OnlyBucs

It is only two weeks into the season and Austin Meadows is hitting over .300 with 3 homers and 10 rbi. So far Marte as done barely nothing this season, but we hear that the Bucs Brass thinks he could be the best player on the field each night. Notwithstanding the injury, but Polanco has not yet lived up to the hype that we heard prior to joining the Bucs. Who knows possibly Meadows will be the best of the 3 players, but I guess you cannot look back once a trade is completed.

perhaps a cautionary tale to fans who complain that their team is "afraid to give up prospects"

7C4E42425664474E4346494E2F0 wrote: perhaps a cautionary tale to fans who complain that their team is "afraid to give up prospects"
I agree that at times a team has to trade prospects to acquire a player or players to compete. I think years ago the Tigers sent John Smoltz to the Braves for a veteran pitcher who I cannot remember his name. That was a great return to the Braves. I hope several years from now the Archer, Meadows, Glasnow Trade is remembered as a trade that helped both teams, and not one as the Smoltz Trade. I just recalled the pitcher who was traded to the Tigers in the Smoltz Trade . It was Doyle Alexander.

I like Archer and I've said so before. I'm not sure it was the right move for the Pirates to make at that point in time as opposed to to other seasons when maybe they should have.

It was a strange trade. On the surface, they were trading 3 top prospects for a highly regarded pitcher. That part seems reasonable. Glasnow had been a bust so the Bucs had to sweeten the pot with significantly more. Glasnow is working out just fine for TB but at the time, they were getting a failed prospect. So not only did they get Meadows but also Baz. I don't have a problem with the players involved in the trade.



Except for this: Other than Kela the Pirates made no other moves to improve the team they were adding Archer to. Trading 3 prospects for a veteran pitcher is a "the future is now" type of deal. But then they promptly sat on their hands throughout the off season and settled for Gonzalez as their new SS. Even with Archer, they don't appear to be legit competitors. So if Archer wasn't part of a larger plan to substantially upgrade the team, why trade the prospects? I hope this deal wasn't made primarily to debunk the theory that NH won't trade his prospects. Because if it wasn't part of a bigger plan, why bother? It's kind of like trying to impress your neighbors by adding a nice garage to your house but then not buying a car.

042924353223347477460 wrote: It was a strange trade. On the surface, they were trading 3 top prospects for a highly regarded pitcher. That part seems reasonable. Glasnow had been a bust so the Bucs had to sweeten the pot with significantly more. Glasnow is working out just fine for TB but at the time, they were getting a failed prospect. So not only did they get Meadows but also Baz. I don't have a problem with the players involved in the trade.



Except for this: Other than Kela the Pirates made no other moves to improve the team they were adding Archer to. Trading 3 prospects for a veteran pitcher is a "the future is now" type of deal. But then they promptly sat on their hands throughout the off season and settled for Gonzalez as their new SS. Even with Archer, they don't appear to be legit competitors. So if Archer wasn't part of a larger plan to substantially upgrade the team, why trade the prospects? I hope this deal wasn't made primarily to debunk the theory that NH won't trade his prospects. Because if it wasn't part of a bigger plan, why bother? It's kind of like trying to impress your neighbors by adding a nice garage to your house but then not buying a car.


one reason may be that the Bucs decided that Meadows and Glasnow were never going to be big contributors so deal them when other teams haven't figured that out yet.



If they become stars and the Pirates didn't expect it, it is egg on the faces of the Bucs talent evaluators.

0A272A3B3C2D3A7A79480 wrote: It was a strange trade. On the surface, they were trading 3 top prospects for a highly regarded pitcher. That part seems reasonable. Glasnow had been a bust so the Bucs had to sweeten the pot with significantly more. Glasnow is working out just fine for TB but at the time, they were getting a failed prospect. So not only did they get Meadows but also Baz. I don't have a problem with the players involved in the trade.



Except for this: Other than Kela the Pirates made no other moves to improve the team they were adding Archer to. Trading 3 prospects for a veteran pitcher is a "the future is now" type of deal. But then they promptly sat on their hands throughout the off season and settled for Gonzalez as their new SS. Even with Archer, they don't appear to be legit competitors. So if Archer wasn't part of a larger plan to substantially upgrade the team, why trade the prospects? I hope this deal wasn't made primarily to debunk the theory that NH won't trade his prospects. Because if it wasn't part of a bigger plan, why bother? It's kind of like trying to impress your neighbors by adding a nice garage to your house but then not buying a car.


See, I don't think it's a trade you make and then build on with other pieces to make a team--i think it's a deal that you make when you're already good to try to put yourself over the top (ie like we should have done a few years ago). Though I guess it would work the way you're saying too as we have him a few years.



It was nice that we were "in it" last year but no amount of chris archers were going to have that team be one of the top contenders. 

60525E5E4A785B525F5A5552330 wrote: It was a strange trade. On the surface, they were trading 3 top prospects for a highly regarded pitcher. That part seems reasonable. Glasnow had been a bust so the Bucs had to sweeten the pot with significantly more. Glasnow is working out just fine for TB but at the time, they were getting a failed prospect. So not only did they get Meadows but also Baz. I don't have a problem with the players involved in the trade.



