Okay, time to vent. I realize it's still early, but I'm feeling like it's time to settle in for another offseason in which other teams try to get better and the Pirates try to build their roster without spending money.
* I'm happy with the Kang signing and I'm okay with the plan for a Kang/Moran platoon at 3b. It's actually not great but we have lots of bigger problems to worry about.
* I'm okay with the Chisenhall signing ... but as a 4th OF and a utility player. He's a good pickup for that role.
* I'm not happy if the plan to replace Polanco is a Chisenhall/Reyes platoon. I like both guys, but not as a starting RF trying to replace our ONLY true power source.
* I'm absolutely not happy if the plan at SS is to go with either Newman and/or Gonzalez. This is not a solution. PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY and sign a major league SS. Honestly I would be fine with Hechavarria. If the SS is not going to hit, we should at least pay for elite, Gold Glove caliber defense. Newman/Gonzalez is not a good idea.
* We need more pitching We need LEFT-HANDED pitching. Why in the world can't we SPEND SOME MONEY on someone like JA Happ. We need more pitching depth. I hate it every offseason when the Pirates say "we like our rotation and the depth behind it." Look, we know some guys are going to underachieve and have poor seasons, and some guys are going to get injured. WE NEED MORE QUALITY PITCHING.
If this current roster is essentially going to be our roster on opening day, plus a bullpen tweak or two, then we are in big, big, trouble. I can't believe (actually I can believe) that the Pirates are willing to go into a new season with these kind of holes in RF and SS, with virtually no power, and with little pitching depth (and again no lefties).
PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY. PLEASE.
Time to Vent
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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BucsFaninGA
Time to Vent
Carolina Bucco, I second the motion! It is a disgrace the way our club works to do everything on the player movement, improvement front. Sure I understand about being frugal. But if we sit on our hands and go with Chisenhall as our only OF, Newman and Gonzalez as our SS and add nothing else, we are not going to be in competition. Everyone but our beloved Bucs are working to improve their overall team. Sure we have decent to better than ever pitching....But why just settle for being okay! Our infield defense was terrible last year. We lack power. We lack a bench. We lack lefthanded pitching. Dang, I would think that Nutting would want to win something! Last off season's happenings should have etched the disappointment in his brain that the fanbase is unhappy. Which will result in lower attendance. Hoping that Neal Huntington is able to add more pieces and make our puzzle complete. Beat'em Bucs 
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OrlandoMerced
Time to Vent
I'm also frustrated with the SS position. I don't think Newman should be anywhere near the opening day roster. He was one of the worst hitters in all of baseball last year in terms of accruing negative WAR. He needs to be in the minors and proving it there.
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Bobster21
Time to Vent
Looks like they're assembling a 78-82 win team with an outside chance of overachieving. So everything's going according to plan. 
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Time to Vent
Actually it’s time to make an impact signing.
NH did something none of us expected when he traded prospects for Archer. Although I think we may have given up too much in the long run; the trade did solidify our rotation for the next 3 years.
Our payroll is currently under 80 million. The MLB average is around 150 million. This is the year to negotiate a new TV deal.
If we are going to compete the next 3 years and get a good TV contract; then we need an impact face of the Franchise signing.
I know it sounds crazy for the Pirates. But it makes sense to try and sign Harper. Give him the 35 or 40 million a year contract and trade him in 4 years like the Marlins did with Stanton.
This gives the Bucs the LH power bat they need. When Polanco returns you could move Harper to 1B and decide what todo with Bell. The Bucs can certainly afford a 120 million dollar payroll.
The Pirates would have a very marketable team that would garner national exposure. The only problem I see with this plan is getting Harper to sign here. He will have many options to sign with teams the can offer better advertising opportunities.
However the main point here is to go get elite talent now and not waste the pitching staff that under control and enhance the ability to maximize the new TV deal
NH did something none of us expected when he traded prospects for Archer. Although I think we may have given up too much in the long run; the trade did solidify our rotation for the next 3 years.
Our payroll is currently under 80 million. The MLB average is around 150 million. This is the year to negotiate a new TV deal.
If we are going to compete the next 3 years and get a good TV contract; then we need an impact face of the Franchise signing.
I know it sounds crazy for the Pirates. But it makes sense to try and sign Harper. Give him the 35 or 40 million a year contract and trade him in 4 years like the Marlins did with Stanton.
This gives the Bucs the LH power bat they need. When Polanco returns you could move Harper to 1B and decide what todo with Bell. The Bucs can certainly afford a 120 million dollar payroll.
