OnlyBucs

I haven't been on the board in about a week. Life/work was busy and my wife and I took a long weekend trip to Richmond, VA.



This board is disappointing at the moment. Every single thread is full of the same negativity. One thread (I think the ST thread) even went on a rampage against the standard promotions that the Pirates (and all teams) do throughout the season and in game.



I have watched a couple of the preseason games. They are practice games. They pretty much switch to a roster of minor leaguers mid game (if it wasn't a minor league roster to begin with). Pitchers are purely working on certain pitches. Hitters are going to the plate trying to hit certain pitches to work on them. Are people really getting themselves out of sorts because of the preseason record? Really?



I started writing this response in the "poll" thread. I decided to start a new thread to add some balance to, what I perceive, a ton of negativity.



I'm excited about this season. My excitement will not be related to wins and losses. This is obvious. The Pirates will be bad this year. No FO was going to change that. No offseason plan was going to change that. It was obvious at the end of the season with the previous FO. They needed to sell out and lose to build for the future. It certainly seems like they are doing that. They traded their most valuable player. I suspect they are trying to drive up value for a few others (Bell, Archer, Williams, relief pitchers) and do the same with them. The play is for a couple of years down the road. For those that want to suggest that's what the Pirates always do. That is categorically wrong. NH's approach was to have a "competitive team" every year. This FO has sold that dream out and seems to be really focused about winning when there is a legit chance of that happening. Now is not that time. Henceforth, they aren't wasting money on some middling FA guys this year. Good for them.



I'm glad that we haven't spent any money on middling FA players. What's the point? The economic and competitive system of MLB not only doesn't reward sub-playoff winning, but it punishes it. Being the first team out of the playoffs is far worse than having the worst record in baseball.



I will love this year of baseball. Why? Because I love baseball and I love the Pirates. Maybe that makes me some sort of fool or sucker to Nutting and the Pirates. So be it.



Even when they are terrible, I love going to Pirates games. I have very little awareness of what they do in between innings. I go to games with friends who love baseball like I do. When the game stops, we talk about baseball...or life. I have been to hundreds of games at PNC Park and I still get excited every time I go.



I will be excited this year because of my kids/family. My 11 year old is more excited about baseball than he has ever been in his life. He wants to wear Pirates stuff every day, all day. We won't be watching a winning team, but we will get to watch our favorite team play our favorite game. They will have some great moments and a bunch of crappy moments. We will see which players will look like pieces for the future. We will see if Keller, Newman, Tucker, Reynolds, and Musgrove are pieces of a future core. We watch the minors to see how Hayes, Cruz, and others are progressing. We will have a great time watching baseball and talking about baseball in our house.



Some posters are so full of the negative on this team? Do you have joy in life? Do the Pirates bring you joy? If not, why do you follow so passionately?

+++++



Very well put, PMike. Enjoy the games, enjoy the time with your 11-year old. I enjoy seeing young players get a chance to play and to get better, and just to see baseball.

Yeah. It can be amusing listening in on old codgers sitting around on a general store's front porch bellyaching endlessly about the rich guy in town and his fancy Cadillac.



And then again, it can be a good reason to cross the street not go back to the store.

110C282A24410 wrote: Some posters are so full of the negative on this team?  Do you have joy in life?  Do the Pirates bring you joy?  If not, why do you follow so passionately?
I don't believe there is a correlation between negativity and passion for the team. So when the season looks like it will be dismal, we discuss that in depth. Most of us here have been fans for decades, even through the 20 year losing streak. We don't jump ship and look for another team. We don't tune out and wait for a better season. We love our Buccos. And we follow them closely enough to see all the warts. But that doesn't make us look away.



I'm out of state but I get the MLB Extra Innings package and rarely miss a game. Sometimes another fan comes over and we spend the afternoon watching the game (altho pizza and wine helps). I've already got tix to 2 of the games when the Pirates play in Baltimore in April. I look for any info on the Bucs everyday. I'm as much of a diehard Pirate fan as you'll find. But I'm negative about this team. I predict 57 wins. Not because I'm any less of a fan but because I follow them closely enough to see that as realistic. I want to see if this new regime will get any better results than the fired one, considering the owner is the same. As someone else noted recently, I too am anxious to see if a change in pitching philosophy will have a significant impact on the staff. Especially Keller. I look forward to seeing if Reynolds can build on his rookie season and establish himself as one the the NL's top hitters. Will Newman repeat last year? Will Frazier put a .300+ year together? Will Hayes and/or Tucker be ready to produce?



