726F4B4947220 wrote: Back to the topic at hand...Glasnow.
Glasnow hasn't only struggled at the big league level. If you look at his stats and generalize, you can assume that. However, I don't think that was always the case last season. He certainly had times when he looked overwhelmed. Then, other times he looked dominant. Even without his plus fastball.
This spring, I actually thought Glasnow looked very controlled. When things went bad, he never looked flustered. As a result, he was able to put things back together. His last start was a good example. He gave up a walk and then the HR on a curveball up in the zone. He stayed together and pitched a couple more good innings.
At this point, IMO, Glasnow struggles with two things. Some times his big frame lets him down and he misses bad with pitches (FB, curve, change). When everything is together, he is dominant. Secondly, he seems to be able to throw 5-6 "fantastic" pitches. Hits the edges or has tons of break. His fastball really moves in to right handers. But then he'll miss and leave one right in the zone.
I'm fine with him being in the majors. He isn't going to fix those things in the minors. In fact, he can get by missing in the minors a lot easier than missing in the majors. I'm anxious to see him pitch, but for now, I think we are going to see him be dominant and then have periods of struggle.
Yeah but the Pirates are in the business of trying to get to the playoffs, not giving on-the-job training. I think the "he's learned all he can in the minors" people are missing the point. This isn't 2005.
I think Tyler Webb did all you could ask from a rule 5 pick, and I think having him on the team would be a better result than having him on the Yankees so that we can put Glasnow in the rotation now. I DO like Glasnow, and not to much into this season, but I'm not sure that time is right now. (I'm probably making too much out of one rule 5 pick but that's what message boards are for, haha).
Glas-NOW time
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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johnfluharty
Glas-NOW time
I agree, pmike. I think his struggles at this point will primarily be physical as he continues to get comfortable with alterations in his pitching mechanics and grip.
Glas-NOW time
1D2F23233705262F2227282F4E0 wrote: Back to the topic at hand...Glasnow.
Glasnow hasn't only struggled at the big league level. If you look at his stats and generalize, you can assume that. However, I don't think that was always the case last season. He certainly had times when he looked overwhelmed. Then, other times he looked dominant. Even without his plus fastball.
This spring, I actually thought Glasnow looked very controlled. When things went bad, he never looked flustered. As a result, he was able to put things back together. His last start was a good example. He gave up a walk and then the HR on a curveball up in the zone. He stayed together and pitched a couple more good innings.
At this point, IMO, Glasnow struggles with two things. Some times his big frame lets him down and he misses bad with pitches (FB, curve, change). When everything is together, he is dominant. Secondly, he seems to be able to throw 5-6 "fantastic" pitches. Hits the edges or has tons of break. His fastball really moves in to right handers. But then he'll miss and leave one right in the zone.
I'm fine with him being in the majors. He isn't going to fix those things in the minors. In fact, he can get by missing in the minors a lot easier than missing in the majors. I'm anxious to see him pitch, but for now, I think we are going to see him be dominant and then have periods of struggle.
Yeah but the Pirates are in the business of trying to get to the playoffs, not giving on-the-job training. I think the "he's learned all he can in the minors" people are missing the point. This isn't 2005.
I think Tyler Webb did all you could ask from a rule 5 pick, and I think having him on the team would be a better result than having him on the Yankees so that we can put Glasnow in the rotation now. I DO like Glasnow, and not to much into this season, but I'm not sure that time is right now. (I'm probably making too much out of one rule 5 pick but that's what message boards are for, haha).
I'm with you on Webb. Though, I think Williams should have gone down to AAA to stay stretched out and be ready when the inevitable injury happens to a starter.
Glasnow hasn't only struggled at the big league level. If you look at his stats and generalize, you can assume that. However, I don't think that was always the case last season. He certainly had times when he looked overwhelmed. Then, other times he looked dominant. Even without his plus fastball.
