OnlyBucs

USA Today has an article about how little MLB managers make relative to the players. Hurdle is listed as the 7th highest paid at 3 million per year. Which, in Nutting dollars, is a bazillion gajillion dollars so don't expect Hurdle to be fired before his contract expires 3 more years from now.



The article also says:



Managers are terrified to disagree with their front offices for fear it will cost them their jobs.



“It’s different now,’’ Maddon said, “with front offices seeking out managers who are able to assimilate with them better, and accept the methods. If guys coming up don’t want to accept analytics, numbers and methods in that regard, you pretty much eliminate your chance of becoming a major-league manager.’’



So this again sounds like the office nerds tell NH what he should do and he tells Hurdle what to do. No wonder Hurdle always looks like a guy with nothing on his mind except his chewing gum and doesn't seem to be invested in winning games. Maybe he feels NH is running the show and he [Hurdle] isn't responsible one way or the other.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/m ... 102815002/

That is fascinating to think about. If we are moving to an era where most of the in game decisions are made ahead of time with the consultation of front office staffers, it makes sense that you'd want younger managers with very little reputation. You don't want an ego in the role of manager that will disregard the analytics and feel as if they have the authority to manage from their gut.



In the micro, that paints the whole extra inning affair from last week in a different picture. What if taking Brault out of the game was predetermined before the game even began? What if there are penalties/consequences for Hurdle if he disregards the analytical statements that have been offered up for him? Going into every game, are there numbers that say how many at bats each guy needs to get? How many pitchers each man on the roster can pitch? Expectations on who will pinch hit against each relief pitcher out of the opposing bullpen?



If that is the case, Hurdle is probably a perfect manager. Assuming he abides by the FO analytical team's requests, his role (other than chomping on gum) is morale officer. PR guy to the world beyond the clubhouse. He is the team psychologist. In that regard, I actually like what he does. While fans get all up and down game to game, I like Clint's laid back, not too high, not too low personality. When you are playing 200 games a year, you sort of have to have that approach with the team. Especially if the decisions aren't really on him.



I don't know, but that is a thought provoking article

This is interesting on several fronts.



1. I simply cannot believe the Pirates have the 7th highest paid manager. Now I'm guessing most of that has to do with longevity, but still. But whatever, that means the Pirates are NOT firing a guy making $3M per year. No way. So that scenario is officially off the table.



2. I have always wondered who truly determines the lineup, who makes the roster/personnel decisions, who decides that S-Rod should play 3 days in a row, who decides that we need to start Clay Holmes in the middle of a winning streak, etc.



3. Sounds like the analytics folks are feeding NH all of the information and data, NH is making the call, and he is telling Hurdle what to do. Hurdles says, "Ok, got it. When's the next shipment of Double Bubble scheduled to arrive?'



I would absolutely love to know how all of this unfolds day to day behind the scenes. Is Hurdle just a "yes man," or does he fight directives from upstairs ... knowing that his job is 100% secure thanks to the $3M salary.

6E4C5F424144434C6F584E4E422D0 wrote: This is interesting on several fronts.



1. I simply cannot believe the Pirates have the 7th highest paid manager. Now I'm guessing most of that has to do with longevity, but still. But whatever, that means the Pirates are NOT firing a guy making $3M per year. No way. So that scenario is officially off the table.



2. I have always wondered who truly determines the lineup, who makes the roster/personnel decisions, who decides that S-Rod should play 3 days in a row, who decides that we need to start Clay Holmes in the middle of a winning streak, etc.



3. Sounds like the analytics folks are feeding NH all of the information and data, NH is making the call, and he is telling Hurdle what to do. Hurdles says, "Ok, got it. When's the next shipment of Double Bubble scheduled to arrive?'



I would absolutely love to know how all of this unfolds day to day behind the scenes. Is Hurdle just a "yes man," or does he fight directives from upstairs ... knowing that his job is 100% secure thanks to the $3M salary.
On the Holmes issue, we know that NH made the roster move to recall Holmes from AAA just for that game and said it had been planned for awhile. I don't know how Hurdle felt about it (or if he even cared) but that one was clearly a NH decision.

Whenever talk of managers comes up, I'm reminded of this article from a few years ago.



https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news ... a-manager/



There are certainly guys who are better at what they do than others and they're tied to their records, but I feel that most of the time there is a lot more going on than we as fans ever see or know. And if we DO find out about such issues it means the MGR as the "face" probably isn't doing his job.

Very interesting insights! Could it be that Hurdle is simply a glorified babysitter, while on field strategy which used to be under the purview of the manager is now determined by wags in the front office? Seems like a distinct possibility.

A better question is how much is our GM being paid to never win even 1 Division Championship?

43677E69647F697C080 wrote: A better question is how much is our GM being paid to never win even 1 Division Championship?


So having the 2nd best record in all of baseball from 2013-2015 doesn't count? It was just extreme misfortune that we happened to be in the same division as the Cardinals who had a better record than us all 3 years not due to anything NH did or didn't do during that period. I guess based on your logic, NH must be incompetent because he chose a NL central team to be the GM of instead of being in any other division. Yeah, that is pretty stupid of him.

7D594D45402C0 wrote: Very interesting insights! Could it be that Hurdle is simply a glorified babysitter, while on field strategy which used to be under the purview of the manager  is now determined by wags in the front office? Seems like a distinct possibility.


Based on Neal's comments about the Denver lineup, we know that the analytics department played a role in determining the pitching rotation.



While Clint may make the actual call, defensive shifts are analytically driven.



I strongly suspect that the whole rest day thing is analytically driven.



I would be surprised if the batting lineups weren't analytically driven.



The number of pitches thrown/times threw the lineup is probably analytically driven.



This is not to say that analytics are bad. I happen to believe they played a large role during the playoff years, but right now, they aren't getting the job done.

Wasn't that the whole premise of MoneyBall? Art Howe was angry because he was old school and wanted to run the team once he had the players, and management had its own ideas. As a side note, in that sort of situation it's always better to be on the side that controls the money. Hurdle, I suspect, understands that.