OnlyBucs

1960:The Yankees out scored the Pirates by 35 runs in the three games the Pirates lost. 



2019: the Cubs outscored the Pirates by 47 runs in three loses. 



On the surface, it appears the 1960 team is a bit better.  But this 2019 team doesn’t have the opportunity to take it to the Cubbies for four straight wins.  Play four more and I’m thinking no one in America is laughing at these Buccos!



I’m thinking that most folks will say the the 1960 team. Maybe.  But this team might be closer than we think!

Perhaps if the 2019 Pirates were 86-54 on September 15 like in 1960 instead of 65-85 they might narrow the gap between these 2 nearly identical teams.

The 1960 team had the advantage of several pretty strong pitchers who were healthy for the year. That makes a huge difference.

6C6E747264010 wrote: The 1960 team had the advantage of several pretty strong pitchers who were healthy for the year. That makes a huge difference.
I know VaPirate's post was tongue in cheek. But you're right. Bob Friend (18 wins) was 4th in the NL in ERA with 3.00. Vern Law (20 wins, Cy Young) was 8th at 3.08. Mizell's ERA as a Pirate was 3.12, nearly as good as the Cy Young winner. He was 13-5 as a Buc. Harvey Haddix was a decent 4th starter who helped himself with the bat (.254) and glove (Gold Glove winner).



When I researched my book I found something very interesting. Since doubleheaders were routinely scheduled and more were added for rain make ups, the Pirates played 16 that year. And with a 4 man rotation, spot starters were often inserted to give an extra day of rest to the starters who would otherwise average 3 days of rest between starts. Haddix was the oldest starter at age 34 and needed additional rest between starts. Only 6 of his 28 starts were on 3 days rest. So if there was no off day in between, a spot starter was usually inserted to give him an extra day to rest. So a cadre of spot starters was essentially a 5th starter. For example the rotation got 37 starts from Friend, 35 from Law, 28 from Haddix and 27 from a combo of Mizell (23 after being obtained in late May) and Bennie Daniels (4 starts before going to the BP when Mizell arrived). Spot starters accounted for another 32 starts. The Bucs struggled in that dept with 5 pitchers accounting for those 32 starts with a combined record of 5-11 with a 5.60 ERA. Unfortunately, the 2019 Pirates had regular starters in the rotation (Archer, Williams, Lyles) all with ERAs between 5 and 6.

I always knew the 1960 team kept a third catcher named Bob Oldis, who got into 22 games and batted 20 times all season. I didn't know until recently that through May they carried Danny Kravitz as a fourth catcher. He was dealt June 1 for Hank Foiles, who had been the team's main catcher in 1957-58. Foiles was traded to the Indians on June 2.

54677B7A7971477A617D6661707C7B150 wrote: I always knew the 1960 team kept a third catcher named Bob Oldis, who got into 22 games and batted 20 times all season. I didn't know until recently that through May they carried Danny Kravitz as a fourth catcher. He was dealt June 1 for Hank Foiles, who had been the team's main catcher in 1957-58. Foiles was traded to the Indians on June 2.
They didn't want to release Kravitz because they thought they could get something for him. So they entered the season with 4 catchers. But they also were carrying just 4 OFers. By June 1 they wanted to add an OFer and they wanted a veteran catcher to go to their AAA team in Columbus to help the pitching prospects. I don't know why they didn't just send Kravitz to Columbus but they traded him for Foiles and informed Foiles he would be going to AAA. Foiles objected and told Joe Brown he refused to go to AAA. Brown told him that if he could arrange a trade acceptable to the Pirates Brown would trade him to another MLB club. Foiles contacted Cleveland, explained the situation and the Indians offered John Powers, a 30-year old former Pirate whose career was mostly in the minors. The Pirates agreed to accept Powers so that Foiles could stay in the majors with Cleveland. Powers went to Columbus and Joe Christopher was recalled to be the 5th OFer.



So Foiles was a Pirate for 1 day and on paper only. For the 1960 season Foiles went from the Pirates to KC in the winter of 1959, from KC to the Pirates on June 1, from the Pirates to Cleveland on June 2, from Cleveland to Detroit on July 26, and after the season from Detroit to Baltimore in November.

4E636E7F78697E3E3D0C0 wrote: Perhaps if the 2019 Pirates were 86-54 on September 15 like in 1960 instead of 65-85 they might narrow the gap between these 2 nearly identical teams. 


You Sabermetric guys have a stat for everything....

2324323A3423646811363C30383D7F323E3C510 wrote: Perhaps if the 2019 Pirates were 86-54 on September 15 like in 1960 instead of 65-85 they might narrow the gap between these 2 nearly identical teams. 


You Sabermetric guys have a stat for everything....