Except for this: Other than Kela the Pirates made no other moves to improve the team they were adding Archer to. Trading 3 prospects for a veteran pitcher is a "the future is now" type of deal. But then they promptly sat on their hands throughout the off season and settled for Gonzalez as their new SS. Even with Archer, they don't appear to be legit competitors. So if Archer wasn't part of a larger plan to substantially upgrade the team, why trade the prospects? I hope this deal wasn't made primarily to debunk the theory that NH won't trade his prospects. Because if it wasn't part of a bigger plan, why bother? It's kind of like trying to impress your neighbors by adding a nice garage to your house but then not buying a car.


See, I don't think it's a trade you make and then build on with other pieces to make a team--i think it's a deal that you make when you're already good to try to put yourself over the top (ie like we should have done a few years ago).



It was nice that we were "in it" last year but no amount of chris archers were going to have that team be one of the top contenders. 




do you think NH's explanation that the deal was for this year makes sense? It seems like making those deals and then saying we are only going to tinker afterwards negates that as a reason for making the deal.



When I want to be optimistic I think management knows what it is doing and has a plan to win. Yet reality shows up quickly and makes me think the plan is really only to catch lightening in a bottle (which isn't a plan).

240203140212610 wrote: It was a strange trade. On the surface, they were trading 3 top prospects for a highly regarded pitcher. That part seems reasonable. Glasnow had been a bust so the Bucs had to sweeten the pot with significantly more. Glasnow is working out just fine for TB but at the time, they were getting a failed prospect. So not only did they get Meadows but also Baz. I don't have a problem with the players involved in the trade.



Except for this: Other than Kela the Pirates made no other moves to improve the team they were adding Archer to. Trading 3 prospects for a veteran pitcher is a "the future is now" type of deal. But then they promptly sat on their hands throughout the off season and settled for Gonzalez as their new SS. Even with Archer, they don't appear to be legit competitors. So if Archer wasn't part of a larger plan to substantially upgrade the team, why trade the prospects? I hope this deal wasn't made primarily to debunk the theory that NH won't trade his prospects. Because if it wasn't part of a bigger plan, why bother? It's kind of like trying to impress your neighbors by adding a nice garage to your house but then not buying a car.


See, I don't think it's a trade you make and then build on with other pieces to make a team--i think it's a deal that you make when you're already good to try to put yourself over the top (ie like we should have done a few years ago).



It was nice that we were "in it" last year but no amount of chris archers were going to have that team be one of the top contenders. 




do you think NH's explanation that the deal was for this year makes sense?  It seems like making those deals and then saying we are only going to tinker afterwards negates that as a reason for making the deal.



When I want to be optimistic I think management knows what it is doing and has a plan to win.  Yet reality shows up quickly and makes me think the plan is really only to catch lightening in a bottle (which isn't a plan).   






Yeah I edited my post a tad but I still don't think the team's good enough without more done.

The main value in acquiring Archer was that he had a past track record of success, although he had struggled a bit in the seasons immediately before the trade, he was cost controlled, and he was still relatively young.



Glasnow clearly had an upside, having been a top 20 prospect in the past, but he had yet to experience any real success at the MLB level. He did, however, have years of control and another year plus at the major league minimum (important to the very cost conscious Rays) remaining for the Rays to try and fix him.



Meadows seemed like the key piece to the deal to me, particularly because of his ability to play CF. He did not have stellar stats in the minors, and he had frequently been injured, but he appeared to have all of the makings of a major league outfielder. And, like Glasnow, he had years of cost control and was still essentially earning the major league minimum.



I don't know anything about Baz except that he was a #1 draft pick for the Bucs. If the Bucs thought he had a bright future, adding him to the deal seemed like a bit of an overpay to me. However, if after seeing him pitch in the system for 1.5 years the Bucs concluded that his ceiling was not as bright as once hoped, then adding him likely had a lower risk of long-term loss to the system.



Like Bobster, my main concern is not what they did (trading 3 players for Archer), but what they didn't do. Perhaps I am underselling Jordan Lyles, but adding him as the 5th starter and as a replacement for Nova does not strike me as a team that is trying to win the Series. Settling for Gonzalez at SS indicates the same, and not looking for a replacement for Santana simply adds to the puzzlement of this past off-season. If winning is the goal, the Bucs have a strange way of demonstrating that it is what matters.



For a brief moment, the Archer and Kela trades (the fact that they occurred at the same time similarly was encouraging) seemed to indicate that 2019 could be different, but alas, ownership again cut the payroll, forced the GM to trade salary (Nova), allowed Mercer and Harrison to walk (although I believe both were good decisions) without any real replacement for Mercer, and trying to trade Cervelli to drop the payroll even further.



The Bucs have 2 players making $10 mil or more this year, one of whom is Cervelli who will be gone next year, and the other is Marte who is earning exactly $10 mil. In 2020, Marte will be the only player making more than $10 mil. This is not the way that winning teams are structured.



I would like to say the above is simply more of the same, but in looking at where this team and franchise are at present, it is really a major step backward. Payroll dropped. Little new talent was obtained this off-season. There are fewer better prospects available in the system and lesser likelihood to replace lost prospects through the draft and international pool. No free agents are looking at the Pirates. Dumpster diving is in full swing. About the only things missing are losing a bevy of players in the Rule 5 draft through roster mismanagement and most sadly, a real effort being made to try to win the Division, the League Championship and the Series.



I have always followed the Pirates, but Nutting (even more than McClatchy) causes me to really question my loyalty to the franchise.