2024 Off-Season Thread

[3pirates3]

https://x.com/JonHeyman/status/1881737980907499576

[Babe Adams]

Santander's contract with the Jays averages about $18 million per year, certainly affordable for our Pirates. I wonder if we made any attempt to top it?

I think the five years is more important than the $18 million. Through the whole Nutting era back to 2007, it seems like the team's algorithm or whatever chokes on a free agency signing over three years (unless they're getting a discount on a player already under team control). I think their big signings have been Liriano for 3/$39 million, Nova 3/$26 million, Russell Martin 2/$17 million. It seemed they could have signed J.A. Happ if they had offered a fourth year, but decided against it. Pirates traded for Niese, signed for one season and an option, a couple of weeks later.

It's seemed to me that one of the ways to know things changed from Huntington to Cherington is to see them give that fourth year to someone.

[Doc]

Santander's contract with the Jays averages about $18 million per year, certainly affordable for our Pirates. I wonder if we made any attempt to top it?

I think the five years is more important than the $18 million. Through the whole Nutting era back to 2007, it seems like the team's algorithm or whatever chokes on a free agency signing over three years (unless they're getting a discount on a player already under team control). I think their big signings have been Liriano for 3/$39 million, Nova 3/$26 million, Russell Martin 2/$17 million. It seemed they could have signed J.A. Happ if they had offered a fourth year, but decided against it. Pirates traded for Niese, signed for one season and an option, a couple of weeks later.

It's seemed to me that one of the ways to know things changed from Huntington to Cherington is to see them give that fourth year to someone.

I think you make a fair point. It's the kind of risk the owner avoids. But couldn't they deal him away after three years if they don't like the length of the contract? If he's performing well through those years some other team would likely want him if they need a bat.

[Babe Adams]

I think you make a fair point. It's the kind of risk the owner avoids. But couldn't they deal him away after three years if they don't like the length of the contract? If he's performing well through those years some other team would likely want him if they need a bat.

Sure, they can, if he's still hitting. It just seems that whatever estimates they use get really pessimistic with additional years.

[Doc]

I think you make a fair point. It's the kind of risk the owner avoids. But couldn't they deal him away after three years if they don't like the length of the contract? If he's performing well through those years some other team would likely want him if they need a bat.

Sure, they can, if he's still hitting. It just seems that whatever estimates they use get really pessimistic with additional years.

He's going into his age-30 season so the number of years is a fair consideration by any team. But with the DH, better nutrition, tailor-made workouts, first-rate medical staffs, and great training equipment, many guys can extend their careers beyond what they could in the past. So being 30 isn't as negative as it once was. I just think the Pirates are more averse to taking risks that other teams will more easily dismiss. Of course, a big part of that is the money some teams have available for payroll over and above what the Pirates will earmark. The Pirates can't afford to miss on free agents like other teams can.

[Ecbucs]

I think you make a fair point. It's the kind of risk the owner avoids. But couldn't they deal him away after three years if they don't like the length of the contract? If he's performing well through those years some other team would likely want him if they need a bat.

Sure, they can, if he's still hitting. It just seems that whatever estimates they use get really pessimistic with additional years.

He's going into his age-30 season so the number of years is a fair consideration by any team. But with the DH, better nutrition, tailor-made workouts, first-rate medical staffs, and great training equipment, many guys can extend their careers beyond what they could in the past. So being 30 isn't as negative as it once was. I just think the Pirates are more averse to taking risks that other teams will more easily dismiss. Of course, a big part of that is the money some teams have available for payroll over and above what the Pirates will earmark. The Pirates can't afford to miss on free agents like other teams can.

Bob Nutting to Ben C. : We can't miss if I don't give you enough money to try.

[Doc]

Sure, they can, if he's still hitting. It just seems that whatever estimates they use get really pessimistic with additional years.

He's going into his age-30 season so the number of years is a fair consideration by any team. But with the DH, better nutrition, tailor-made workouts, first-rate medical staffs, and great training equipment, many guys can extend their careers beyond what they could in the past. So being 30 isn't as negative as it once was. I just think the Pirates are more averse to taking risks that other teams will more easily dismiss. Of course, a big part of that is the money some teams have available for payroll over and above what the Pirates will earmark. The Pirates can't afford to miss on free agents like other teams can.

Bob Nutting to Ben C. : We can't miss if I don't give you enough money to try.

Bob’s mighty good to Ben, isn’t he?

[Doc]

Ichiro, Sabathia, and Billy Wagner make it into the Hall of Fame. What an amazing baseball player Ichiro was! I wonder how many career hits he’d have had if he started in the states? I feel certain he’d have surpassed Pete Rose with room to spare.

[Javy]

Ichiro, Sabathia, and Billy Wagner make it into the Hall of Fame. What an amazing baseball player Ichiro was! I wonder how many career hits he’d have had if he started in the states? I feel certain he’d have surpassed Pete Rose with room to spare.

He likely would have. Was one of the finest all-around players ever. He didn't hit many HR's, but it was often said he could have if he chose to. He had an arm that could rival the best of them, and speed to turn any game around.

I think people also forget how dominant Sabathia was for the front end of his career. His later years sort of inflated his stats in a negative way as his pitches lost a little zip, but he was still effective.

Wagner was dominant for a long time too, even though, for the most part, he played on teams that lost more than they won. When he did get a chance to pitch in the post-season, he had a couple bad outings. but for the better part of 10 seasons, he was virtually un-hittable.