I didn't watch the first 5 or so innings today. We are trying to prep our house to sell, so I was busy doing that. Through my 10 year old, I heard a description of the situation with Maddon getting ejected. I also read a few MLB.com articles.
Are the Pirates dirty? This board (myself included) is quick to defend.
You could argue that Lyles didn't even hit anyone. Maybe Maddon was trying to wake up his underachieving team that had been throttled in this series. Holmes hitting Bote in the head was clearly not on purpose.
However, this has been an issue numerous times with multiple other teams and over multiple years. We've had issues with the D-Backs. Multiple issues with the Reds. Multiple issues with the Brewers. There were issues with the Braves earlier this year. Now the Cubs. The common denominator is the Pirates.
So, are we a dirty team that hits people?
Is this a reputation with other teams?
People know the Pirates pitch inside. Do other teams not pitch inside? It seems like teams love to work a few of our guys (particularly Marte) inside.
If we take off the black and gold sunglasses, is there a problem?
Disclosure: I have been a defender and I don't think today was an issue, but it got me thinking about the larger picture that made Maddon lose his mind ever something seemingly insignificant.
Are the Pirates dirty?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Are the Pirates dirty?
54496D6F61040 wrote: I didn't watch the first 5 or so innings today. We are trying to prep our house to sell, so I was busy doing that. Through my 10 year old, I heard a description of the situation with Maddon getting ejected. I also read a few MLB.com articles.
Are the Pirates dirty? This board (myself included) is quick to defend.
You could argue that Lyles didn't even hit anyone. Maybe Maddon was trying to wake up his underachieving team that had been throttled in this series. Holmes hitting Bote in the head was clearly not on purpose.
However, this has been an issue numerous times with multiple other teams and over multiple years. We've had issues with the D-Backs. Multiple issues with the Reds. Multiple issues with the Brewers. There were issues with the Braves earlier this year. Now the Cubs. The common denominator is the Pirates.
So, are we a dirty team that hits people?
Is this a reputation with other teams?
People know the Pirates pitch inside. Do other teams not pitch inside? It seems like teams love to work a few of our guys (particularly Marte) inside.
If we take off the black and gold sunglasses, is there a problem?
Disclosure: I have been a defender and I don't think today was an issue, but it got me thinking about the larger picture that made Maddon lose his mind ever something seemingly insignificant.
at first today I thought Maddon was arguing that the batter had been hit. Then was surprised he was mad at Hurdle. Certainly other teams pitch inside.
This year the Bucs have been hit 29 times and hit batters 38
last year hit 59 and hit 69
2017 hit 88 and hit 58
2016 hit 81 and hit 68
2015 hit 89 and hit 75
HBP may not be the best evidence for pitching inside but on the face of it doesn't indicate the Bucs are pitching inside more than other teams. One thing the ESPN broadcasters did say was that the Bucs scouting report says to go after the Cubs high and inside. Holmes pitch that hit Bode was the only one I saw today that close to high and tight. None of the others even knocked a batter down.
Are the Pirates dirty? This board (myself included) is quick to defend.
You could argue that Lyles didn't even hit anyone. Maybe Maddon was trying to wake up his underachieving team that had been throttled in this series. Holmes hitting Bote in the head was clearly not on purpose.
However, this has been an issue numerous times with multiple other teams and over multiple years. We've had issues with the D-Backs. Multiple issues with the Reds. Multiple issues with the Brewers. There were issues with the Braves earlier this year. Now the Cubs. The common denominator is the Pirates.
So, are we a dirty team that hits people?
Is this a reputation with other teams?
People know the Pirates pitch inside. Do other teams not pitch inside? It seems like teams love to work a few of our guys (particularly Marte) inside.
If we take off the black and gold sunglasses, is there a problem?
Disclosure: I have been a defender and I don't think today was an issue, but it got me thinking about the larger picture that made Maddon lose his mind ever something seemingly insignificant.
at first today I thought Maddon was arguing that the batter had been hit. Then was surprised he was mad at Hurdle. Certainly other teams pitch inside.
This year the Bucs have been hit 29 times and hit batters 38
last year hit 59 and hit 69
2017 hit 88 and hit 58
2016 hit 81 and hit 68
2015 hit 89 and hit 75
HBP may not be the best evidence for pitching inside but on the face of it doesn't indicate the Bucs are pitching inside more than other teams. One thing the ESPN broadcasters did say was that the Bucs scouting report says to go after the Cubs high and inside. Holmes pitch that hit Bode was the only one I saw today that close to high and tight. None of the others even knocked a batter down.
Are the Pirates dirty?
I don’t think so.
The one you mentioned this year. Reds. Dietrich deserved it and their manager went apeshart. (Note Bell hitting three monster home runs in a night, just ran the bases. No showboating or showing up the other team is needed.
MAdden went apeshart when his guy was missed. I think he was trying to wake his team up and it worked.
Donaldson went apeshart when his collar was brushed.
I do think that we defend our own. I do think we will pitch inside.
But dirty? no more than anyone else.
The one you mentioned this year. Reds. Dietrich deserved it and their manager went apeshart. (Note Bell hitting three monster home runs in a night, just ran the bases. No showboating or showing up the other team is needed.