This spring, I actually thought Glasnow looked very controlled. When things went bad, he never looked flustered. As a result, he was able to put things back together. His last start was a good example. He gave up a walk and then the HR on a curveball up in the zone. He stayed together and pitched a couple more good innings.
At this point, IMO, Glasnow struggles with two things. Some times his big frame lets him down and he misses bad with pitches (FB, curve, change). When everything is together, he is dominant. Secondly, he seems to be able to throw 5-6 "fantastic" pitches. Hits the edges or has tons of break. His fastball really moves in to right handers. But then he'll miss and leave one right in the zone.
I'm fine with him being in the majors. He isn't going to fix those things in the minors. In fact, he can get by missing in the minors a lot easier than missing in the majors. I'm anxious to see him pitch, but for now, I think we are going to see him be dominant and then have periods of struggle.
Yeah but the Pirates are in the business of trying to get to the playoffs, not giving on-the-job training. I think the "he's learned all he can in the minors" people are missing the point. This isn't 2005.
I think Tyler Webb did all you could ask from a rule 5 pick, and I think having him on the team would be a better result than having him on the Yankees so that we can put Glasnow in the rotation now. I DO like Glasnow, and not to much into this season, but I'm not sure that time is right now. (I'm probably making too much out of one rule 5 pick but that's what message boards are for, haha).
I'm with you on Webb. Though, I think Williams should have gone down to AAA to stay stretched out and be ready when the inevitable injury happens to a starter.
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OrlandoMerced
Glas-NOW time
I'm not sure what is the correct developmental course for Glasnow to establish himself as a ML pitcher. But I highly doubt that he establishes himself as a fixture in the Pirates rotation this season. He obviously has the highest ceiling, and it's not as though they Pirates have a ton to lose by giving Glasnow a chance to sink or swim as the #5 guy in the rotation in April. Especially with all the off days and likely rain outs that will take place this month. He'll have a pretty short leash and if he's not able to pitch in to the 6th inning all April, we'll likely get a look at Williams or Brault in the rotation. the season doesn't hinge on Glasnow's ability to hold down the 5th spot in the rotation, it hinges on the guys that they are depending on to do their job, and some steps forward from other guys.
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Bobster21
Glas-NOW time
172529293D0F2C25282D2225440 wrote: Back to the topic at hand...Glasnow.
Glasnow hasn't only struggled at the big league level. If you look at his stats and generalize, you can assume that. However, I don't think that was always the case last season. He certainly had times when he looked overwhelmed. Then, other times he looked dominant. Even without his plus fastball.
This spring, I actually thought Glasnow looked very controlled. When things went bad, he never looked flustered. As a result, he was able to put things back together. His last start was a good example. He gave up a walk and then the HR on a curveball up in the zone. He stayed together and pitched a couple more good innings.
At this point, IMO, Glasnow struggles with two things. Some times his big frame lets him down and he misses bad with pitches (FB, curve, change). When everything is together, he is dominant. Secondly, he seems to be able to throw 5-6 "fantastic" pitches. Hits the edges or has tons of break. His fastball really moves in to right handers. But then he'll miss and leave one right in the zone.
I'm fine with him being in the majors. He isn't going to fix those things in the minors. In fact, he can get by missing in the minors a lot easier than missing in the majors. I'm anxious to see him pitch, but for now, I think we are going to see him be dominant and then have periods of struggle.
Yeah but the Pirates are in the business of trying to get to the playoffs, not giving on-the-job training. I think the "he's learned all he can in the minors" people are missing the point. This isn't 2005.
I think Tyler Webb did all you could ask from a rule 5 pick, and I think having him on the team would be a better result than having him on the Yankees so that we can put Glasnow in the rotation now. I DO like Glasnow, and not to much into this season, but I'm not sure that time is right now. (I'm probably making too much out of one rule 5 pick but that's what message boards are for, haha).
