OnlyBucs

I am curious if the FO will keep Archer regardless of his inconsistencies moving forward?



Should they cut bait and use that money to get a better pitcher in the upcoming offseason?

I think it is too early to do anything other than be patient.

Well, it's not like they have a pipeline full of AAA pitchers ready to replace him. Or an owner willing to pay market value for an established replacement. And the success of Meadows and Glasnow is a huge embarrassment and all but assures that they will stick with Archer in the desperate hope that somehow, some way, some day he will pay dividends on the trade and make NH look less incompetent.

Yeah, let him go and replace him with what?

I don’t know who you replace him with but at some point if Archer continues to not get out of the 4th or 5th inning every time he pitches and he gives up 4-5 runs or more a start then they need to do something with him besides throwing him out there every 5th day. Whether that’s skip a start or two or move him to the bullpen for awhile I’m not sure. But I’m getting to the point now where I have seen enough of Archer if he continues to pitch like he is right now.

6C4B5A5E5B46794D5A5B5B463F0 wrote: I don’t know who you replace him with but at some point if Archer continues to not get out of the 4th or 5th inning every time he pitches and he gives up 4-5 runs or more a start then they need to do something with him besides throwing him out there every 5th day. Whether that’s skip a start or two or move him to the bullpen for awhile I’m not sure. But I’m getting to the point now where I have seen enough of Archer if he continues to pitch like he is right now.
Right now it's

--Archer

--Musgrove (not doing that great this year)

--Jordan Lyles (maybe hurt, if not will probably come back to Earth)

--???

--?????



When I say "who do you replace him with" I mean that very literally.  You can't just wave that question away.

There must be a team somewhere with a #4 (if not a #3) starter that would trade such a pitcher for Marte. Marte has attributes that could really help a team if he was motivated, which he clearly isn't on the Pirates (hey, isn't motivation Hurdle's specialty?). He's also under control 2 more years with reasonable (for non-Nutting owners) team options (11.5 mil & 12.5 mil). Between Reynolds, Cabrera, Polanco, Dickerson (when healthy) and Chisenhall (when healthy) the need for a starting pitcher outweighs the needs for a lazy, unfocused, unmotivated Marte.

5C717C6D6A7B6C2C2F1E0 wrote: There must be a team somewhere with a #4 (if not a #3) starter that would trade such a pitcher for Marte. Marte has attributes that could really help a team if he was motivated, which he clearly isn't on the Pirates (hey, isn't motivation Hurdle's specialty?). He's also under control 2 more years with reasonable (for non-Nutting owners) team options (11.5 mil & 12.5 mil). Between Reynolds, Cabrera, Polanco, Dickerson (when healthy) and Chisenhall (when healthy) the need for a starting pitcher outweighs the needs for a lazy, unfocused, unmotivated Marte. 
Ya I’m with you Bobster I think it’s time to move Marte once and for all. I’m tired of his laziness and his mental lapses both on the field and at the plate. I definitely would move him as soon as possible I think it’s definitely time.

220F02131405125251600 wrote: There must be a team somewhere with a #4 (if not a #3) starter that would trade such a pitcher for Marte. Marte has attributes that could really help a team if he was motivated, which he clearly isn't on the Pirates (hey, isn't motivation Hurdle's specialty?). He's also under control 2 more years with reasonable (for non-Nutting owners) team options (11.5 mil & 12.5 mil). Between Reynolds, Cabrera, Polanco, Dickerson (when healthy) and Chisenhall (when healthy) the need for a starting pitcher outweighs the needs for a lazy, unfocused, unmotivated Marte. 


I'd consider that, but not towards the ends of removing one of the current starters. I think we need to ride Archer out for a little while longer.

At present, Archer has very limited value, both to the Pirates and to any other team. As such, I believe the Bucs need to continue to run him out there and pray that he performs better. And as most recognize, there are no other current options for the Pirates.



With respect to Marte, I have frequently viewed him as the one player that the team needed to keep because of his defense, speed, power, and overall ability. Unfortunately, none of his talents are doing a whole heck of a lot for the Bucs.



Most of the starting pitchers who may be available are folks who are in the last year of a contract (e.g. Bumgartner) or grossly overpaid for the production they offer (e.g. Leake). Some of the better pitchers who are out there who may be available, such as Stroman in Toronto, likely would require a better trade package than Marte. If the Bucs were to move Marte, they need to define their goal:

1) Add a pitcher to better try and compete this year.

2) Add a pitcher who will help them in 2020 when both Tallion and Wililams should be back, and Keller may be more ready.

3) Add a prospect who may add 6 years of service time at some point.



Marte has been a real disappointment. He has never grown out of his faults, and in some cases (nonchalant approach to the game), they appear to be getting worse.