I think everyone here hopes to be wrong about the poor expectations for this team. Because we care passionately. Good or bad, the Pirates bring us joy just in the fact that they are the team we care so much about. But it is very frustrating to be a loyal fan of a franchise whose owner doesn't seem to care and presents the fans with a collection of players of whom very little can be expected and whose stay as a Pirate will likely be short if they are successful. So I think it's fair to say we can be passionate fans looking forward to Pirate baseball and negative about the outlook all at the same time.

557875646372652526170 wrote: Some posters are so full of the negative on this team?  Do you have joy in life?  Do the Pirates bring you joy?  If not, why do you follow so passionately?
I don't believe there is a correlation between negativity and passion for the team. So when the season looks like it will be dismal, we discuss that in depth. Most of us here have been fans for decades, even through the 20 year losing streak. We don't jump ship and look for another team. We don't tune out and wait for a better season. We love our Buccos. And we follow them closely enough to see all the warts. But that doesn't make us look away.



I'm out of state but I get the MLB Extra Innings package and rarely miss a game. Sometimes another fan comes over and we spend the afternoon watching the game (altho pizza and wine helps). I've already got tix to 2 of the games when the Pirates play in Baltimore in April. I look for any info on the Bucs everyday. I'm as much of a diehard Pirate fan as you'll find. But I'm negative about this team. I predict 57 wins. Not because I'm any less of a fan but because I follow them closely enough to see that as realistic. I want to see if this new regime will get any better results than the fired one, considering the owner is the same. As someone else noted recently, I too am anxious to see if a change in pitching philosophy will have a significant impact on the staff. Especially Keller. I look forward to seeing if Reynolds can build on his rookie season and establish himself as one the the NL's top hitters. Will Newman repeat last year? Will Frazier put a .300+ year together? Will Hayes and/or Tucker be ready to produce?



I think everyone here hopes to be wrong about the poor expectations for this team. Because we care passionately. Good or bad, the Pirates bring us joy just in the fact that they are the team we care so much about. But it is very frustrating to be a loyal fan of a franchise whose owner doesn't seem to care and presents the fans with a collection of players of whom very little can be expected and whose stay as a Pirate will likely be short if they are successful. So I think it's fair to say we can be passionate fans looking forward to Pirate baseball and negative about the outlook all at the same time.   






Bobster: you and I as usual are on the same page here. We have remained loyal fans through the decades. When you invest as much time and heart into this organization I believe we have every right to be negative when it is justified. This is not a world of unicorns and rainbows. I am very concerned that if Nutting continues to run this franchise in the same manner; then attendance will continue to plummet and new revenue streams may dry up. It would not be far fetched to see him move the franchise unless MLB interceded.

That would be a tragedy!

2A0F0C0C19320F070512600 wrote: Some posters are so full of the negative on this team?  Do you have joy in life?  Do the Pirates bring you joy?  If not, why do you follow so passionately?
I don't believe there is a correlation between negativity and passion for the team. So when the season looks like it will be dismal, we discuss that in depth. Most of us here have been fans for decades, even through the 20 year losing streak. We don't jump ship and look for another team. We don't tune out and wait for a better season. We love our Buccos. And we follow them closely enough to see all the warts. But that doesn't make us look away.



I'm out of state but I get the MLB Extra Innings package and rarely miss a game. Sometimes another fan comes over and we spend the afternoon watching the game (altho pizza and wine helps). I've already got tix to 2 of the games when the Pirates play in Baltimore in April. I look for any info on the Bucs everyday. I'm as much of a diehard Pirate fan as you'll find. But I'm negative about this team. I predict 57 wins. Not because I'm any less of a fan but because I follow them closely enough to see that as realistic. I want to see if this new regime will get any better results than the fired one, considering the owner is the same. As someone else noted recently, I too am anxious to see if a change in pitching philosophy will have a significant impact on the staff. Especially Keller. I look forward to seeing if Reynolds can build on his rookie season and establish himself as one the the NL's top hitters. Will Newman repeat last year? Will Frazier put a .300+ year together? Will Hayes and/or Tucker be ready to produce?



