Gotta agree with Joe. This is hardly an imaginative article, just a realistic warning across the Pirates bow - if this team falters over the next couple of months the fans will "vote" with their feet. I truly believe this. Been saying it since the winter after the 2015 season.
The fans will respond not about the W-L record nearly so much as in disgust about the obvious FO motives of maximizing profits. KC or Cleveland could wind up in a WS. They have owners trying to win the darn thing. They make Nutting look very bad. If Cleveland is at the top of their division and the Pirates are fighting for a .500 record by the break, it won't be good at PNC.
So frustrating to have to deal with all of this once again, after a few years of real hope but undelivered promise.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe- ... 1704070127
Important article by Starky
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
Important article by Starky
I heard Perotto on Madden yesterday and he had some interesting stuff to say about both Neal and Clint not being extended beyond this season. He said he heard from an inside source that Hurdle is very frustrated at management for not spending more money on the team. So it should be interesting to see how things play out with these two if the season takes a turn for the worse.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Important article by Starky
04233236332E11253233332E570 wrote: Perotto on Madden
Blah.
Blah.
Important article by Starky
It has been a crusade by pretty much every sports person in Pittsburgh to spend nearly the entirety of their shows this week blasting the Pirates. You'd think this was 2002 and we had been hopeless for a decade with a terrible roster. I don't get it.
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Bobster21
Important article by Starky
1D002426284D0 wrote: It has been a crusade by pretty much every sports person in Pittsburgh to spend nearly the entirety of their shows this week blasting the Pirates. You'd think this was 2002 and we had been hopeless for a decade with a terrible roster. I don't get it.
Or it could be that after this FO turned the franchise around and became competitive (and said spending would increase when fan attendance increased and when the time was right), they still maintained one of the lowest payrolls in MLB by having very unproductive off seasons and letting the Pirates fall into non-contention last year and did little to change that this year. The Nutting regime seemed to be on the right track and then pulled back on the reins when they realized a serious contender requires more than minimal payroll. People used to be upset because the Bucs were a dismal franchise. Now they are upset because the FO seems to have taken a half-way approach after saying the goal was to win a championship.
Or it could be that after this FO turned the franchise around and became competitive (and said spending would increase when fan attendance increased and when the time was right), they still maintained one of the lowest payrolls in MLB by having very unproductive off seasons and letting the Pirates fall into non-contention last year and did little to change that this year. The Nutting regime seemed to be on the right track and then pulled back on the reins when they realized a serious contender requires more than minimal payroll. People used to be upset because the Bucs were a dismal franchise. Now they are upset because the FO seems to have taken a half-way approach after saying the goal was to win a championship.
Important article by Starky
604D40515647501013220 wrote: It has been a crusade by pretty much every sports person in Pittsburgh to spend nearly the entirety of their shows this week blasting the Pirates. You'd think this was 2002 and we had been hopeless for a decade with a terrible roster. I don't get it.
Or it could be that after this FO turned the franchise around and became competitive (and said spending would increase when fan attendance increased and when the time was right), they still maintained one of the lowest payrolls in MLB by having very unproductive off seasons and letting the Pirates fall into non-contention last year and did little to change that this year. The Nutting regime seemed to be on the right track and then pulled back on the reins when they realized a serious contender requires more than minimal payroll. People used to be upset because the Bucs were a dismal franchise. Now they are upset because the FO seems to have taken a half-way approach after saying the goal was to win a championship.
You're preaching to the choir here. I get that. You get that. Most of Pittsburgh gets it. I'm fine continuing to voice that perspective and "keeping a foot on that gas pedal." The reality is, that's just how it is going to be with this owner. No sense getting incessantly bent out of shape about it. It be clear, I'm not saying that's you Bobster. It's just a general vibe I feel. More importantly, this doomsday mentality isn't "simply" where this team is right now. That is one part of the story. There is a whole lot to be excited about with this team and this season. As opposed to a decade ago, there is hope now to make the playoffs. If we were in any other division in baseball, we'd be a favorite or a strong contender for the division.
Your perspective isn't wrong. There's just a lot more going on that than. It just feels as if nearly all of the conversation about the Pirates (radio, conversation around town, this board) at this point is negativity. Personally, I just don't get it.
