OnlyBucs

MLB Trade Rumors is saying that Gonzalez will sign a minor league contract with the Yankees. They are reporting it has a base of 3 million dollars with incentives for starts. Could not the Pirates afford this contract? It would be sure nice to have a lefty in the rotation.

You just don't understand financial flexibility.

0D010805124E14090D0F140819525020070D600 wrote: You just don't understand financial flexibility.


yes, and internal value. He may be worth $3 million to Yankees but who knows what the Pirates think he is worth.



(he may also have been willing to sign with the Pirates for 8 or 9 million or not willing to sign with them for 20 million. depending on whether he thinks money or World Series contender is most important)

It appears his deal is a minor league one. If he makes the team, he then gets something like 3MM. This has to be quite a come-down from what he expected. I suppose he passed better deals earlier that weren't up to what he expected, and now he's stuck with this. Makes you wonder, though.

This salary stuff is crazy. The Bucs paid Eric Bedard 4.5 million in 2012 and he wasn’t as good as Gio. Bedard won 7 games for them that season. If, and we will never know, if they passed on Gonzalez for 3 million bucks plus incentives this ownership group should decide whether to remain owners or take on additional investors in order that this fanbase can enjoy an extended playoff run. Actions speak louder than words!

No doubt they would have had to offer more than $3 million though. Let’s face reality...if the Pirates and Yankees each offer the same contract, guys aren't signing with the Pirates. That’s the just rewards of 20 straight years of losing and clearly not having a commitment to putting the best team on the field. I hate the Yankees. But there’s no doubt they put the best team on the field each year.



Regarding salaries, this is the natural consequence of advanced analytics. Every team now knows that with relatively few exceptions, they can get the same or nearly the same production from younger, cheaper, players.



The next CBA could be a disaster for the Bucs. I can definitely see something happening like doing away with the arbitration process and moving to some type of restricted free agency. Can any of us honestly see the Bucs matching a contract offer for an elite player? I can’t. Think 2012 Andrew McCutchen...the Red Sox offer him 10 years, $120 million. No way the Bucs match that. No way.



On the plus side, maybe a new CBA will force Nutting to sell the team.

171F1C2B3D183F305E0 wrote: No doubt they would have had to offer more than $3 million though. Let’s face reality...if the Pirates and Yankees each offer the same contract, guys aren't signing with the Pirates. That’s the just rewards of 20 straight years of losing and clearly not having a commitment to putting the best team on the field. I hate the Yankees. But there’s no doubt they put the best team on the field each year.



Regarding salaries, this is the natural consequence of advanced analytics. Every team now knows that with relatively few exceptions, they can get the same or nearly the same production from younger, cheaper, players.



The next CBA could be a disaster for the Bucs. I can definitely see something happening like doing away with the arbitration process and moving to some type of restricted free agency. Can any of us honestly see the Bucs matching a contract offer for an elite player? I can’t. Think 2012 Andrew McCutchen...the Red Sox offer him 10 years, $120 million. No way the Bucs match that. No way.



On the plus side, maybe a new CBA will force Nutting to sell the team.


There is a lot of good stuff here, IA.



On paper, this Gonzalez signing is really embarrassing for the Pirates. I hope that Gonzalez just wasn't willing to sign with the Pirates for any amount. It would have easily been worth it to pay him twice that much for two years with a MLB contract. This isn't just on the Pirates. How many other teams could have used a solid SP for $3 million dollars. That's pennies. How did he wind up with the Yankees on a minor league deal. This is really strange.



The line that I bolded has been true for a number of teams for awhile. I actually think the Pirates were one of the first teams to operate this way. Finances forced them to do it, but they still backed it with analytics. This is a big shift in baseball when the Yankees are doing it too, with their resources.



Your last paragraph is most indicting and it has me concerned for the future of baseball. The players are really angry. There will be a change in entry level contracts and arbitration. Any change will really punish the Pirates and many other teams. Baseball will be hurt badly if there isn't a subsequent revenue sharing model introduced similar to other sports.

I think they clearly view Kingham as a long term back end of the rotation guy, the disinterest in a quality add like Gonzalez reflects that. Kingham pitched well yesterday, so thus far he has three good outings and two dreadful outings. That's not the profile I would want for a fifth starter, you want a guy that is going to keep you in games, not ones that will one here and there, but single highhandedly lose a game once or twice a month.



The Pirates value control years more than other franchises it seems. That explains the Gerrit Cole return, and it explains the price they paid for Archer. They have a very transparent model, and giving Kingham an extended trial to become a competent major leaguer is part of that model.

I don't think the difference between signing with the Yankees or Pirates is anything compared to opportunity. If he signs one year with the Pirates, if he's good and the Pirates are bad he'll be dealt to a contender, anyway. Mostly, though, he has to pitch to set up a 2020 contract, and that's more certain as the Pirates #5 than on a minor league contract with anyone.

Okay, fine, have it your way the Pirates didn't sign him because Nuttingz r cheep. 



But how about all of the other teams?  I am sure the Pirates are not the only team that needs a starting pitcher.  Nobody signed him to a major league deal and every team had their reasons but only the Pirates were cheap. 



I mean I would have preferred having him as a #5 given all that we know. As for what we don't know?