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A Couple of Comments

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:18 pm
by MaineBucs
Overall, I like what BC has done , but:



1) Why are the Pirates, who have below average starters and a circumspect bullpen, now regularly using the bullpen starter approach? If you want to take a look at Beede as a starter (who was a reliever who didn't pitch high leverage innings) fine, but, you should have someone else in the pen who could be expected to go another 3+ innings.



2) Last night illustrated the folly of the bullpen start approach. Early in last night's game (I believe it was the second) it appeared that Thompson may need to leave the game because of injury. While he remained in the game, asking/expecting a pen that is mostly composed of recent cast-offs to throw 6 or so innings 2 nights in a row is a bit much.



3) Unsure if I heard it correctly last night, but I believe it was noted that 56 players have appeared on the 26 man active roster this year. No wonder my feeble brain is having trouble keeping up with what is going on.



4) And, as was noted in an earlier thread, Contreas pitching at Indy when Tyler Beede is now a starter?



5) I am excited to see the sheer volume of rookies/young players getting a shot this year, but if management has any expectations of competing next year, someone needs to be able to convince Nutting to be willing to spend some money on pitching. And, there should be some money available. No Yoshi - $4 mil, no Pena - $5 mil, likely no Newman - $3 mil and no Gamel -$1.5 mil, and minor savings on other veterans (Underwood & Peters). Further, even though it is (very) small change, slowing down the merry-go-round of constant player turn-over should save some dollars. Bucs need to take a risk and try to bring in a veteran arm or 2 on 2 or 3 year contracts.



6) JVM is an enigma. It appears that he may be here through the end of the season. I don't get it, but, I have decided not to comment on it anymore.



7) Arizona's announcers were incredulous over Castro having his cell phone in his back pocket. That said, likely preferable to the late 70's - early 80's when too many players regularly had vials of cocaine on them when they were playing.



8) With the number of remaining games in the season dwindling, it is hard to identify many Pirate players who are exceeding expectations. On offense, perhaps Chavis (I had no real expectations for him entering the season). On the pitching front, perhaps Kellar who is showing some signs of consistency. Otherwise, not much. In short, this is not encouraging.



9) Lastly, couldn't sleep last night. Actually watched the last 4 innings of the Yankees/Mariners 13 inning 1-0 Mariners win. In the 10th, 11th, and 12th, the Yankees ran themselves into multiple stupid outs, and actually ended up wiping out their ghost runner on the bases, and even having 2 players thrown out on the bases in run-downs on the same play. The Yankees are one of the best teams in baseball. If this had happened to the Pirates, I would have cited it as evidence that Shelton and others must go.

A Couple of Comments

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:56 pm
by WildwoodDave2
Good post Maine. I would like to add that Cherington's plan should

start paying dividend. He has been stockpiling players at similar

positions and will now have bargaining chips to put together deals by adding veterans like Newman, Gamel and let's say Mitchell in a trade for a pitcher.

A Couple of Comments

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:33 pm
by Bobster21
Maybe the Pirates just aren't too concerned about pitching. They are very analytics driven and pitching in MLB these days isn't what it used to be. Currently there are only 19 qualifying starters with ERAs under 3.00. That's not even 1 per team. And only 1 of them (Alcantara) is averaging 7 innings per start.



Even a #1 or #2 starter these days is basically a 5-6 inning pitcher, occasionally getting into the 7th. If we look for Keller or Contreras or Priester to become future aces, they still need the BP to generally cover a third of the games. So I guess quality pithing isn't as important as it used to be. The Pirates aren't going to pay for pitching, especially with 100 pitch counts and 3rd time thru the order "rules" that limit the innings for even the best pitchers. They'll probably always settle for guys like Brubaker, Thompson and Wilson to be adequate for 5 or 6 innings with someone like Keller not great but a notch above them.

A Couple of Comments

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:29 pm
by maher.timothy20@gm
Even if we put the pitching aside, it's worth wondering if this rebuild is leading anywhere.



Aside from Cruz and Hayes (who both need to improve in various areas) and Bryan Reynolds, what's left?



Suwinski is a good story but he still strikes out too much and there's no guarantee he'll stick as a major leaguer. Pegeuro and Nick Gonzalez, presumably the future of the infield, are both having mediocre seasons. Bae might be good but hasn't proven anything yet.



I don't see any guaranteed third outfielder coming along. Cal Mitchell? Madris? Maybe, maybe not. Matt Frazier was all the rage last year but he's not doing much this year. Nobody thinks Swaggerty will be much more than a fourth outfielder.



And so on.



Maybe the next "window" would have been right now if we'd simply held on to Josh Bell, Joe Musgrove, Taillon, Glasnow, Shane Baz ...

A Couple of Comments

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:01 pm
by Ecbucs
5A565F524519435E5A58435F4E050777505A370 wrote: Even if we put the pitching aside, it's worth wondering if this rebuild is leading anywhere.



Aside from Cruz and Hayes (who both need to improve in various areas) and Bryan Reynolds, what's left?



Suwinski is a good story but he still strikes out too much and there's no guarantee he'll stick as a major leaguer. Pegeuro and Nick Gonzalez, presumably the future of the infield, are both having mediocre seasons. Bae might be good but hasn't proven anything yet.