The Pirates would have a very marketable team that would garner national exposure. The only problem I see with this plan is getting Harper to sign here. He will have many options to sign with teams the can offer better advertising opportunities.
However the main point here is to go get elite talent now and not waste the pitching staff that under control and enhance the ability to maximize the new TV deal
Time to Vent
Did anyone not see this coming? Attendance down in 2018 = Payroll down in 2019. It's pretty clear Bob Nutting is a reactive owner who is in love with his revenue "status quo".
We all witnessed the ownership/management response after the 2015 season, when there was a great opportunity to add to an already very good team, and go for a championship. Nadda. Not replacing the players who left as a free agent or retired (Happ & Burnett), and dumping Morton and Walker for no viable return. Turned a 98 win team in 2015 into a 78 win team in 2016.
As Bobster has pointed out, NH has clearly stated the franchise's "78-82 win + luck" philosophy. The object is not to take action to win a championship, but to maintain an equilibrium within the prescribed win-range, keep payroll in the bottom 20% of MLB and keep revenue at about the major league median. The 2016 Pirates filled that prescription like they were CVS, except for the "luck" part.
Having said that, going into 2019 NH has improved the defense (and hopefully the offense) by signing Kang and Gonzalez. Gave us a professional-temp right fielder in Chisenhall, and has assembled a very promising pitching staff. Maybe 2019 the Pirates will get the "luck" part right.
We all witnessed the ownership/management response after the 2015 season, when there was a great opportunity to add to an already very good team, and go for a championship. Nadda. Not replacing the players who left as a free agent or retired (Happ & Burnett), and dumping Morton and Walker for no viable return. Turned a 98 win team in 2015 into a 78 win team in 2016.
As Bobster has pointed out, NH has clearly stated the franchise's "78-82 win + luck" philosophy. The object is not to take action to win a championship, but to maintain an equilibrium within the prescribed win-range, keep payroll in the bottom 20% of MLB and keep revenue at about the major league median. The 2016 Pirates filled that prescription like they were CVS, except for the "luck" part.
Having said that, going into 2019 NH has improved the defense (and hopefully the offense) by signing Kang and Gonzalez. Gave us a professional-temp right fielder in Chisenhall, and has assembled a very promising pitching staff. Maybe 2019 the Pirates will get the "luck" part right.
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Bobster21
Time to Vent
Very well said Quail. It's not as if NH isn't doing anything. But he'a making the kind of minor moves we have all come to expect and which wouldn't even be discussion worthy on an elite team. Nevertheless, they might slightly improve the wal-mart Pirates. The Archer deal was so out of the norm for them that we aren't likely to see another move of that nature for a long time.
Time to Vent
NH is doing the best he can with the budget he has. He doesn't control what Nutting allows him. In one sense, I guess I'd rather see a 78 win team than a 58 win team.
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DemDog
Time to Vent
6D4F5C414247404F6C5B4D4D412E0 wrote: Okay, time to vent. I realize it's still early, but I'm feeling like it's time to settle in for another offseason in which other teams try to get better and the Pirates try to build their roster without spending money.
* I'm happy with the Kang signing and I'm okay with the plan for a Kang/Moran platoon at 3b. It's actually not great but we have lots of bigger problems to worry about.
* I'm okay with the Chisenhall signing ... but as a 4th OF and a utility player. He's a good pickup for that role.
* I'm not happy if the plan to replace Polanco is a Chisenhall/Reyes platoon. I like both guys, but not as a starting RF trying to replace our ONLY true power source.
* I'm absolutely not happy if the plan at SS is to go with either Newman and/or Gonzalez. This is not a solution. PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY and sign a major league SS. Honestly I would be fine with Hechavarria. If the SS is not going to hit, we should at least pay for elite, Gold Glove caliber defense. Newman/Gonzalez is not a good idea.
* We need more pitching We need LEFT-HANDED pitching. Why in the world can't we SPEND SOME MONEY on someone like JA Happ. We need more pitching depth. I hate it every offseason when the Pirates say "we like our rotation and the depth behind it." Look, we know some guys are going to underachieve and have poor seasons, and some guys are going to get injured. WE NEED MORE QUALITY PITCHING.
If this current roster is essentially going to be our roster on opening day, plus a bullpen tweak or two, then we are in big, big, trouble. I can't believe (actually I can believe) that the Pirates are willing to go into a new season with these kind of holes in RF and SS, with virtually no power, and with little pitching depth (and again no lefties).
PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY. PLEASE.
