OnlyBucs

The Pirates are at 51 wins, which would have been their total based on their winning percentage in 2020 over a 162 game schedule.



The next win will show an improvement over last years squad, and each subsequent win will reflect that much more improvement.



Small steps for a team that most want the manager gone, a couple that want the GM gone, all want the owner gone, and with the subtraction of the following who were part of that 2020 team and received significant playing time with the exception of Jameson Taillon and were let go/traded prior to or during this season:

Jameson Taillon

Josh Bell

Joe Musgrove

Adam Frazier

Richard Rodriguez

Gregory Polanco

Trevor Williams

Geoff Hartlieb

Jose Osuna



One could argue the Pirates would have more wins this year had they kept some of those guys. One could also argue, when they HAD ALL of those guys, they were worse.



The record speaks for itself.

But the record doesn't really speak for itself. That's the problem. They aren't playing the same percentage of games against the same opponents with the quality of those opponents being unchanged since last season. That would be the only way to extrapolate the stats to show improvement.



They only played 9 other teams last year. They are playing 19 this year. Of those 9 opponents from 2020, 4 (Reds, Brewers, Tigers, Royals) are improved this year and 5 (Cubs, Cardinals, White Sox, Indians, Twins) are worse this year. The bulk of games last year was within the division. The Pirates were 16-24 (.400) in those games. In division games this year they are 17-47 (.266). 



In general, the combined records of their opponents last year not including games against the Pirates was .500 (238-238). The combined records of their opponents so far this year not including games against the Pirates is .492 (1,249-1,291). So the case could be made that their opponents are generally weaker this year than last. In any case, there are too many variables to simply conclude that a comparison of winning percentages from last year's truncated season vs few opponents to the pct in a full season this year vs many opponents, none of which are playing the same as they did last year, is an indication of improvement.   

7B565B4A4D5C4B0B08390 wrote: But the record doesn't really speak for itself. That's the problem. They aren't playing the same number of games against the same opponents with the quality of those opponents being unchanged since last season. That would be the only way to extrapolate the stats to show improvement.



They only played 9 other teams last year. They are playing 19 this year. Of those 9 opponents from 2020, 4 (Reds, Brewers, Tigers, Royals) are improved this year and 5 (Cubs, Cardinals, White Sox, Indians, Twins) are worse this year. The bulk of games last year was within the division. The Pirates were 16-24 (.400) in those games. In division games this year they are 17-47 (.266). 



In general, the combined records of their opponents last year not including games against the Pirates was .500 (238-238). The combined records of their opponents so far this year not including games against the Pirates is .492 (1,249-1,291). So the case could be made that their opponents are generally weaker this year than last. In any case, there are too many variables to simply conclude that a comparison of winning percentages from last year's truncated season vs few opponents to the pct in a full season this year vs many opponents, none of which are playing the same as they did last year, is an indication of improvement.   
I agree to an extent. However, in the end, when discussing and comparing seasons, none of that stuff is brought to the table. Every season has something like that. Games against the other league where you played them when they were "weaker". Teams have missed the top pitcher in two series. There are always a million things you can bring up.



In the end, all we have is the record. That is the only constant. You can go by "place" but if you finish fourth with a 70-92 record one year, then the next finish third with the same record, did you improve? You can say the same by how many games back.



The only constant is the record. It speaks for itself, and it stands against all the other records. If you talk about the best team in a franchise's history, and it's from 1912, is that really the best judge? You played so few teams over and over and over.



But we don't talk about those things. We simply point to the record. It's the only constant.

0A2C2B3E373B2C3A32590 wrote: But the record doesn't really speak for itself. That's the problem. They aren't playing the same number of games against the same opponents with the quality of those opponents being unchanged since last season. That would be the only way to extrapolate the stats to show improvement.



They only played 9 other teams last year. They are playing 19 this year. Of those 9 opponents from 2020, 4 (Reds, Brewers, Tigers, Royals) are improved this year and 5 (Cubs, Cardinals, White Sox, Indians, Twins) are worse this year. The bulk of games last year was within the division. The Pirates were 16-24 (.400) in those games. In division games this year they are 17-47 (.266). 



In general, the combined records of their opponents last year not including games against the Pirates was .500 (238-238). The combined records of their opponents so far this year not including games against the Pirates is .492 (1,249-1,291). So the case could be made that their opponents are generally weaker this year than last. In any case, there are too many variables to simply conclude that a comparison of winning percentages from last year's truncated season vs few opponents to the pct in a full season this year vs many opponents, none of which are playing the same as they did last year, is an indication of improvement.   
I agree to an extent. However, in the end, when discussing and comparing seasons, none of that stuff is brought to the table. Every season has something like that. Games against the other league where you played them when they were "weaker". Teams have missed the top pitcher in two series. There are always a million things you can bring up.



In the end, all we have is the record. That is the only constant. You can go by "place" but if you finish fourth with a 70-92 record one year, then the next finish third with the same record, did you improve? You can say the same by how many games back.



The only constant is the record. It speaks for itself, and it stands against all the other records. If you talk about the best team in a franchise's history, and it's from 1912, is that really the best judge? You played so few teams over and over and over.



But we don't talk about those things. We simply point to the record. It's the only constant.
I would generally agree with you if we were talking about normal year to year comparisons. We like to see improvement in the record without asking questions about it. But last year was an anomaly. It was so off-the-charts different as a mere fraction of a season vs a small handful of teams that a comparison of winning percentages extrapolated for a normal schedule just doesn't show anything. Let's see how this year's record compares to next year's. But 2020 has to be the outlier.