I agree Sammy. I've said all along they can't afford extra losses while Glasnow learns on the job. By September, those will be the games we look back on and regret. I wanted to keep Webb. But I think the decision to keep both Williams (R) and LeBlanc (L) was directly due to the expectation that long relievers would get more work with Glasnow in the rotation so there was no room on the roster to stash a Rule 5 guy for limited work in blowouts. Based on ST, I would have let Williams start with Glasnow in the pen. See how his stuff works at the MLB level as a reliever before making him a starter. If Williams worked out, no problem. If Williams struggled, then insert Glasnow at #5. We all hope Glasnow fulfills that vast potential and this is the start of a great career. But from what he's shown so far, this is a risky move for a team whose best playoff hope is to have more wins than a handful of other good teams vying for a WC spot.
Glasnow hasn't only struggled at the big league level. If you look at his stats and generalize, you can assume that. However, I don't think that was always the case last season. He certainly had times when he looked overwhelmed. Then, other times he looked dominant. Even without his plus fastball.
This spring, I actually thought Glasnow looked very controlled. When things went bad, he never looked flustered. As a result, he was able to put things back together. His last start was a good example. He gave up a walk and then the HR on a curveball up in the zone. He stayed together and pitched a couple more good innings.
At this point, IMO, Glasnow struggles with two things. Some times his big frame lets him down and he misses bad with pitches (FB, curve, change). When everything is together, he is dominant. Secondly, he seems to be able to throw 5-6 "fantastic" pitches. Hits the edges or has tons of break. His fastball really moves in to right handers. But then he'll miss and leave one right in the zone.
I'm fine with him being in the majors. He isn't going to fix those things in the minors. In fact, he can get by missing in the minors a lot easier than missing in the majors. I'm anxious to see him pitch, but for now, I think we are going to see him be dominant and then have periods of struggle.
Yeah but the Pirates are in the business of trying to get to the playoffs, not giving on-the-job training. I think the "he's learned all he can in the minors" people are missing the point. This isn't 2005.
I think Tyler Webb did all you could ask from a rule 5 pick, and I think having him on the team would be a better result than having him on the Yankees so that we can put Glasnow in the rotation now. I DO like Glasnow, and not to much into this season, but I'm not sure that time is right now. (I'm probably making too much out of one rule 5 pick but that's what message boards are for, haha).
I agree Sammy. I've said all along they can't afford extra losses while Glasnow learns on the job. By September, those will be the games we look back on and regret. I wanted to keep Webb. But I think the decision to keep both Williams (R) and LeBlanc (L) was directly due to the expectation that long relievers would get more work with Glasnow in the rotation so there was no room on the roster to stash a Rule 5 guy for limited work in blowouts. Based on ST, I would have let Williams start with Glasnow in the pen. See how his stuff works at the MLB level as a reliever before making him a starter. If Williams worked out, no problem. If Williams struggled, then insert Glasnow at #5. We all hope Glasnow fulfills that vast potential and this is the start of a great career. But from what he's shown so far, this is a risky move for a team whose best playoff hope is to have more wins than a handful of other good teams vying for a WC spot.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Glas-NOW time
Maybe I'm also underestimating the value of so many off-days in the next month and how much we can skip the #5 start. Maybe the extra BP sessions "up here" can really help? I hope so. We'll see I guess.
Glas-NOW time
6C676F6366677C393F487169606767266B67080 wrote: Funny how Glasnow won the spring training competition and many don't care even though he wasn't the best either. So I ask, why are people ok with him but hated the idea of Hutchsion?
How was this explained to Williams and Brault when they had better springs? Why are the fans liking this move in general? Did the front office just lie (again) saying Glasnow won the job? Or was it that the fans wanted this so it wasn't an actual lie?
This is easy to answer. Glasnow is boom or bust. I'm fine with putting up with the potential to bust because of the potential to boom. Hutchison was potential meh or bust. Glasnow is high risk, high reward. Hutchison is high risk, low reward. I'm not willing to risk that. If Hutchison were guaranteed to give you 4.00 and 150 innings, fine. But he's as likely to put up an ERA north of 6 than he is to put up a 4. Glasnow might also put up an ERA of 6, but he is probably as likely to put up a 2.50. Glasnow and Hutchison aren't at all comparable.