I think everyone here hopes to be wrong about the poor expectations for this team. Because we care passionately. Good or bad, the Pirates bring us joy just in the fact that they are the team we care so much about. But it is very frustrating to be a loyal fan of a franchise whose owner doesn't seem to care and presents the fans with a collection of players of whom very little can be expected and whose stay as a Pirate will likely be short if they are successful. So I think it's fair to say we can be passionate fans looking forward to Pirate baseball and negative about the outlook all at the same time.   

_______






  Bobster: you and I as usual are on the same page here. We have remained loyal fans through the decades. When you invest as much time and heart into this organization I believe we have every right to be negative when it is justified. This is not a world of unicorns and rainbows. I am very concerned that if Nutting continues to run this franchise in the same manner; then attendance will continue to plummet and new revenue streams may dry up. It would not be far fetched to see him move the franchise unless MLB interceded.

That would be a tragedy!
__________

Me2. I have a Pirate scrapbook that has a date on the cover of 1955. That means I have been a Pirate fan for 65 years. I have been with them through the WS years as well as all of the down years. You take the good with the bad. But, it is particularly difficult to accept this Management which WILL NOT spend any money to put a competitive product on the field. They use a Management change as an opportunity savings as they hide behind "we have to see what we have" to keep salaries low. Then, it will be "well, we are a young team and as those players progress into arbitration years and FA years, salaries will naturally rise". When the players reach arbitration and FA, they are dashed off as "clubhouse cancers" like Cole and Aramis Ramirez. The only thing this selfish greedy owner cares about is further enriching himself.

0C292A2A3F1429212334460 wrote: Some posters are so full of the negative on this team?  Do you have joy in life?  Do the Pirates bring you joy?  If not, why do you follow so passionately?
I don't believe there is a correlation between negativity and passion for the team. So when the season looks like it will be dismal, we discuss that in depth. Most of us here have been fans for decades, even through the 20 year losing streak. We don't jump ship and look for another team. We don't tune out and wait for a better season. We love our Buccos. And we follow them closely enough to see all the warts. But that doesn't make us look away.



I'm out of state but I get the MLB Extra Innings package and rarely miss a game. Sometimes another fan comes over and we spend the afternoon watching the game (altho pizza and wine helps). I've already got tix to 2 of the games when the Pirates play in Baltimore in April. I look for any info on the Bucs everyday. I'm as much of a diehard Pirate fan as you'll find. But I'm negative about this team. I predict 57 wins. Not because I'm any less of a fan but because I follow them closely enough to see that as realistic. I want to see if this new regime will get any better results than the fired one, considering the owner is the same. As someone else noted recently, I too am anxious to see if a change in pitching philosophy will have a significant impact on the staff. Especially Keller. I look forward to seeing if Reynolds can build on his rookie season and establish himself as one the the NL's top hitters. Will Newman repeat last year? Will Frazier put a .300+ year together? Will Hayes and/or Tucker be ready to produce?



I think everyone here hopes to be wrong about the poor expectations for this team. Because we care passionately. Good or bad, the Pirates bring us joy just in the fact that they are the team we care so much about. But it is very frustrating to be a loyal fan of a franchise whose owner doesn't seem to care and presents the fans with a collection of players of whom very little can be expected and whose stay as a Pirate will likely be short if they are successful. So I think it's fair to say we can be passionate fans looking forward to Pirate baseball and negative about the outlook all at the same time.   






  Bobster: you and I as usual are on the same page here. We have remained loyal fans through the decades. When you invest as much time and heart into this organization I believe we have every right to be negative when it is justified. This is not a world of unicorns and rainbows. I am very concerned that if Nutting continues to run this franchise in the same manner; then attendance will continue to plummet and new revenue streams may dry

up. It would not be far fetched to see him move the franchise unless MLB interceded.

That would be a tragedy!


I guess I am about the oldest codger here a OBN. I have become a diehard Pirates Fan. Even in bad health I will do my darndest to make at least one game this year to keep my streak alive at 62 consecutive seasons. Yes, moving my beloved Pirates would be like having Mrs. Possum pass away! As dark as things seem right now I believe that Pennies may be having a bit of a change of heart. Time will tell if he extends the young guys and really goes all out to keep Bell around for life.

