OnlyBucs

The Pittsburgh Pirates declined their $11M option on Chris Archer, making the right-hander a free agent, per Jason Mackey of PGSportsNow (via Twitter).



https://twitter.com/JMackeyPG/status/13 ... 5810392064

I'm shocked! (Said no one.)

I wish him the best. I know my expectations for how he could help the team were too high, but he seems like a good dude.

63444F6C210 wrote: I wish him the best. I know my expectations for how he could help the team were too high, but he seems like a good dude.


I agree, the problem was the Bucs evaluation of Archer and what he could be expected to do rather with Archer himself.



If Archer would have gone say 6-2 in 2018 with an ERA of 3.30 and then started 30-32 games in 2019 and won 15 or more with an ERA of 3.50 or less it would not be a lopsided deal.

At the time of the trade in 2018 I was aware that Archer's numbers had fallen off sharply since his good seasons of 2013-15. But because NH gave up sp much to get him I thought the numbers must lie and that NH had knowledge that Archer was still a top pitcher despite his declining stats. Unfortunately, the stats did not lie and Archer's time as a Pirate merely continued his downward spiral. In fact, he got worse.



The Archer trade was disastrous and inexcusable. Archer was not a reclamation project like Liriano or Volquez. Those guys didn't cost anything more than a cheap FA contract because no one else wanted them after they had declined. But NH gave away the farm to get the declining Archer. Inexcusable.

It feels like NH recognized his time at Pittsburgh was in danger if he didn't produce soon, so he took a gamble at catching lightning in a bottle. One of the earlier GM's (whose name I've mercifully now forgotten - see, old age isn't all bad) traded someone to the Giants and took on a $10MM contract for Morris (again, as I recall), a washed-out pitcher at the time.

74766C6A7C190 wrote: It feels like NH recognized his time at Pittsburgh was in danger if he didn't produce soon, so he took a gamble at catching lightning in a bottle. One of the earlier GM's (whose name I've mercifully now forgotten - see, old age isn't all bad) traded someone to the Giants and took on a $10MM contract for Morris (again, as I recall), a washed-out pitcher at the time.
Good point. Dave Littlefield traded Rajai Davis for Morris and was so desperate to get the deal done at the deadline that he took on the entire 10 mil contract even tho SF had been offering Morris around to anyone interested with an offer to pay part of his contract. Morris was a "name" pitcher who had once been outstanding but had declined into an ineffective pitcher by the time the Pirates traded for him. There were rumors at the time that Littlefield's disastrous tenure was about to come to an end. And the deal was made at the trade deadline, which suggests Littlefield had probably failed to come up with anything else to save his job.



Davis was not highly thought of at the time (another sign of Pirate incompetence in player evaluation) but went on to have a nice 14 year career that ended only a year ago at age 38.



The Archer deal shows player evaluation did not improve with Huntington.

5D707D6C6B7A6D2D2E1F0 wrote: At the time of the trade in 2018 I was aware that Archer's numbers had fallen off sharply since his good seasons of 2013-15. But because NH gave up sp much to get him I thought the numbers must lie and that NH had knowledge that Archer was still a top pitcher despite his declining stats. Unfortunately, the stats did not lie and Archer's time as a Pirate merely continued his downward spiral. In fact, he got worse.



The Archer trade was disastrous and inexcusable. Archer was not a reclamation project like Liriano or Volquez. Those guys didn't cost anything more than a cheap FA contract because no one else wanted them after they had declined. But NH gave away the farm to get the declining Archer. Inexcusable.   


Time has its way of fading memory. Liriano's "cheap" signing back in 2013 was for $3,500,000/year.



That's huge money- today- by BOB Nutting Standards, let alone seven years ago. We don't have many above that now. And, the ones who are making it are no Francisco Liriano.

625740404B7240404B4C40250 wrote: At the time of the trade in 2018 I was aware that Archer's numbers had fallen off sharply since his good seasons of 2013-15. But because NH gave up sp much to get him I thought the numbers must lie and that NH had knowledge that Archer was still a top pitcher despite his declining stats. Unfortunately, the stats did not lie and Archer's time as a Pirate merely continued his downward spiral. In fact, he got worse.



The Archer trade was disastrous and inexcusable. Archer was not a reclamation project like Liriano or Volquez. Those guys didn't cost anything more than a cheap FA contract because no one else wanted them after they had declined. But NH gave away the farm to get the declining Archer. Inexcusable.   


Time has its way of fading memory.  Liriano's "cheap" signing back in 2013 was for $3,500,000/year. 



That's huge money- today- by BOB Nutting Standards, let alone seven years ago.  We don't have many above that now.  And, the ones who are making it are no Francisco Liriano. 


No, he signed a 1-year deal for 1 million in 2013. But he had a good year and re-signed for 6 million in 2014. So in 2 years he made 7 million but it was not 2 year/3.5 mil per year signing when he was coming off the scrap heap in 2013. He had to prove himself that year to get the bigger contract the following year.



Memory intact! 

The Pirates agreed with Liriano for 2 years, $13 million, going into 2013.  He broke his right arm in a household injury, though, and the deal was voided when he couldn't pass the physical.   They reworked the deal for substantially the same money, but with only $1 million guaranteed and the rest in 2013 incentives and a club option for 2014.