OnlyBucs

...Than To Post This:



https://www.mlb.com/news/pirates-2022-roster-breakdown



Discuss!

Good idea putting this in its own thread. This stuff has been talked about over the last month in various threads.



My thoughts are there has to be a sort of domino effect started. Tsutsugo is that first domino IMHO from the position stand point. I don't feel the Pirates will wait long for any decision on his part if they offer him a deal. I think Moran is gone if Yoshi remains a Pirate.



I think the starting rotation gets a fair shake in ST to show their stuff before they go scrap heaping. Presumably Brubaker, Kuhl, Crowe, Brault, Peter's, De Jong, Keller, Kranick, Contreras, and Yajure will be healthy. That's 10 guys so even AAA has some bodies too. I don't foresee anyone coming in as a free agent before the middle of March.



The relief corps for every team is a revolving door save for a few horses. Look at Matzek for the braves this year. He was pretty much washed up not long ago before he righted his ship. Pirates have Bednar and Stratton to build a base. Shreve did well. After that it was hit or miss but mostly getting hit. Probably the area we see a lot of ST invites minor league deals low level free agent signings.



I think Gamel and Difo should be retained. Not necessarily as starters but they are the kind of guys every team likes even as subs. Two more guys who resurrected their careers here.



I think they stay with Perez. Save for a handful of guys catchers by and large aren't hitting much these days. Perez just getting to .200 doesn't seem far fetched and probably number one rebound candidate.

032522373E3225333B500 wrote: Good idea putting this in its own thread. This stuff has been talked about over the last month in various threads.



My thoughts are there has to be a sort of domino effect started. Tsutsugo is that first domino IMHO from the position stand point. I don't feel the Pirates will wait long for any decision on his part if they offer him a deal.  I think Moran is gone if Yoshi remains a Pirate.



I think the starting rotation gets a fair shake in ST to show their stuff before they go scrap heaping. Presumably Brubaker, Kuhl, Crowe, Brault, Peter's, De Jong, Keller, Kranick, Contreras, and Yajure will be healthy. That's 10 guys so even AAA has some bodies too. I don't foresee anyone coming in as a free agent before the middle of March.



The relief corps for every team is a revolving door save for a few horses. Look at Matzek for the braves this year. He was pretty much washed up not long ago before he righted his ship. Pirates have Bednar and Stratton to build a base. Shreve did well. After that it was hit or miss but mostly getting hit. Probably the area we see a lot of ST invites minor league deals low level free agent signings.



I think Gamel and Difo should be retained. Not necessarily as starters but they are the kind of guys every team likes even as subs. Two more guys who resurrected their careers here.



I think they stay with Perez. Save for a handful of guys catchers by and large aren't hitting much these days. Perez just getting to .200 doesn't  seem far fetched and probably number one rebound candidate.




I am already campaigning for Stallings to play more. During the season, I kept mentioning how many games Molina was playing

Resurrected? Come on. Gotta be kidding. They barely even HAD careers before they came here.



I made a tongue-in-cheek "bet" with fellow welcher, Dave, that Moran's gone. We don't need any "coach." We need guys.



Once we get past Reynolds, Bednar, and I'll be nice and say Stallings, I'm not sure how much it really matters who stays and who goes in the grand scheme of things.



There's still time left to milk The Huntington Excuse, so I'll just kick back and watch it play out.

I think that in order to protect as many rule 5 eligible prospects as possible, some 2021 minor leaguers will be on the bench or in the BP on the 2022 26 man roster. It doesn't make sense to follow the usual practice of dumpster diving to fill out the 26 man roster if those bums will result in losing prospects because they weren't protected on the 40.

I would be surprised if Yoshi were on the team next year, especially if the DH comes to the National League. There's enough interest in him based on what he showed this year that someone will outbid the Pirates. If he does stay, I agree with the others who have suggested Moran will be gone. They do seem to be the same player in many ways.

3E3C262036530 wrote: I would be surprised if Yoshi were on the team next year, especially if the DH comes to the National League. There's enough interest in him based on what he showed this year that someone will outbid the Pirates. If he does stay, I agree with the others who have suggested Moran will be gone. They do seem to be the same player in many ways.
I think the Pirates will offer Yoshi a contract right out of the gate, but it will be a "this is our best offer, no need to negotiate, and you have this much time to get back to us" kind of thing.



I think the fact he didn't get a contract before the end of the season is kind of telling though. I will add, BC may not be one of those GM's who will do things like what the Cardinals and Braves did with Molina, Wainwright, and Morton.

5C697E7E754C7E7E75727E1B0 wrote: Resurrected?  Come on.  Gotta be kidding.  They barely even HAD careers before they came here. 



I made a tongue-in-cheek "bet" with fellow welcher, Dave, that Moran's gone.  We don't need any "coach."  We need guys. 



Once we get past Reynolds, Bednar, and I'll be nice and say Stallings, I'm not sure how much it really matters who stays and who goes in the grand scheme of things.



There's still time left to milk The Huntington Excuse, so I'll just kick back and watch it play out.