3E252829202C234D0 wrote: When the players reach arbitration and FA, they are dashed off as "clubhouse cancers" like Cole and Aramis Ramirez. 
The Ramirez trade was strictly about money. Apparently there is an MLB rule pertaining to payroll vs revenue to ensure teams can pay their players. In 2003, Ramirez' salary jumped from $500,000 to $3,000,000. It appeared they were running afoul of the rule and had to quickly cut payroll to meet the criteria. Kris Benson was making 4.3 million that year and the Pirates arranged a trade of Benson to Atlanta to free up the needed payroll. But before the trade could be finalized, Benson hurt his arm on July 17 and missed the rest of the season. On July 23, the Ramirez/Lofton deal was made for minimum salaried guys Bobby Hill and Matt Bruback and washed up veteran Jose Hernandez who made about the same salary as Lofton. Lofton was having a very good year and should have been sufficient to get the 3 bums Littlefield acquired. But the deal was all about cutting payroll. The pity is that Littlefield didn't shop them around for a better deal.

Well, on the bright side, the grumpy old men at least know how to use modern technology. So rest assured, none of them will be the one you're behind at the grocery store acting like it takes a PhD in physics to use a debit card.



I hate to say it, but be thankful for the two or three championships you did see. And you guys throwing out your fan cards and years, what exactly are you remembering FCOL? I was born in 1960, so I'm no spring chicken. The Pirates have had 25 winning seasons in my lifetime, nine of those coming during the 1970's, 36 percent of them to be exact. Since their WS win in 1979, they have been to the playoffs 6 times. Three under the current ownership. One can only ponder had the WC rules not changed, because the Bucs were the number 1 all three times, which in the old days gets them right into a series.



So the 90-92 Bucs won their division. And they choked 3 straight years. And what was the biggest sin of them all? Pirates too cheap to pay for a bonafide closer, and that cost them. And what became of that 92 team? The only difference between then and now is a vibrant internet and multiple platforms. They are cheap now. They were cheap then. They were cheap every step of the way. The only difference, is that the last time they were a powerhouse, FA was just in it's infancy.



I'm seriously wondering what good old days some of you are pondering. They had 6 winning seasons in 20 years between the 40's and 50's. That's 31 winning seasons in an 80 year span. None of us I'm guessing have a memory of not making the playoffs for 33 straight seasons. And if I had to go out on a limb, I'd say many of us older folks are lucky, because we saw WS winners, and the run of futility is probably going to exceed the Red Sox and Cubs at some point. The gulf is too wide in MLB. If Nutting spends 125 million a year, nothing's going to change.



Honestly, I'm just going back to being an 8 year old fan again, where I was just happy to be able to see the Pirates in Pittsburgh. That's probably the best future fans can hope for.



Oh, as far as give aways, fireworks, etc. They've ALWAYS done that stuff. And seriously, complaining about a sponsors logo on something? Good Lord, get a grip....take the effing thing, and DONATE IT you miserable bastage!



Let's Go Bucs!!

I've loved baseball longer than anything in my 67 years, except for my parents and siblings, of course.  It's such a big part of who I am, and my interest in it, especially the Pirates, will never waiver.  I suspect almost all of us are the same.



The negativity surrounding the current situation isn't the problem.  That's just part of being a fan.  Rather than negativity, it's apathy from fans that the organization should worry about.  When fans stop caring, death is near.



Admittedly, I'm grateful to have Major League Baseball in Pittsburgh.  Perhaps I've taken it for granted.  But I want them to try to win.  I realize that small market franchises have longer odds, but it's not impossible, and market size doesn't excuse an owner from not trying.  Tampa and Oakland have proven time and again that success can happen.



My outlook for this season is dim because the Front Office is starting over with a roster and farm system that are wanting, to be kind.  The one thing I'm most happy about, and gives me hope, is that Coonelly, Huntington, and Hurdle are gone.  They were the wrong people who, I thought, had given up.  That's likely because of the owner, who remains a roadblock to success.  But I also believe that the right people in the Front Office can overcome a bad owner.



To me, it's not enough to just simply have a ball team in town.  The organization has to try to win.  That's the objective.  It's obvious, by his actions, that the owner doesn't have that as his primary goal.  Over the last four years, in particular, that permeated throughout the organization.  I just hope these new guys are immune to it.