It was management's opinion that Glasnow was the best option even though he didn't have the best spring training or won the competition. If management had that same opinion about Hutchison, this board, radio shows, and fans in general would be going nuts.
It just shows that people don't like Hutchison because how he was acquired. People like Glasnow because of the hype even though he was bad in the majors last year and in spring training.
This completely inaccurate! People don't want Hutchison because he stinks and has already shown at the MLB level he stinks. While I don't think Glasnow is ready I would rather see what we have in him rather than the mediocrity of Hutchison.
How was this explained to Williams and Brault when they had better springs? Why are the fans liking this move in general? Did the front office just lie (again) saying Glasnow won the job? Or was it that the fans wanted this so it wasn't an actual lie?
This is easy to answer. Glasnow is boom or bust. I'm fine with putting up with the potential to bust because of the potential to boom. Hutchison was potential meh or bust. Glasnow is high risk, high reward. Hutchison is high risk, low reward. I'm not willing to risk that. If Hutchison were guaranteed to give you 4.00 and 150 innings, fine. But he's as likely to put up an ERA north of 6 than he is to put up a 4. Glasnow might also put up an ERA of 6, but he is probably as likely to put up a 2.50. Glasnow and Hutchison aren't at all comparable.
It was management's opinion that Glasnow was the best option even though he didn't have the best spring training or won the competition. If management had that same opinion about Hutchison, this board, radio shows, and fans in general would be going nuts.
It just shows that people don't like Hutchison because how he was acquired. People like Glasnow because of the hype even though he was bad in the majors last year and in spring training.
This completely inaccurate! People don't want Hutchison because he stinks and has already shown at the MLB level he stinks. While I don't think Glasnow is ready I would rather see what we have in him rather than the mediocrity of Hutchison.
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Bobster21
Glas-NOW time
The Hutchison deal was very unpopular. IMHO not so much because a struggling Liriano was traded but because 2 prospects were dealt for an unsuccessful pitcher. One of the benefits of a strong farm system is that it enables you to trade some for good players. But trading them and Liriano for an unsuccessful guy like Hutchison was a head-scratcher. And at the time, NH admitted that "part of the incentive" for the deal was financial. He just didn't say how big a part. And he emphasized that getting Hutchison was important to the Pirates which, looking at his history, was puzzling.
But with all that said, I think fans would be delighted to see Hutchison turn into a good pitcher and be an asset to the rotation. If that someday happens, NH will get credit for making a shrewd deal. What was bothering many in ST was not that Hutchison was simply in the mix for the #5 spot. If he looked good no one would care anymore how he was acquired. It was that he was still not showing any reason to have acquired him in the first place much less put him in the rotation. Giving that job to Glasnow looks questionable too. But at least he has potential Hutchison hasn't even sniffed.
But with all that said, I think fans would be delighted to see Hutchison turn into a good pitcher and be an asset to the rotation. If that someday happens, NH will get credit for making a shrewd deal. What was bothering many in ST was not that Hutchison was simply in the mix for the #5 spot. If he looked good no one would care anymore how he was acquired. It was that he was still not showing any reason to have acquired him in the first place much less put him in the rotation. Giving that job to Glasnow looks questionable too. But at least he has potential Hutchison hasn't even sniffed.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Glas-NOW time
The thing is, if they just wanted rid of Liriano and his salary that badly, I'm convinced that somebody picks him up if they just expose him to waivers.
It probably would have been a better deal.
If he's being honest about Hutchison they probably could have still grabbed him 1-for-1 in exchange for one of the prospects.
It probably would have been a better deal.
If he's being honest about Hutchison they probably could have still grabbed him 1-for-1 in exchange for one of the prospects.
Glas-NOW time
On a slightly different note, I see Quintana gave up six runs in five and some fraction innings today to start the season at 0 - 1. Early season, small sample, etc., but enough to give pause at the (reported) asking price.