MAdden went apeshart when his guy was missed. I think he was trying to wake his team up and it worked.
Donaldson went apeshart when his collar was brushed.
I do think that we defend our own. I do think we will pitch inside.
But dirty? no more than anyone else.
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iwatch
Are the Pirates dirty?
If anyone remembers there was a time when Pirate pitchers avoided pitching inside. I seem to recall that changing around the time that Burnett and Martin arrived. I have no stats or data to support this as that would require effort and I will not put more effort into this team than Nutting will. I just think I remember that.
This is more about Maddon getting in the news for this so maybe someone will forget his screw up in this series.
This is more about Maddon getting in the news for this so maybe someone will forget his screw up in this series.
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Bobster21
Are the Pirates dirty?
584650455259310 wrote: If anyone remembers there was a time when Pirate pitchers avoided pitching inside. I seem to recall that changing around the time that Burnett and Martin arrived. I have no stats or data to support this as that would require effort and I will not put more effort into this team than Nutting will. I just think I remember that.
This is more about Maddon getting in the news for this so maybe someone will forget his screw up in this series.
Yes, there was a time not too long ago when Pirate pitchers were known for not pitching inside. They let batters own the plate and they paid for it. In recent years they changed that philosophy. I think the problem now is that their pitchers generally lack control. They've walked the 2nd most batters and thrown the 6th most wild pitches. I think it's this lack of control that has resulted in them hitting the 4th most batters. It's not dirty but its dangerous to throw inside when you lack the control that would enable you to go inside without hitting someone.
This is more about Maddon getting in the news for this so maybe someone will forget his screw up in this series.
Yes, there was a time not too long ago when Pirate pitchers were known for not pitching inside. They let batters own the plate and they paid for it. In recent years they changed that philosophy. I think the problem now is that their pitchers generally lack control. They've walked the 2nd most batters and thrown the 6th most wild pitches. I think it's this lack of control that has resulted in them hitting the 4th most batters. It's not dirty but its dangerous to throw inside when you lack the control that would enable you to go inside without hitting someone.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Are the Pirates dirty?
“(The Pirates) just need to be careful,” Maddon said. “I love their players. It’s a real good team. And they’re good guys… but if they keep pitching like that, a lot of these guys are not going to like their pitching staff.”
I know that I'm pretty anxious that our opponents like our pitching staff (said with dripping sarcasm).
Maddon was just trying to fire up his troops. They were 1-5 at that point on their road trip. It was ridiculous. No one knew what was going -- West the plate umpire, the Cubs, Lyles, or Hurdle. It was just a show. It was whiney Maddon dumb.
A good ring bout with Clint and Joe would be very enjoyable as I think I can predict that slaughter with certainty. I would also pay good money to see Gibson or Drysdale pitch to Rizzo who just would not crowd the plate like he does in what was a tougher era.
I know that I'm pretty anxious that our opponents like our pitching staff (said with dripping sarcasm).
Maddon was just trying to fire up his troops. They were 1-5 at that point on their road trip. It was ridiculous. No one knew what was going -- West the plate umpire, the Cubs, Lyles, or Hurdle. It was just a show. It was whiney Maddon dumb.
A good ring bout with Clint and Joe would be very enjoyable as I think I can predict that slaughter with certainty. I would also pay good money to see Gibson or Drysdale pitch to Rizzo who just would not crowd the plate like he does in what was a tougher era.
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DemDog
Are the Pirates dirty?
54756069516873607564010 wrote: “(The Pirates) just need to be careful,” Maddon said. “I love their players. It’s a real good team. And they’re good guys… but if they keep pitching like that, a lot of these guys are not going to like their pitching staff.”
I know that I'm pretty anxious that our opponents like our pitching staff (said with dripping sarcasm).
Maddon was just trying to fire up his troops. They were 1-5 at that point on their road trip. It was ridiculous. No one knew what was going -- West the plate umpire, the Cubs, Lyles, or Hurdle. It was just a show. It was whiney Maddon dumb.
A good ring bout with Clint and Joe would be very enjoyable as I think I can predict that slaughter with certainty. I would also pay good money to see Gibson or Drysdale pitch to Rizzo who just would not crowd the plate like he does in what was a tougher era.
You beat me to the thought. I was going to say the same thing. Especially Gibson who was my favorite non-Pirate pitcher. I would have loved for him to have played his career in the Burgh.
I know that I'm pretty anxious that our opponents like our pitching staff (said with dripping sarcasm).
Maddon was just trying to fire up his troops. They were 1-5 at that point on their road trip. It was ridiculous. No one knew what was going -- West the plate umpire, the Cubs, Lyles, or Hurdle. It was just a show. It was whiney Maddon dumb.
A good ring bout with Clint and Joe would be very enjoyable as I think I can predict that slaughter with certainty. I would also pay good money to see Gibson or Drysdale pitch to Rizzo who just would not crowd the plate like he does in what was a tougher era.
You beat me to the thought. I was going to say the same thing. Especially Gibson who was my favorite non-Pirate pitcher. I would have loved for him to have played his career in the Burgh.