I hear ya, Carolina Bucco. But it all boils down to the question you raise and which I have highlighted. It is NOT in Nutting's genes to spend money! Not just on players but the scouting of players both amateur and MLB guys and the development staff throughout the entire organization.
Until this club is sold or Nutting suddenly develops a gene mutation the Bucs will forever lag behind the larger market spending clubs.
* I'm happy with the Kang signing and I'm okay with the plan for a Kang/Moran platoon at 3b. It's actually not great but we have lots of bigger problems to worry about.
* I'm okay with the Chisenhall signing ... but as a 4th OF and a utility player. He's a good pickup for that role.
* I'm not happy if the plan to replace Polanco is a Chisenhall/Reyes platoon. I like both guys, but not as a starting RF trying to replace our ONLY true power source.
* I'm absolutely not happy if the plan at SS is to go with either Newman and/or Gonzalez. This is not a solution. PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY and sign a major league SS. Honestly I would be fine with Hechavarria. If the SS is not going to hit, we should at least pay for elite, Gold Glove caliber defense. Newman/Gonzalez is not a good idea.
* We need more pitching We need LEFT-HANDED pitching. Why in the world can't we SPEND SOME MONEY on someone like JA Happ. We need more pitching depth. I hate it every offseason when the Pirates say "we like our rotation and the depth behind it." Look, we know some guys are going to underachieve and have poor seasons, and some guys are going to get injured. WE NEED MORE QUALITY PITCHING.
If this current roster is essentially going to be our roster on opening day, plus a bullpen tweak or two, then we are in big, big, trouble. I can't believe (actually I can believe) that the Pirates are willing to go into a new season with these kind of holes in RF and SS, with virtually no power, and with little pitching depth (and again no lefties).
PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY. PLEASE.
I hear ya, Carolina Bucco. But it all boils down to the question you raise and which I have highlighted. It is NOT in Nutting's genes to spend money! Not just on players but the scouting of players both amateur and MLB guys and the development staff throughout the entire organization.
Until this club is sold or Nutting suddenly develops a gene mutation the Bucs will forever lag behind the larger market spending clubs.
-
DemDog
Time to Vent
694D595154380 wrote: Did anyone not see this coming? Attendance down in 2018 = Payroll down in 2019. It's pretty clear Bob Nutting is a reactive owner who is in love with his revenue "status quo".
We all witnessed the ownership/management response after the 2015 season, when there was a great opportunity to add to an already very good team, and go for a championship. Nadda. Not replacing the players who left as a free agent or retired (Happ & Burnett), and dumping Morton and Walker for no viable return. Turned a 98 win team in 2015 into a 78 win team in 2016.
As Bobster has pointed out, NH has clearly stated the franchise's "78-82 win + luck" philosophy. The object is not to take action to win a championship, but to maintain an equilibrium within the prescribed win-range, keep payroll in the bottom 20% of MLB and keep revenue at about the major league median. The 2016 Pirates filled that prescription like they were CVS, except for the "luck" part.
Having said that, going into 2019 NH has improved the defense (and hopefully the offense) by signing Kang and Gonzalez. Gave us a professional-temp right fielder in Chisenhall, and has assembled a very promising pitching staff. Maybe 2019 the Pirates will get the "luck" part right.
Should I call you a NH apologist? No I should not. You are telling things just the way they are. NH does the best he can with the amount of money he is given. Like I said above, it is not in Nutting's genes to spend more money than he has to and ensure a profit.
We all witnessed the ownership/management response after the 2015 season, when there was a great opportunity to add to an already very good team, and go for a championship. Nadda. Not replacing the players who left as a free agent or retired (Happ & Burnett), and dumping Morton and Walker for no viable return. Turned a 98 win team in 2015 into a 78 win team in 2016.
As Bobster has pointed out, NH has clearly stated the franchise's "78-82 win + luck" philosophy. The object is not to take action to win a championship, but to maintain an equilibrium within the prescribed win-range, keep payroll in the bottom 20% of MLB and keep revenue at about the major league median. The 2016 Pirates filled that prescription like they were CVS, except for the "luck" part.
Having said that, going into 2019 NH has improved the defense (and hopefully the offense) by signing Kang and Gonzalez. Gave us a professional-temp right fielder in Chisenhall, and has assembled a very promising pitching staff. Maybe 2019 the Pirates will get the "luck" part right.
Should I call you a NH apologist? No I should not. You are telling things just the way they are. NH does the best he can with the amount of money he is given. Like I said above, it is not in Nutting's genes to spend more money than he has to and ensure a profit.