It seems to me that he is. Some things that I think should be kept in mind:
1. His team's won as many as 98 games in a season. No Pirate GM since Barney Dreyfuss has won more games in a season;
2. It's a shame, but running into Bumgarner and Arrieta in the playoffs was just bad luck. The one's postseason heroics and the other's sudden, short-lived lurch into being the best pitcher in the world are going to be mentioned in baseball history books forever.
3. It's very unfair to portray him as neglecting the lower minors. He was just filling them via the draft instead of via trades. They had four very high picks, they went big with Alvarez, Taillon, and Cole. They went very big on drafting and signing overdrafts: Robbie Grossman, Quinton Miller, Zach Dodson, Zach von Rosenberg, Colton Cain, Jeff Inman, Stetson Allie, Nick Kingham, Drew Maggie, Josh Bell, Tyler Glasnow, Clay Holmes. They also gave real money to Luis Heredia. It looks like a mountain of suck now, but people were very excited by these signings when they happened.
4. His early trades are becoming caricatures. Yes, he got Andy LaRoche, but Bryan Morris was also in that trade. He got Jeff Clement and Ronny Cedeno, but also young pitchers. He got Kevin Hart, but also Josh Harrison. He got Jeff Karstens, but also Tabata. He got Charlie Morton, but also Jeff Locke. He got a lot of guys who had failed major league trials, but he also got real prospects.
5. He, as much as anyone, broke the draft. When the lowly Pirates signed the unsignable Josh Bell and set a record for draft spending, the others got together and stopped the competition for amateur players. NH never found his Plan B, but he never really got a full shot at implementing Plan A.
Is NH just getting bashed now?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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maher.timothy20@gm
Is NH just getting bashed now?
The 2015 team was maybe the unluckiest of the last decade. 98 wins gets you a division title the vast, vast majority of the time. But they got edged out.
Also, they one-game playoff screwed them two years running. What are the odds that the hottest single pitcher in baseball would happen to come from the second wildcard in the NL? But that's what happened and we got Madbum/Arietta.
If the Cards had lost a few more games in '15 and if we didn't run into those two pitchers, who knows?
Not to mention the cheap owner.
Having said that, I'm glad we moved on. I don't know what the hell goes on behind closed doors but he should have pushed harder for more in 2016. And the Archer trade was a catastrophe.
Also, they one-game playoff screwed them two years running. What are the odds that the hottest single pitcher in baseball would happen to come from the second wildcard in the NL? But that's what happened and we got Madbum/Arietta.
If the Cards had lost a few more games in '15 and if we didn't run into those two pitchers, who knows?
Not to mention the cheap owner.
Having said that, I'm glad we moved on. I don't know what the hell goes on behind closed doors but he should have pushed harder for more in 2016. And the Archer trade was a catastrophe.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3481
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Is NH just getting bashed now?
I agree Neal made some poor trades during the last year or two of his tenure, but who knows if his hands were tied, and possibly Frank Coonelly pushed NH to make the Archer trade. A small market team like the Pirates cannot trade 3 high end prospects for a pitcher who was trending downward. I liked what Neal did by getting the Bucs into 3 Wild Card games, but now I support what BC is doing to bring the Pirates back to a winning organization.
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DemDog
Is NH just getting bashed now?
The problem with NH was not so much is unluckiness at acquiring players through the draft as not being able to develop those players so they could make contenders and winners out of the Bucs. Or be good trade chips when the Bucs were on the brink of a championship.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3481
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Is NH just getting bashed now?
57767E577C74130 wrote: The problem with NH was not so much is unluckiness at acquiring players through the draft as not being able to develop those players so they could make contenders and winners out of the Bucs. Or be good trade chips when the Bucs were on the brink of a championship.
That is a good point, and I hope that the people that BC has hired can bring out the best in the players drafted as well as acquired in trades. Cherington has a developmental background, and I believe we are going to see some very good results in a year or two.
That is a good point, and I hope that the people that BC has hired can bring out the best in the players drafted as well as acquired in trades. Cherington has a developmental background, and I believe we are going to see some very good results in a year or two.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Is NH just getting bashed now?
705159705B53340 wrote: The problem with NH was not so much is unluckiness at acquiring players through the draft as not being able to develop those players so they could make contenders and winners out of the Bucs. Or be good trade chips when the Bucs were on the brink of a championship.
It's hard to tell if it was Huntington's poor drafting or the poor development of his players (probably both), but one thing stood out to me over all else. In all of his years of drafting players, only one position player contributed positively over an extended period of time, and that was Jordy Mercer. (I liked Jordy. He was a steady defensive player, but he was a bottom five SS during his time here.) That's a pretty bad performance for a GM.
It's hard to tell if it was Huntington's poor drafting or the poor development of his players (probably both), but one thing stood out to me over all else. In all of his years of drafting players, only one position player contributed positively over an extended period of time, and that was Jordy Mercer. (I liked Jordy. He was a steady defensive player, but he was a bottom five SS during his time here.) That's a pretty bad performance for a GM.
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DemDog
Is NH just getting bashed now?
643224303F25353E332416313B373F3A7835560 wrote: The problem with NH was not so much is unluckiness at acquiring players through the draft as not being able to develop those players so they could make contenders and winners out of the Bucs. Or be good trade chips when the Bucs were on the brink of a championship.
It's hard to tell if it was Huntington's poor drafting or the poor development of his players (probably both), but one thing stood out to me over all else. In all of his years of drafting players, only one position player contributed positively over an extended period of time, and that was Jordy Mercer. (I liked Jordy. He was a steady defensive player, but he was a bottom five SS during his time here.) That's a pretty bad performance for a GM.