I don't see any guaranteed third outfielder coming along. Cal Mitchell? Madris? Maybe, maybe not. Matt Frazier was all the rage last year but he's not doing much this year. Nobody thinks Swaggerty will be much more than a fourth outfielder.



And so on.



Maybe the next "window" would have been right now if we'd simply held on to Josh Bell, Joe Musgrove, Taillon, Glasnow, Shane Baz ...


speaking of Josh Bell, how did his defense improve so much after getting dealt to the Nats? He is certainly not a plus defender after leaving the Bucs but he was a big liability with the glove here and isn't that anymore.

A Couple of Comments

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:36 pm
by Bobster21
062021362030430 wrote: Even if we put the pitching aside, it's worth wondering if this rebuild is leading anywhere.



Aside from Cruz and Hayes (who both need to improve in various areas) and Bryan Reynolds, what's left?



Suwinski is a good story but he still strikes out too much and there's no guarantee he'll stick as a major leaguer. Pegeuro and Nick Gonzalez, presumably the future of the infield, are both having mediocre seasons. Bae might be good but hasn't proven anything yet.



I don't see any guaranteed third outfielder coming along. Cal Mitchell? Madris? Maybe, maybe not. Matt Frazier was all the rage last year but he's not doing much this year. Nobody thinks Swaggerty will be much more than a fourth outfielder.



And so on.



Maybe the next "window" would have been right now if we'd simply held on to Josh Bell, Joe Musgrove, Taillon, Glasnow, Shane Baz ...


speaking of Josh Bell, how did his defense improve so much after getting dealt to the Nats?  He is certainly not a plus defender after leaving the Bucs but he was a big liability with the glove here and isn't that anymore.


I read somewhere that he credited the Nats coaches for helping improve his defense. It's a familiar story. Players struggle with an aspect of their game as Pirates and their next organization corrects the problem.

A Couple of Comments

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:31 pm
by WildwoodDave2
624F42535445521211200 wrote: Maybe the Pirates just aren't too concerned about pitching. They are very analytics driven and pitching in MLB these days isn't what it used to be. Currently there are only 19 qualifying starters with ERAs under 3.00. That's not even 1 per team. And only 1 of them (Alcantara) is averaging 7 innings per start.



Even a #1 or #2 starter these days is basically a 5-6 inning pitcher, occasionally getting into the 7th. If we look for Keller or Contreras or Priester to become future aces, they still need the BP to generally cover a third of the games. So I guess quality pithing isn't as important as it used to be. The Pirates aren't going to pay for pitching, especially with 100 pitch counts and 3rd time thru the order "rules" that limit the innings for even the best pitchers. They'll probably always settle for guys like Brubaker, Thompson and Wilson to be adequate for 5 or 6 innings with someone like Keller not great but a notch above them.

A Couple of Comments

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:37 pm
by WildwoodDave2
0B2D2C3B2D3D4E0 wrote: Even if we put the pitching aside, it's worth wondering if this rebuild is leading anywhere.



Aside from Cruz and Hayes (who both need to improve in various areas) and Bryan Reynolds, what's left?



Suwinski is a good story but he still strikes out too much and there's no guarantee he'll stick as a major leaguer. Pegeuro and Nick Gonzalez, presumably the future of the infield, are both having mediocre seasons. Bae might be good but hasn't proven anything yet.



I don't see any guaranteed third outfielder coming along. Cal Mitchell? Madris? Maybe, maybe not. Matt Frazier was all the rage last year but he's not doing much this year. Nobody thinks Swaggerty will be much more than a fourth outfielder.



And so on.



Maybe the next "window" would have been right now if we'd simply held on to Josh Bell, Joe Musgrove, Taillon, Glasnow, Shane Baz ...


speaking of Josh Bell, how did his defense improve so much after getting dealt to the Nats?  He is certainly not a plus defender after leaving the Bucs but he was a big liability with the glove here and isn't that anymore.


I posted earlier that I saw Pegeuro and Frazier play

August 2 in Altoona. Only one game but they were a com-

bined 0-8. Pegeuro didn't run out a fly ball which pi$$ed me off

A Couple of Comments

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:38 pm
by WildwoodDave2
7846434B5840404B6B4E594A1D2F0 wrote: Maybe the Pirates just aren't too concerned about pitching. They are very analytics driven and pitching in MLB these days isn't what it used to be. Currently there are only 19 qualifying starters with ERAs under 3.00. That's not even 1 per team. And only 1 of them (Alcantara) is averaging 7 innings per start.



Even a #1 or #2 starter these days is basically a 5-6 inning pitcher, occasionally getting into the 7th. If we look for Keller or Contreras or Priester to become future aces, they still need the BP to generally cover a third of the games. So I guess quality pithing isn't as important as it used to be. The Pirates aren't going to pay for pitching, especially with 100 pitch counts and 3rd time thru the order "rules" that limit the innings for even the best pitchers. They'll probably always settle for guys like Brubaker, Thompson and Wilson to be adequate for 5 or 6 innings with someone like Keller not great but a notch above them.

I agree with all you said here

A Couple of Comments

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:54 pm
by WildwoodDave2
Bob Nutting is now in the Whiskey. Story in today's PG.