The long list of guys who were going to be turning 28 or older at some point in 2022 is quite an extensive list. I keep hearing that 28-30 is pretty much the peak years for most guys. The fact that so many of them have yet to really establish themselves as a solid major leaguer is staggering. And when I say solid major leaguer, I mean they should be approaching a 1.5-2 WAR level of performance. Only Bednar and Stallings were at that level, posting 2.1 and 3.0 numbers. The only other players on the teams with greater than a 1.0 WAR were Shreve 1.2, Hayes 2.4, Reynolds 6.0, Stratton 1.1. And Shreve and Stratton also are part of the 28 and older group.



It was posted a long time ago that for a team as bad as the Pirates, they also were not really a young team in terms of their roster. Of the guys who ended 2021 on the 40 man roster including the 8 guys on the 60 day IL, 29 of them are in that group that should be at the peak of their careers.



The article talked about things like a guy being lefthanded, veteran presence, that sort of thing. I don't think Crouse has been paying attention. None of those things matter to BC.



The roster turn over is going to be enormous IMHO, and will end up with most of those 28 and older somethings being replaced, along with a good number of under 28 somethings.



When a team is a losing one, I think the common denominator among fans is "let the kids play". Well, with the exception of you and Shed, you're more than happy with an 88 loss team as long as it's filled with guys with "veteran presence" (read- Not league minimum guy) .



Aside from that, I think BC is going to go for a much younger roster. But I also feel that guys who end up on the 40 man have a better than average chance at seeing the big leagues. I think a big part of the CBA that will go away is the "not starting the clock" thing so a team gets an extra season of control. I don't think he's going to be worrying about starting any clocks.



I'm sure there's somewhere that shows the average age of a teams 40 man roster. I don't like that because one or two guys can skew it. I like looking at it from my POV. The "peak" for guys is obviously individual, and can be debated. What can't be is that with the exception of some starting pitchers, MOST players have started showing they are real major league players by age 25-27, and that for most of them their peak will be over by age 30.



Either we have 29 late bloomers, or we have a pretty bad roster.



It's not the NH excuse, as you like to keep saying. There were way too many guys from the NH excuse years who NEVER developed into at least a 1 WAR player. For every Bell, Taillon, Musgrove, and Marte for you BC haters to bemoan, there are almost 6 guys for each one of them who had no business being in the major leagues, or still on a ML 40 man roster.



That's the part you don't want to see, even when it's pointed out to you. It's an overhaul from the very bottom that's been started. What BC is doing, if you haven't noticed by now, is get the organization YOUNGER at every single layer. The MLB team is going to be next, and I think that starts next season.



But for as bad as the team is, the moment a Moran, Kuhl, Brault is let go, you'll all of a sudden make them out to be irreplaceable. And you'll call it the NH excuse.



This organization was horrific from top to bottom. I'm glad someone stepped in to start cleaning up the mess, all the while trying to field a team in the majors.

0D2B2C39303C2B3D355E0 wrote: Resurrected?  Come on.  Gotta be kidding.  They barely even HAD careers before they came here. 



I made a tongue-in-cheek "bet" with fellow welcher, Dave, that Moran's gone.  We don't need any "coach."  We need guys. 



Once we get past Reynolds, Bednar, and I'll be nice and say Stallings, I'm not sure how much it really matters who stays and who goes in the grand scheme of things.



There's still time left to milk The Huntington Excuse, so I'll just kick back and watch it play out.








The long list of guys who were going to be turning 28 or older at some point in 2022 is quite an extensive list. I keep hearing that 28-30 is pretty much the peak years for most guys. The fact that so many of them have yet to really establish themselves as a solid major leaguer is staggering. And when I say solid major leaguer, I mean they should be approaching a 1.5-2 WAR level of performance. Only Bednar and Stallings were at that level, posting 2.1 and 3.0 numbers. The only other players on the teams with greater than a 1.0 WAR were Shreve 1.2, Hayes 2.4, Reynolds 6.0, Stratton 1.1. And Shreve and Stratton also are part of the 28 and older group.



It was posted a long time ago that for a team as bad as the Pirates, they also were not really a young team in terms of their roster. Of the guys who ended 2021 on the 40 man roster including the 8 guys on the 60 day IL, 29 of them are in that group that should be at the peak of their careers.



The article talked about things like a guy being lefthanded, veteran presence, that sort of thing. I don't think Crouse has been paying attention. None of those things matter to BC.



The roster turn over is going to be enormous IMHO, and will end up with most of those 28 and older somethings being replaced, along with a good number of under 28 somethings.



When a team is a losing one, I think the common denominator among fans is "let the kids play". Well, with the exception of you and Shed, you're more than happy with an 88 loss team as long as it's filled with guys with "veteran presence" (read- Not league minimum guy) .



Aside from that, I think BC is going to go for a much younger roster. But I also feel that guys who end up on the 40 man have a better than average chance at seeing the big leagues. I think a big part of the CBA that will go away is the "not starting the clock" thing so a team gets an extra season of control. I don't think he's going to be worrying about starting any clocks.



