trouble?
I think Watson needs removed as the Closer, but I don't think Rivero should be wasted in that role. I like bringing in the best pitcher so the game isn't lost before the 9th.
Most teams have their best RP in the closer role. That's why the marketplace is much higher for RP's that close than those that set up. About the only time this is not correct is when a young P out pitches a successful closer, but usually the better guy ends up with the job. Rivero has no doubt earned the closer role with the Pirates and he should have the opportunity to earn the compensation that accompanies that role.
Great point Steve49
What makes you think Watson would be better as a set up man or first guy in when a starter is in trouble?
I think Watson needs removed as the Closer, but I don't think Rivero should be wasted in that role. I like bringing in the best pitcher so the game isn't lost before the 9th.
Most teams have their best RP in the closer role. That's why the marketplace is much higher for RP's that close than those that set up. About the only time this is not correct is when a young P out pitches a successful closer, but usually the better guy ends up with the job. Rivero has no doubt earned the closer role with the Pirates and he should have the opportunity to earn the compensation that accompanies that role.
Great point Steve49
June 6, D-Day, vs Orioles
Rivero isn't being used in the highest leverage situations. If that was the way he was being used, it certainly may make sense, but he's not and that's a fact.
The proof of that fact is that he's never closed. While the 9th definitely isn't always the highest leverage situation, it isn't NEVER the highest leverage situation.
Until he closes some, he's being used as nothing more than a setup man of varying degrees. If we would work him in to the 9th once in a while it would get him experience closing, and if successful, would dramatically increase his trade value if end up selling off.
So I don't get the reluctance to actually used him to close when the situation is right. It's not reality that he's being used in the highest leverage situations.
The proof of that fact is that he's never closed. While the 9th definitely isn't always the highest leverage situation, it isn't NEVER the highest leverage situation.
Until he closes some, he's being used as nothing more than a setup man of varying degrees. If we would work him in to the 9th once in a while it would get him experience closing, and if successful, would dramatically increase his trade value if end up selling off.
So I don't get the reluctance to actually used him to close when the situation is right. It's not reality that he's being used in the highest leverage situations.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
June 6, D-Day, vs Orioles
It's a fact that Rivero has pitched in more high leverage situation than any other bullpen pitcher.
There is no guarantee you get to the 9th inning if you save the best for that role. Hurdle did mention that and pointed out how Cleveland uses Andrew Miller. Miller hasn't closed out games either.
There is no guarantee you get to the 9th inning if you save the best for that role. Hurdle did mention that and pointed out how Cleveland uses Andrew Miller. Miller hasn't closed out games either.