Players taking shots at Hurdle...

SteadyFreddy · Post by **SteadyFreddy** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:27 pm

Listening to guys like Archer and Musgrove in particular the other day speak out about what a breath of fresh air that Shelton has been so far is speaking volumes with me at least from where I sit of how bad things got with Clint Hurdle last year within the clubhouse and just overall. I think you are going to start to see this kind of thing even more as ST moves along are players continuing to take indirect shots at Hurdle and his coaching staff.

It just seems like Shelton already has injected a fun loose atmosphere where it seems as if last year with Hurdle there was none of that. How this translates on the field and in the Win/loss column we’ll have to see but it’s just an early observation I noticed after hearing some players speak these first few days of Camp.

OrlandoMerced · Post by **OrlandoMerced** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:56 pm

The Crick comment was even more illuminating. He said something about the bullpen coach not letting him know that he was tipping his pitches, and that the coaches seeming to intend to make disfavored players struggle.

I think Searage was just completely losing his grip on everything, I don't think anyone can understate the incompetence reflected in their treatment of Glasnow. It is my opinion that Searage had one method for pitching success and if a pitcher couldn't execute that gameplan, then they were persona non grata to the organization.

I still think that Glasnow was only traded with the full backing of the MLB coaching staff. They don't agree to move him if they had any inclination as to what his actual value was. They were obstinate jagoffs who did significant damage to this organization between 2018 and 2019.

johnfluharty · Post by **johnfluharty** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:58 pm

At the same time, one player (Kela maybe) said Shelton will tell you what he thinks you need to hear and does not hold back the criticism, which he actually found refreshing. Those are not the exact words, but that was the gist. Shelton was able to do that without being off-putting apparently.

SteadyFreddy · Post by **SteadyFreddy** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:12 pm

Yea no doubt Searage was a complete and total disaster the last year or so. No telling how many pitchers he ruined over the last 2-3 years with both him and Hurdle’s methods that they were so stubborn of continuing to do the same things day in and day out thinking they were right and everybody else is a complete moron and knows nothing.

Ecbucs · Post by **Ecbucs** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:59 pm

4E736D606F656E4C6473626465010 wrote: The Crick comment was even more illuminating. He said something about the bullpen coach not letting him know that he was tipping his pitches, and that the coaches seeming to intend to make disfavored players struggle.

I think Searage was just completely losing his grip on everything, I don't think anyone can understate the incompetence reflected in their treatment of Glasnow. It is my opinion that Searage had one method for pitching success and if a pitcher couldn't execute that gameplan, then they were persona non grata to the organization.

I still think that Glasnow was only traded with the full backing of the MLB coaching staff. They don't agree to move him if they had any inclination as to what his actual value was. They were obstinate jagoffs who did significant damage to this organization between 2018 and 2019.

I think the analytics staff was a part of this too and NH signed off on it. It is going to be interesting to see if BC makes close to a 100% house cleaning of staff in his first year.

ArnoldRothstein · Post by **ArnoldRothstein** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:20 pm

Does anyone have a link to a story?

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:39 pm

537574637565160 wrote: The Crick comment was even more illuminating. He said something about the bullpen coach not letting him know that he was tipping his pitches, and that the coaches seeming to intend to make disfavored players struggle.

I think Searage was just completely losing his grip on everything, I don't think anyone can understate the incompetence reflected in their treatment of Glasnow. It is my opinion that Searage had one method for pitching success and if a pitcher couldn't execute that gameplan, then they were persona non grata to the organization.

I still think that Glasnow was only traded with the full backing of the MLB coaching staff. They don't agree to move him if they had any inclination as to what his actual value was. They were obstinate jagoffs who did significant damage to this organization between 2018 and 2019.

I think the analytics staff was a part of this too and NH signed off on it. It is going to be interesting to see if BC makes close to a 100% house cleaning of staff in his first year.

I was thinking the same thing. The NH regime always seemed to think they were smarter than everyone else. I suspect they came up with ideas for developing players and it was etched in stone. If it didn't work they just wrote off the player. Then Morton, Cole, Glasnow and Meadows went elsewhere and shined under different philosophies.

SteadyFreddy · Post by **SteadyFreddy** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:46 pm

Cole Tucker I think it was said that it’s a more loose and fun now with the new management now and it doesn’t feel like you are being judged and looked down upon for every little thing you do especially if you’re a young guy. I also think at the end of the day Hurdle just didn’t care anymore if they won or lost. I mean he cared obviously but he just reached a point of burn out I think and it really started showing last season especially after the All Star Break during the long losing streak. Hurdle would make comments when asked about the losing like he just didn’t care much saying things like “I have a wife and kids at home I’m not gonna let this ruin things for me.” Stuff like that you just don’t want to hear a manager say and I doubt we are gonna hear something like that come out of Derek Shelton’s mouth this year when things go South cause he ultimately I think wants to win and it will bother him when they don’t unlike it did for Hurdle.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:26 pm

I dunno. There was an article a few days ago that Shelton wanted to make things fun in ST. That's fine but they need a lot more than that. Last year they were dancing in the dugout before every loss. Didn't help. And the players all want something nice to say about their new boss when questioned by the media. So it's no surprise they mention it's fun. So I take all that with a grain of salt. Honestly, I would rather hear the players are working hard to master the fundamental weaknesses they previously had than to hear how much fun they are having. I know they won't have the talent to compete but I just want Shelton to get the most out of them (I always thought Hurdle was deficient in that area) and for the players to play smart and not beat themselves.

SteadyFreddy · Post by **SteadyFreddy** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:35 pm

We will see how things go with Shelton time will tell. I’m going to be very curious to see how he handles days off for players and juggling lineup decisions, and bullpen guys not being available like Clint always did. It will be a breath of fresh air if Shelton does the complete opposite and the Pirates see positive results.