Or it could be that after this FO turned the franchise around and became competitive (and said spending would increase when fan attendance increased and when the time was right), they still maintained one of the lowest payrolls in MLB by having very unproductive off seasons and letting the Pirates fall into non-contention last year and did little to change that this year. The Nutting regime seemed to be on the right track and then pulled back on the reins when they realized a serious contender requires more than minimal payroll. People used to be upset because the Bucs were a dismal franchise. Now they are upset because the FO seems to have taken a half-way approach after saying the goal was to win a championship.
You're preaching to the choir here. I get that. You get that. Most of Pittsburgh gets it. I'm fine continuing to voice that perspective and "keeping a foot on that gas pedal." The reality is, that's just how it is going to be with this owner. No sense getting incessantly bent out of shape about it. It be clear, I'm not saying that's you Bobster. It's just a general vibe I feel. More importantly, this doomsday mentality isn't "simply" where this team is right now. That is one part of the story. There is a whole lot to be excited about with this team and this season. As opposed to a decade ago, there is hope now to make the playoffs. If we were in any other division in baseball, we'd be a favorite or a strong contender for the division.
Your perspective isn't wrong. There's just a lot more going on that than. It just feels as if nearly all of the conversation about the Pirates (radio, conversation around town, this board) at this point is negativity. Personally, I just don't get it.
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OrlandoMerced
Important article by Starky
Meh on Hurdle. I think he's very replaceable.
And double meh to Starkey's article. Attendance is always going to be directly correlated to W/L, and no matter how much money you spend you cannot ensure a playoff spot. The Pirates are never going to guaranty success, and yes the Liriano trade sucked because it's a blatant salary dump. But I think they their position was that dumping Liriano was an addition by subtraction.
And double meh to Starkey's article. Attendance is always going to be directly correlated to W/L, and no matter how much money you spend you cannot ensure a playoff spot. The Pirates are never going to guaranty success, and yes the Liriano trade sucked because it's a blatant salary dump. But I think they their position was that dumping Liriano was an addition by subtraction.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
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Important article by Starky
Penguins attendance is depending on wins/losses too.
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Bobster21
Important article by Starky
1E0327252B4E0 wrote: It has been a crusade by pretty much every sports person in Pittsburgh to spend nearly the entirety of their shows this week blasting the Pirates. You'd think this was 2002 and we had been hopeless for a decade with a terrible roster. I don't get it.
Or it could be that after this FO turned the franchise around and became competitive (and said spending would increase when fan attendance increased and when the time was right), they still maintained one of the lowest payrolls in MLB by having very unproductive off seasons and letting the Pirates fall into non-contention last year and did little to change that this year. The Nutting regime seemed to be on the right track and then pulled back on the reins when they realized a serious contender requires more than minimal payroll. People used to be upset because the Bucs were a dismal franchise. Now they are upset because the FO seems to have taken a half-way approach after saying the goal was to win a championship.
You're preaching to the choir here. I get that. You get that. Most of Pittsburgh gets it. I'm fine continuing to voice that perspective and "keeping a foot on that gas pedal." The reality is, that's just how it is going to be with this owner. No sense getting incessantly bent out of shape about it. It be clear, I'm not saying that's you Bobster. It's just a general vibe I feel. More importantly, this doomsday mentality isn't "simply" where this team is right now. That is one part of the story. There is a whole lot to be excited about with this team and this season. As opposed to a decade ago, there is hope now to make the playoffs. If we were in any other division in baseball, we'd be a favorite or a strong contender for the division.
Your perspective isn't wrong. There's just a lot more going on that than. It just feels as if nearly all of the conversation about the Pirates (radio, conversation around town, this board) at this point is negativity. Personally, I just don't get it.
Agreed, Mike. Right or wrong, the focus is largely on what this FO has not done. Maybe by season's end we are all raving about this young rotation as the Bucs enter the playoffs. Personally, I really like Taillon (who doesn't?) and also Kuhl. And maybe Glasnow finally emerges. But these two lackluster off-seasons following a 98-win season leading to a 20 win-dip while maintaining a bottom-feeder payroll have created doubt where there used to be excitement and only a good season will change that. IMHO, this FO has to prove something now to the fans before that doubt can be erased.
