Could The Pirates Have Financial Problems

[mouse]

This (Bobster's) is about as accurate a summary as I have seen. I think Nutting wants a smooth running operation. He gives BC a budget amount each year and says, "Here's 80 MM. Knock yourself out. Build the best team you can." And that's it. Once we understand that's reality, we can look at moves made within the limitations and assess from there.

[Doc]

Doc, I don't see it as a problem for Nutting. We're all familiar enough with Nutting's ways to know that his interest is in maintaining a profitable sports franchise with little interest in success on the field. I realize when we say things like that it just sounds like we're just bashing the guy. But if we're being realistic, that's the situation. The fans and the media can talk about "now is the time to build a winner around Skenes," but there is a disconnect between what the fans and media want and what Nutting wants. Nutting has always been satisfied with the unsuccessful product on the field. He wasn't waiting for a stud player to turn the franchise into a winner. He was satisfied with how things were before Skenes and he'll be satisfied with how things are after Skenes is gone. While he's a Pirate, Skenes is a great gate attraction and a reason for fans to maintain interest. Nothing more, nothing less. In a few years he'll be traded for a package of prospects who we will be told will turn the franchise around. Eventually.

I kind of think we're saying the same thing. I use the word "problem" because Skenes creates a situation where the fans and media will be more vocal in wanting Nutting to bring players here who can help for as long as Skenes is here. If Skenes weren't a Pirate, far fewer would be chirping at Nutting to act like a real owner who wants to win because most of us know that's not his priority.

Nutting's happy Skenes is a Pirate only on the nights he pitches because of the attendance boost. He's basically a parttime employee who shows up to work one day a week, and is so good that he raises revenues for that night. But when he's not working the other days, revenues fall. Nutting's okay with that because he offsets those lower revenue nights by keeping his costs to a minimum. The man's running a business. Whether it's widgets or baseball, it's all the same to him.

[fjk090852-7]

It seems like wishful thinking to believe the Pirates' customary level of offseason inactivity is due to financial problems restricting them from otherwise acting like a real team and making significant moves to beef up the team. But there hasn't been any indication that the Pirates intended to operate any differently this offseason from what we normally see. Some fans and media want to believe it would be different now that they have a stud like Skenes for a few years. But the team seems to be following its standard operating procedure. This is what they do. There doesn't have to be any big behind the scenes story to explain why they aren't doing something completely different.

You make very good points, and probably they are not having financial difficulties, but I am of the belief and hope that this offseason will be different than the past years. What Skenes did last year is phenomenal. Why waste an opportunity to play in the postseason when you have that type of talent, and the team is paying him pre arbitration money? If they procrastinate, and not upgrade the roster to compete in the Central Division, I will be very disappointed.

I wish I had your optimism but there's no reason to believe the Pirates will do anything differently than they have in the past. The owner has found success (profit) in doing what he's been doing in previous years. He took chances in 2013, '14, and '15 and the result was no championship, just like there was no title in all the other years when he took no risks. He figures, what's the point?

As for Skenes, he's a problem for Nutting. As long as he's here, the expectations will be that Nutting quickly build a team around Skenes, which means acquiring expensive players through trades or free agency. That's the kind of pressure he wants nothing to do with. The quicker Skenes is gone, the quicker the pressure goes away.

I guess I am partially optimistic because there are many free agents still available that in my opinion the Pirates could pursue. I know Nutting will never pursue a first class free agent as Hernandez. Last offseason the Pirates spent in the 30 million dollar range for free agents. Why not allocate the similar amount for this offseason? Go after players like Kepler, Austin Hayes or even Pederson for the corner outfield position. Bring Cutch back and add a couple mid range bullpen arms for depth and then get ready for Bradenton. These types of players are still available on December 18th, so timing is important to get these players signed.

[Doc]

You make very good points, and probably they are not having financial difficulties, but I am of the belief and hope that this offseason will be different than the past years. What Skenes did last year is phenomenal. Why waste an opportunity to play in the postseason when you have that type of talent, and the team is paying him pre arbitration money? If they procrastinate, and not upgrade the roster to compete in the Central Division, I will be very disappointed.

I wish I had your optimism but there's no reason to believe the Pirates will do anything differently than they have in the past. The owner has found success (profit) in doing what he's been doing in previous years. He took chances in 2013, '14, and '15 and the result was no championship, just like there was no title in all the other years when he took no risks. He figures, what's the point?

As for Skenes, he's a problem for Nutting. As long as he's here, the expectations will be that Nutting quickly build a team around Skenes, which means acquiring expensive players through trades or free agency. That's the kind of pressure he wants nothing to do with. The quicker Skenes is gone, the quicker the pressure goes away.

I guess I am partially optimistic because there are many free agents still available that in my opinion the Pirates could pursue. I know Nutting will never pursue a first class free agent as Hernandez. Last offseason the Pirates spent in the 30 million dollar range for free agents. Why not allocate the similar amount for this offseason? Go after players like Kepler, Austin Hayes or even Pederson for the corner outfield position. Bring Cutch back and add a couple mid range bullpen arms for depth and then get ready for Bradenton. These types of players are still available on December 18th, so timing is important to get these players signed.

But every year there are free agents still available on December 18. And the Pirates actions are always the same: wait until all the good players are signed and then pick up the leftovers no one else wants. Why should we expect anything differently?

I don't expect Nutting to sign someone like Soto but there's no question that the Pirates can pay the salary of a player like Bellinger. I doubt that they will, though. Of the players you listed, Pederson is the only one who interests me. The others won't have the impact that's needed in the line-up. The team needs a guy capable of hitting 30 HRs. With the short RF wall at PNC, Pederson has a chance to do that.

[fjk090852-7]

Just noticed that the Pirates projected payroll for 2025 which includes proposed arbitration costs and the players not arbitration eligible is appropriate $71,700 million. I now wonder how much money Bob Nutting has given Ben Cherington to spend on free agents? I doubt he has given him $30 million like the Pirates spent last year. What a darn shame the Pirates cannot spend a little over $100 million in order give this team a chance to compete for the postseason.

[fjk090852-7]

There are still some corner outfielders who should fall in the Pirates price range, which they should pursue as well as sign before they sign with other teams. The owner should open his wallet, and be less of Scrooge, so this team can compete with the strong pitching staff which they now have.

[Doc]

There are still some corner outfielders who should fall in the Pirates price range, which they should pursue as well as sign before they sign with other teams. The owner should open his wallet, and be less of Scrooge, so this team can compete with the strong pitching staff which they now have.

If there are players who fall into the Pirates "price range" still available, it's because few, if any, other teams are interested in them. They're not very good players and they're not going help a team win. The Pirates have a roster filled with those kinds of players already. It's why we only win 76 games a year.