Comments that make you go Ummm! Jordy was not the best, not the worst, he just went out and did the job on a game by game basis and never really embarrassed himself.
It's hard to tell if it was Huntington's poor drafting or the poor development of his players (probably both), but one thing stood out to me over all else. In all of his years of drafting players, only one position player contributed positively over an extended period of time, and that was Jordy Mercer. (I liked Jordy. He was a steady defensive player, but he was a bottom five SS during his time here.) That's a pretty bad performance for a GM.
Comments that make you go Ummm! Jordy was not the best, not the worst, he just went out and did the job on a game by game basis and never really embarrassed himself.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Is NH just getting bashed now?
14353D143F37500 wrote: The problem with NH was not so much is unluckiness at acquiring players through the draft as not being able to develop those players so they could make contenders and winners out of the Bucs. Or be good trade chips when the Bucs were on the brink of a championship.
It's hard to tell if it was Huntington's poor drafting or the poor development of his players (probably both), but one thing stood out to me over all else. In all of his years of drafting players, only one position player contributed positively over an extended period of time, and that was Jordy Mercer. (I liked Jordy. He was a steady defensive player, but he was a bottom five SS during his time here.) That's a pretty bad performance for a GM.
Comments that make you go Ummm! Jordy was not the best, not the worst, he just went out and did the job on a game by game basis and never really embarrassed himself.
Yes, Mercer was steady, and rarely made mistakes. But he was of no help offensively. Fortunately, during the playoff years, there were enough bats in the line-up that his wasn't needed.
It's hard to tell if it was Huntington's poor drafting or the poor development of his players (probably both), but one thing stood out to me over all else. In all of his years of drafting players, only one position player contributed positively over an extended period of time, and that was Jordy Mercer. (I liked Jordy. He was a steady defensive player, but he was a bottom five SS during his time here.) That's a pretty bad performance for a GM.
Comments that make you go Ummm! Jordy was not the best, not the worst, he just went out and did the job on a game by game basis and never really embarrassed himself.
Yes, Mercer was steady, and rarely made mistakes. But he was of no help offensively. Fortunately, during the playoff years, there were enough bats in the line-up that his wasn't needed.
Is NH just getting bashed now?
702630242B31212A273002252F232B2E6C21420 wrote: The problem with NH was not so much is unluckiness at acquiring players through the draft as not being able to develop those players so they could make contenders and winners out of the Bucs. Or be good trade chips when the Bucs were on the brink of a championship.
It's hard to tell if it was Huntington's poor drafting or the poor development of his players (probably both), but one thing stood out to me over all else. In all of his years of drafting players, only one position player contributed positively over an extended period of time, and that was Jordy Mercer. (I liked Jordy. He was a steady defensive player, but he was a bottom five SS during his time here.) That's a pretty bad performance for a GM.
Comments that make you go Ummm! Jordy was not the best, not the worst, he just went out and did the job on a game by game basis and never really embarrassed himself.
Yes, Mercer was steady, and rarely made mistakes. But he was of no help offensively. Fortunately, during the playoff years, there were enough bats in the line-up that his wasn't needed.
Clint Barnes thinks Mercer was great on offense.
It's hard to tell if it was Huntington's poor drafting or the poor development of his players (probably both), but one thing stood out to me over all else. In all of his years of drafting players, only one position player contributed positively over an extended period of time, and that was Jordy Mercer. (I liked Jordy. He was a steady defensive player, but he was a bottom five SS during his time here.) That's a pretty bad performance for a GM.
Comments that make you go Ummm! Jordy was not the best, not the worst, he just went out and did the job on a game by game basis and never really embarrassed himself.
Yes, Mercer was steady, and rarely made mistakes. But he was of no help offensively. Fortunately, during the playoff years, there were enough bats in the line-up that his wasn't needed.
Clint Barnes thinks Mercer was great on offense.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Is NH just getting bashed now?
795F5E495F4F3C0 wrote: The problem with NH was not so much is unluckiness at acquiring players through the draft as not being able to develop those players so they could make contenders and winners out of the Bucs. Or be good trade chips when the Bucs were on the brink of a championship.
It's hard to tell if it was Huntington's poor drafting or the poor development of his players (probably both), but one thing stood out to me over all else. In all of his years of drafting players, only one position player contributed positively over an extended period of time, and that was Jordy Mercer. (I liked Jordy. He was a steady defensive player, but he was a bottom five SS during his time here.) That's a pretty bad performance for a GM.
Comments that make you go Ummm! Jordy was not the best, not the worst, he just went out and did the job on a game by game basis and never really embarrassed himself.
Yes, Mercer was steady, and rarely made mistakes. But he was of no help offensively. Fortunately, during the playoff years, there were enough bats in the line-up that his wasn't needed.
Clint Barnes thinks Mercer was great on offense.
;D
It's hard to tell if it was Huntington's poor drafting or the poor development of his players (probably both), but one thing stood out to me over all else. In all of his years of drafting players, only one position player contributed positively over an extended period of time, and that was Jordy Mercer. (I liked Jordy. He was a steady defensive player, but he was a bottom five SS during his time here.) That's a pretty bad performance for a GM.
Comments that make you go Ummm! Jordy was not the best, not the worst, he just went out and did the job on a game by game basis and never really embarrassed himself.
Yes, Mercer was steady, and rarely made mistakes. But he was of no help offensively. Fortunately, during the playoff years, there were enough bats in the line-up that his wasn't needed.
Clint Barnes thinks Mercer was great on offense.
;D