OnlyBucs

#6 Argument Starter:

When you consider the statistics put up by other regular Pirate starters last season, it becomes harder to accept non-tendering Chad Kuhl. Kuhl wasn't good, but he was better than anyone else.



He was reportedly upset at being moved to the bullpen. Kuhl's "OPS against first time through the Order" as a starter was.753. That's mediocre but the best of any Pirate starter except Peters and Kranick. He had a 1.037 mark as a reliever. 



Kuhl also had the best ERA of any Pirate starter at PNC: 2.41. Conclusion: Bucs should've left Kuhl in the rotation. Further, the non-tender was a blatant salary dump. Kuhl could've been traded for something.

1D373C0C3B2D2D214E0 wrote: #6 Argument Starter:

When you consider the statistics put up by other regular Pirate starters last season, it becomes harder to accept non-tendering Chad Kuhl. Kuhl wasn't good, but he was better than anyone else.



He was reportedly upset at being moved to the bullpen. Kuhl's "OPS against first time through the Order" as a starter was.753. That's mediocre but the best of any Pirate starter except Peters and Kranick. He had a 1.037 mark as a reliever. 



Kuhl also had the best ERA of any Pirate starter at PNC: 2.41. Conclusion: Bucs should've left Kuhl in the rotation. Further, the non-tender was a blatant salary dump. Kuhl could've been traded for something.


are you talking about future All Star Chad Kuhl? I don't really understand why the team thinks some of the pitchers it kept will be better than Kuhl (or Brault) but BC and company definitely decided they were not worth the cost.

133534233525560 wrote: #6 Argument Starter:

When you consider the statistics put up by other regular Pirate starters last season, it becomes harder to accept non-tendering Chad Kuhl. Kuhl wasn't good, but he was better than anyone else.



He was reportedly upset at being moved to the bullpen. Kuhl's "OPS against first time through the Order" as a starter was.753. That's mediocre but the best of any Pirate starter except Peters and Kranick. He had a 1.037 mark as a reliever. 



Kuhl also had the best ERA of any Pirate starter at PNC: 2.41. Conclusion: Bucs should've left Kuhl in the rotation. Further, the non-tender was a blatant salary dump. Kuhl could've been traded for something.


are you talking about future All Star Chad Kuhl?  I don't really understand why the team thinks some of the pitchers it kept will be better than Kuhl (or Brault) but BC and company definitely decided they were not worth the cost.
Will be interested in how he does for whomever picks him up

Yes, the same guys that all year people say have no business being in the majors, are AAA players, etc. etc. suddenly become "salary dumps" that were "worth something".



There is no need to keep players around who have had so many years to produce but never did. I pointed out the long list of guys that were in the middle of what should be the primes of their careers and had shown they weren't getting any better, and their "prime" wasn't very good.



An incredible chunk of that was sent packing, as I predicted.



And the team will be better for it.

I would have to think they attempted to trade guys like Kuhl, or Brault , but there were no takers. Even if they received a low minor league player that would have been better than just designating them for assignment.

I agree with Surg (except that I'm not sure about his conclusion) and fj.



We dont know whether the team will be "better for it." Too many guys are replaced with too many of the same kind of guys. I'll say that we won't be any worse for it.



As fj says, I would think that they tried to make trades and didn't get offers.

Kuhl wasn't much as a starter and was even worse as a reliever. He was due for a raise in 2022 via arbitration and if he had any kind of a good season--as unlikely as that seems--he could leave as a FA in 2023. Was it a salary dump? Yes, in the sense that they didn't want to give more money to a player of little value. I can't blame them for that. We usually think of a salary dump as getting rid of a useful player just to save money. But Kuhl was no better than any of the other pitchers who come and go during the season. I don't think he'll be missed.

664C47774056565A350 wrote: #6 Argument Starter:

When you consider the statistics put up by other regular Pirate starters last season, it becomes harder to accept non-tendering Chad Kuhl. Kuhl wasn't good, but he was better than anyone else.



He was reportedly upset at being moved to the bullpen. Kuhl's "OPS against first time through the Order" as a starter was.753. That's mediocre but the best of any Pirate starter except Peters and Kranick. He had a 1.037 mark as a reliever. 



Kuhl also had the best ERA of any Pirate starter at PNC: 2.41. Conclusion: Bucs should've left Kuhl in the rotation. Further, the non-tender was a blatant salary dump. Kuhl could've been traded for something.


Probably somewhat true. If the Pirates did not think they wanted to use him as a full time starter, and not someone with a long term future with the team, they are better off moving on instead of just keeping him around. MLB GMs dont generally treat vets like crap if they want to avoid pissing off agents.



Also, they would be paying Kuhl salary arbitration based off being a starter, not a reliever, and would need to argue that Kuhl is not a starter anymore, further damaging the relationship. Just not worth it for a guy they can replace cheaply if they wanted.

2E2223787178707D7A657F480 wrote: I would have to think they attempted to trade guys like Kuhl, or Brault , but there were no takers. Even if they received a low minor league player that would have been better than just designating them for assignment.


they 100% tried to trade them.

1A3D34343D2E2D3D1A2D3B580 wrote: I would have to think they attempted to trade guys like Kuhl, or Brault , but there were no takers. Even if they received a low minor league player that would have been better than just designating them for assignment.


they 100% tried to trade them.
If I had a chance to talk to Ben Cherington, I would ask him about Kuhl and Brault's trade discussions. I love Brault, but I can understand his non-tender because his health is suspect for the upcoming season, and it's better to let the younger pitchers have at it.