OnlyBucs

I don't like Maddon, but I respect his expectations whereas Huddle appears to have none (notwithstanding a one-game suspension where Marte pinched hit).



https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/cubs/ ... gley-field

Hurdle benched Marte for lack of hustle on August 20. Final score, Braves 1, Pirates 0.

0F030A07104C160B0F0D160A1B505222050F620 wrote: Hurdle benched Marte for lack of hustle on August 20. Final score, Braves 1, Pirates 0.


Yeah, and as I mentioned Marte came to the plate late in the game.



The almost-one game notwithstanding, There is little to suggest Hurdle has held anyone accountable with respect to effort.



John Jaso comes to mind....

3235232B2532757900272D21292C6E232F2D400 wrote: Hurdle benched Marte for lack of hustle on August 20. Final score, Braves 1, Pirates 0.


Yeah, and as I mentioned Marte came to the plate late in the game. 



The almost-one game notwithstanding, There is little to suggest Hurdle has held anyone accountable with respect to effort. 



John Jaso comes to mind....


Okay, I guess I should read all the way to the end of the post.



Somehow the lack of discipline doesn't seem like that much of a thing to me. Not like Tomlin, who when he came in was the disciplinarian and now anything goes.



I'd say the wacky lineups are more of an issue, but then early in the season for the first time ever he struck rigorously to a lineup, and stayed with it even when the team went south in May.



Hard to put my finger on what the problem is, but yes, might be time for some new ideas.

28242D20376B312C282A312D3C7775052228450 wrote: Hurdle benched Marte for lack of hustle on August 20. Final score, Braves 1, Pirates 0.


Yeah, and as I mentioned Marte came to the plate late in the game. 



The almost-one game notwithstanding, There is little to suggest Hurdle has held anyone accountable with respect to effort. 



John Jaso comes to mind....


Okay, I guess I should read all the way to the end of the post.



Somehow the lack of discipline doesn't seem like that much of a thing to me. Not like Tomlin, who when he came in was the disciplinarian and now anything goes.



I'd say the wacky lineups are more of an issue, but then early in the season for the first time ever he struck rigorously to a lineup, and stayed with it even when the team went south in May.



Hard to put my finger on what the problem is, but yes, might be time for some new ideas.


I wonder if Hurdle would have sat Marte if the fans hadn't booed and the media hadn't been on Marte. Hurdle usually lets anything go on the field and publicly defends the players. In any event, the Pirates will never have a squad with superior talent to the opposition so they need a manager who gets the most out of his team. Hurdle is not that guy. Getting the most out of the team does not mean resting key players in key games because--regardless of the circumstances--it's a "scheduled day off." So if they lose, so what? It doesn't mean emptying the bench on Sundays. So if they lose, so what? It doesn't mean leaving slumping players in key batting order spots for months before finally moving them down to enhance the team's chances of scoring runs. So if they lose, so what? I'm sure Hurdle would rather win than lose. But ultimately, it just doesn't seem all that important to him. As he says, they'll just shower it off and come back the next day. On the other hand, NH seems to like it that way. He's not in the trenches. He sits in his office and studies his analytics and thinks he can make the Pirates win because he's smarter than everyone else. He doesn't want a manager to get in the way and oppose his ideas. So they got 4 year extensions together. I think we're stuck with those two. But they need a manager who puts winning ahead of everything else and will butt heads with the GM when necessary. But the combination of a roster limited by financial constraints and a manager who doesn't make winning his #1 priority does not bode well.

626E676A7D217B6662607B67763D3F4F68620F0 wrote: Hurdle benched Marte for lack of hustle on August 20. Final score, Braves 1, Pirates 0.


Yeah, and as I mentioned Marte came to the plate late in the game. 



The almost-one game notwithstanding, There is little to suggest Hurdle has held anyone accountable with respect to effort. 



John Jaso comes to mind....


Okay, I guess I should read all the way to the end of the post.



Somehow the lack of discipline doesn't seem like that much of a thing to me. Not like Tomlin, who when he came in was the disciplinarian and now anything goes.



I'd say the wacky lineups are more of an issue, but then early in the season for the first time ever he struck rigorously to a lineup, and stayed with it even when the team went south in May.



Hard to put my finger on what the problem is, but yes, might be time for some new ideas.




I like Mike Tomlin a lot, but he's letting this team get away with stuff that's killing the Steelers. But that's another story.



I think a team like the Pirates must do all the little stuff really well. Playing hard and smart baseball is just one part of that requirement. And if a "bad" attitude (however it is projected) enters the clubhouse the problem suddenly becomes greater still. Freese especially, but maybe Cole and Cutch, made a point about this very problem (the attitude).



Bad Defense

Bad baserunning

Bad at bats



Then add on bad management

Bad decisions by FO....

Sheezz...that's a lot of bad stuff.



A team like the Pirates has to be better at the "little things". It just says a lot to me that a team like the Cubs expects a certain effort, accountability, and the Pirates have almost always blown it off.

143934252233246467560 wrote: Hurdle benched Marte for lack of hustle on August 20. Final score, Braves 1, Pirates 0.


Yeah, and as I mentioned Marte came to the plate late in the game. 



The almost-one game notwithstanding, There is little to suggest Hurdle has held anyone accountable with respect to effort. 



John Jaso comes to mind....


Okay, I guess I should read all the way to the end of the post.



Somehow the lack of discipline doesn't seem like that much of a thing to me. Not like Tomlin, who when he came in was the disciplinarian and now anything goes.



I'd say the wacky lineups are more of an issue, but then early in the season for the first time ever he struck rigorously to a lineup, and stayed with it even when the team went south in May.



Hard to put my finger on what the problem is, but yes, might be time for some new ideas.


I wonder if Hurdle would have sat Marte if the fans hadn't booed and the media hadn't been on Marte. Hurdle usually lets anything go on the field and publicly defends the players. In any event, the Pirates will never have a squad with superior talent to the opposition so they need a manager who gets the most out of his team. Hurdle is not that guy. Getting the most out of the team does not mean resting key players in key games because--regardless of the circumstances--it's a "scheduled day off." So if they lose, so what? It doesn't mean emptying the bench on Sundays. So if they lose, so what? It doesn't mean leaving slumping players in key batting order spots for months before finally moving them down to enhance the team's chances of scoring runs. So if they lose, so what? I'm sure Hurdle would rather win than lose. But ultimately, it just doesn't seem all that important to him. As he says, they'll just shower it off and come back the next day. On the other hand, NH seems to like it that way. He's not in the trenches. He sits in his office and studies his analytics and thinks he can make the Pirates win because he's smarter than everyone else. He doesn't want a manager to get in the way and oppose his ideas. So they got 4 year extensions together. I think we're stuck with those two. But they need a manager who puts winning ahead of everything else and will butt heads with the GM when necessary. But the combination of a roster limited by financial constraints and a manager who doesn't make winning his #1 priority does not bode well.






this sums up why Neal H. and Hurdle need to go. The Bucs aren't going to win by consistently having the best squad. There fore they need to be better than other teams in other areas. Having a top front office, manager and coaches has to be part of that.