Or it could be that after this FO turned the franchise around and became competitive (and said spending would increase when fan attendance increased and when the time was right), they still maintained one of the lowest payrolls in MLB by having very unproductive off seasons and letting the Pirates fall into non-contention last year and did little to change that this year. The Nutting regime seemed to be on the right track and then pulled back on the reins when they realized a serious contender requires more than minimal payroll. People used to be upset because the Bucs were a dismal franchise. Now they are upset because the FO seems to have taken a half-way approach after saying the goal was to win a championship.
You're preaching to the choir here. I get that. You get that. Most of Pittsburgh gets it. I'm fine continuing to voice that perspective and "keeping a foot on that gas pedal." The reality is, that's just how it is going to be with this owner. No sense getting incessantly bent out of shape about it. It be clear, I'm not saying that's you Bobster. It's just a general vibe I feel. More importantly, this doomsday mentality isn't "simply" where this team is right now. That is one part of the story. There is a whole lot to be excited about with this team and this season. As opposed to a decade ago, there is hope now to make the playoffs. If we were in any other division in baseball, we'd be a favorite or a strong contender for the division.
Your perspective isn't wrong. There's just a lot more going on that than. It just feels as if nearly all of the conversation about the Pirates (radio, conversation around town, this board) at this point is negativity. Personally, I just don't get it.
Agreed, Mike. Right or wrong, the focus is largely on what this FO has not done. Maybe by season's end we are all raving about this young rotation as the Bucs enter the playoffs. Personally, I really like Taillon (who doesn't?) and also Kuhl. And maybe Glasnow finally emerges. But these two lackluster off-seasons following a 98-win season leading to a 20 win-dip while maintaining a bottom-feeder payroll have created doubt where there used to be excitement and only a good season will change that. IMHO, this FO has to prove something now to the fans before that doubt can be erased.
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Bobster21
Important article by Starky
595E48404E591E126B4C464A4247054844462B0 wrote: Gotta agree with Joe. This is hardly an imaginative article, just a realistic warning across the Pirates bow - if this team falters over the next couple of months the fans will "vote" with their feet. I truly believe this. Been saying it since the winter after the 2015 season.
The fans will respond not about the W-L record nearly so much as in disgust about the obvious FO motives of maximizing profits. KC or Cleveland could wind up in a WS. They have owners trying to win the darn thing. They make Nutting look very bad. If Cleveland is at the top of their division and the Pirates are fighting for a .500 record by the break, it won't be good at PNC.
So frustrating to have to deal with all of this once again, after a few years of real hope but undelivered promise.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe- ... 1704070127
I loved the line about John Russell from the article:
You saw that happened last year, amid a 20-win dip (second largest in franchise history). Attendance dropped for the first time since 2009, the year it hit an 11-year low. About the only reason to come to a game back then was to see if manager John Russell could go all nine innings without moving a muscle.
I think Russell accomplished that feat many times.
BTW-Starkey is wrong about the 20-win dip being the 2nd largest in franchise history. Excluding strike-shortened seasons and pre-1900 years when number of games played varied from year to year, there were dips of 24 from 1909-1910, 22 from 1951-52, and 21 from 1992-93 as well as another 20-win dip from 1960-61.
The fans will respond not about the W-L record nearly so much as in disgust about the obvious FO motives of maximizing profits. KC or Cleveland could wind up in a WS. They have owners trying to win the darn thing. They make Nutting look very bad. If Cleveland is at the top of their division and the Pirates are fighting for a .500 record by the break, it won't be good at PNC.
So frustrating to have to deal with all of this once again, after a few years of real hope but undelivered promise.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe- ... 1704070127
I loved the line about John Russell from the article:
You saw that happened last year, amid a 20-win dip (second largest in franchise history). Attendance dropped for the first time since 2009, the year it hit an 11-year low. About the only reason to come to a game back then was to see if manager John Russell could go all nine innings without moving a muscle.
I think Russell accomplished that feat many times.
BTW-Starkey is wrong about the 20-win dip being the 2nd largest in franchise history. Excluding strike-shortened seasons and pre-1900 years when number of games played varied from year to year, there were dips of 24 from 1909-1910, 22 from 1951-52, and 21 from 1992-93 as well as another 20-win dip from 1960-61.