I'm sure there's somewhere that shows the average age of a teams 40 man roster. I don't like that because one or two guys can skew it. I like looking at it from my POV. The "peak" for guys is obviously individual, and can be debated. What can't be is that with the exception of some starting pitchers, MOST players have started showing they are real major league players by age 25-27, and that for most of them their peak will be over by age 30.



Either we have 29 late bloomers, or we have a pretty bad roster.



It's not the NH excuse, as you like to keep saying. There were way too many guys from the NH excuse years who NEVER developed into at least a 1 WAR player. For every Bell, Taillon, Musgrove, and Marte for you BC haters to bemoan, there are almost 6 guys for each one of them who had no business being in the major leagues, or still on a ML 40 man roster.



That's the part you don't want to see, even when it's pointed out to you. It's an overhaul from the very bottom that's been started. What BC is doing, if you haven't noticed by now, is get the organization YOUNGER at every single layer. The MLB team is going to be next, and I think that starts next season.



But for as bad as the team is, the moment a Moran, Kuhl, Brault is let go, you'll all of a sudden make them out to be irreplaceable. And you'll call it the NH excuse.



This organization was horrific from top to bottom. I'm glad someone stepped in to start cleaning up the mess, all the while trying to field a team in the majors.




Really good analysis. I’ve been reviewing BC’s rebuild snd it’s stunning how much turn over is in the system. Forget the NH excuse, there won’t be any NH players in the system pretty soon (only a slight exaggeration).

012720353C30273139520 wrote: Resurrected?  Come on.  Gotta be kidding.  They barely even HAD careers before they came here. 



I made a tongue-in-cheek "bet" with fellow welcher, Dave, that Moran's gone.  We don't need any "coach."  We need guys. 



Once we get past Reynolds, Bednar, and I'll be nice and say Stallings, I'm not sure how much it really matters who stays and who goes in the grand scheme of things.



There's still time left to milk The Huntington Excuse, so I'll just kick back and watch it play out.








The long list of guys who were going to be turning 28 or older at some point in 2022 is quite an extensive list. I keep hearing that 28-30 is pretty much the peak years for most guys. The fact that so many of them have yet to really establish themselves as a solid major leaguer is staggering. And when I say solid major leaguer, I mean they should be approaching a 1.5-2 WAR level of performance. Only Bednar and Stallings were at that level, posting 2.1 and 3.0 numbers. The only other players on the teams with greater than a 1.0 WAR were Shreve 1.2, Hayes 2.4, Reynolds 6.0, Stratton 1.1. And Shreve and Stratton also are part of the 28 and older group.



It was posted a long time ago that for a team as bad as the Pirates, they also were not really a young team in terms of their roster. Of the guys who ended 2021 on the 40 man roster including the 8 guys on the 60 day IL, 29 of them are in that group that should be at the peak of their careers.



The article talked about things like a guy being lefthanded, veteran presence, that sort of thing. I don't think Crouse has been paying attention. None of those things matter to BC.



The roster turn over is going to be enormous IMHO, and will end up with most of those 28 and older somethings being replaced, along with a good number of under 28 somethings.



When a team is a losing one, I think the common denominator among fans is "let the kids play". Well, with the exception of you and Shed, you're more than happy with an 88 loss team as long as it's filled with guys with "veteran presence" (read- Not league minimum guy) .



Aside from that, I think BC is going to go for a much younger roster. But I also feel that guys who end up on the 40 man have a better than average chance at seeing the big leagues. I think a big part of the CBA that will go away is the "not starting the clock" thing so a team gets an extra season of control. I don't think he's going to be worrying about starting any clocks.



I'm sure there's somewhere that shows the average age of a teams 40 man roster. I don't like that because one or two guys can skew it. I like looking at it from my POV. The "peak" for guys is obviously individual, and can be debated. What can't be is that with the exception of some starting pitchers, MOST players have started showing they are real major league players by age 25-27, and that for most of them their peak will be over by age 30.



Either we have 29 late bloomers, or we have a pretty bad roster.



It's not the NH excuse, as you like to keep saying. There were way too many guys from the NH excuse years who NEVER developed into at least a 1 WAR player. For every Bell, Taillon, Musgrove, and Marte for you BC haters to bemoan, there are almost 6 guys for each one of them who had no business being in the major leagues, or still on a ML 40 man roster.



That's the part you don't want to see, even when it's pointed out to you. It's an overhaul from the very bottom that's been started. What BC is doing, if you haven't noticed by now, is get the organization YOUNGER at every single layer. The MLB team is going to be next, and I think that starts next season.



But for as bad as the team is, the moment a Moran, Kuhl, Brault is let go, you'll all of a sudden make them out to be irreplaceable. And you'll call it the NH excuse.



This organization was horrific from top to bottom. I'm glad someone stepped in to start cleaning up the mess, all the while trying to field a team in the majors.






Where you are wrong?  I see it. 



The issue is- I don't agree with it.  The organization was so horrific from top to bottom that we had guys that other teams were happy to take off our hands.



I've written it before, and stand by it.  Didn't have to be this way.  I refuse to elaborate, because I've been everything from chastised to temporarily suspended when i did in the past.



But it is what it is, so here we are.  We live with the results, such as they've been.