OnlyBucs

The more that I think about needs for next season,I ask do the Pirates need an additional starting pitcher, more middle relief help, or power. I think they need all three to challenge teams in their division. I am sure they are not going to sign a big free agent pitcher this offseason, nor do I expect them to sign a big power bat. They could make a couple trades to fill some of their needs, but whom do they trade? Do they trade one or two of their current outfielders? Do they trade some of their young pitchers? I think it will be an interesting offseason, and if they only do the bare minimum like they have done the past two offseasons I will say that the Reds will pass them in the standings and we will be the last place team in 2018.

Yes they can be competitive in 2018. And they can do it without adding much to the team!



Simply figure out a way for the teams they play to forfeit 65% of the games they play against the Buccos!

55747C557E76110 wrote: Yes they can be competitive in 2018. And they can do it without adding much to the team!



Simply figure out a way for the teams they play to forfeit 65% of the games they play against the Buccos! 
LOL!!! Maybe they could bribe the other teams with prospects.

4C616C7D7A6B7C3C3F0E0 wrote: Yes they can be competitive in 2018. And they can do it without adding much to the team!



Simply figure out a way for the teams they play to forfeit 65% of the games they play against the Buccos! 
LOL!!! Maybe they could bribe the other teams with prospects.


This is the kind of out of the box thinking that a small mkt team with the smallest fan base in all of sports, who if they work really really hard can almost get to average attendance with the rest of the teams (I can almost feel Neal patting us on the head "good little Pirate fans...") NEEDS to engage in.



Besides, if Neal bribes the other teams with "prospects" it doesn't matter because if Neal gives them away they aren't really prospects at all! So the bribe really costs us nothing! BRILLIANT!

373B3A6168616964637C66510 wrote: The more that I think about needs for next season,I ask do the Pirates need an additional starting pitcher, more middle relief help, or power. I think they need all three to challenge teams in their division. I am sure they are not going to sign a big free agent pitcher this offseason, nor do I expect them to sign a big power bat. They could make a couple trades to fill some of their needs, but whom do they trade? Do they trade one or two of their current outfielders? Do they trade some of their young pitchers? I think it will be an interesting offseason, and if they only do the bare minimum like they have done the past two offseasons I will say that the Reds will pass them in the standings and we will be the last place team in 2018.


I think your post is dead-on. I stated in a game thread last night I think, that the Pirates are worse team in the division as of now. There is no reason, at this time, to think the Pirates are going to suddenly be better next year. For everyone that thinks Marte and Kang were the problems this year, I asked a simple Q - what is the Pirates record this year when Marte is in the lineup? So what if Marte plays all of next year? And we all know Kang is not going to be here. So, why is there any reason to think next year is going to be better?



Maybe the rotation will be better. But how much? Bell can become a great player. Who else? Otherwise no power, little gap power, nothing special with average, bad base running, poor defense, mostly poor bullpen.



There is no reason to expect this team to be much better next year UNLESS nutting bumps up the payroll to allow a couple truly GOOD players to be added and Neal does a good job with trades. Otherwise, I agree - I expect the Pirates to be the worse team in the division next year, just as they are now.

They will not.



Polanco should improve.  Nowhere to go but up.  Ditto for Marte.



Cutch may be gone by the start of the season and surely by the trade deadline.  And/Or his decline may continue.  Either way, we won't get as much from his spot in the lineup.



Freese won't get better.  So, unless Kang returns, it hard to see 3B improving.  Even if Kang does return, he may be pretty rusty.



Mercer is past prime.  He'll be steady, but not likely to be better in the field or at the plate.



Harrison had a decent season.  He could recreate it, but probably won't be a lot better.



Bell should continue to make progress. He could become a star.



Cervelli may play a bit better, but he isn't likely to develop more power all of a sudden. And he probably will have similar health problems.



The bench should have Osuna, Moroff, and Frazier improving.  S-Rod will probably give us what we've gotten this year.  Diaz will be a big improvement on Stewart offensively.



Cole will be frustratingly Cole.  Taillon will be better.  Nova?  Dunno, but probably the mix of great and very hittable that we've seen this season.  Williams may not improve a lot as he's been really good for his talent.  Kuhl/Glasnow probably gives us what we've had from Kuhl this year.



The bullpen has to improve except for Rivero.



The one thing that could make them significantly better would be outlier seasons from guys received in trade for Cutch and Cole.  But that's unlikely and also not likely to happen as NH won't trade Cutch and Cole because of the gate hit it will create.



So, I don't see a path to them being a lot better unless Polanco really breaks out and two of SPs pitch much better than we have seen them.  But there are no signs of that coming. :'(

Personally, I'm more and more convinced that they should blow the whole thing up. Trade Cutch, Cole, Marte, Polanco, Mercer, Cervelli, Harrison, everybody. Maybe even Tailllon. This team is not good, and they aren't getting any younger or better. Blow it up. Start from scratch. I agree with VA. This is the worst team in the division.

I think Osuna will end up as part of a trade along with one of the AAA-AA pitchers. No spot on the team for him with Bell.

I can easily see a trade with Osuna and a pitcher paired to get something they want - hopefully a real outfielder or third baseman. They certainly do lack power, but they also lack decent fielders. They give away a lot of runs. For a team that is built around pitching, they aren't helping their pitchers any at all.

The 2017 Pittsburgh Pirates are lousy. Looking at all meaningful offensive, defensive and pitching category statistics for the 15 National League teams the Pirates are in the top half as a team only in triples (5th), hit-by-pitch (1st) and ERA (7th).



Those numbers don't even really reflect the fact that this team is near the bottom 2 or 3 teams in almost all meaningful offensive stats. They have little power and speed, and with the exception of Josh Bell and Starling Marte don't have any hitters who one would reasonably expect to improve markedly over what we've seen them do this season.



In general this is a team with position players who will be 30 or over in 2018 (Cervelli, Mercer, Harrison, McCutchen, Freese, Rodriguez, Stewart) and younger players with significant issues (Frazier-defense, Polanco-enigma, Osuna-no position). Maybe Diaz, Moroff and Luplow will develop quickly at the major league level in the next year, but do any of those three look to be making the 2018 all-star game? The Pirates will be fortunate to have 2 of those 3 be competent major leaguers by next summer. As far as help from the minor league system goes Austin Meadows has gone from a stud to an injury prone dud. He's got a lot to prove next year at AAA before he gets a sniff in the majors.



The starting pitching is young and has potential, but as we've seen with Gerrit Cole young pitchers can progress and regress season to season, and even within seasons. There is legitimate hope here but with a pedestrian defense behind them and an offense that looks to offer very little support it will be a heavy burden for a young pitching staff to endure.



The Bucs won't compete in 2018 because they have a dreadful offense, a poor defense, a young pitching staff with too many variables, and an owner who won't spend what's needed to shore up the areas of weakness to improve the team.



What you're seeing now is pretty much what you'll get next season.