I still stick to the mantra that when a player is hitting no one cares too much about their defense. Jaso and Osuna were terrible out there when they were hitting under/around .200. They are still bad, but are now hitting. Not too much mentioned anymore about them or McCutchen. Funny, when Frazier was slumping people brought up his defense.
I never seen the outfield so bad on defense like this year. Don't guys shag fly balls in batting practice anymore?
McCutchen's drop off
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
McCutchen's drop off
This is probably the point where we most disagree, Dog. I think defense is really important - a run saved is a run earned (I think that's what Franklin said). If you want to win, you need good defense. I agree that the comments on boards drop off when someone is hitting well, but to my mind that doesn't offset the defense. Part of the reason is that defense cannot be quantified in any meaningful way. If someone muffs a play and five more runs score later, or the pitcher has to throw nine extra pitches and leave the game earlier as a result, there's no way to account for that. So yes, the comments on the boards go away when a poor defender is hitting well, but you aren't there to hear what I say to my TV.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
McCutchen's drop off
Its easier to catch a ball than hit a ball. You have to agree to that. The worst defenders are still making the plays over 90% of the time.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
McCutchen's drop off
343F373B3E3F246167102931383F3F7E333F500 wrote: Its easier to catch a ball than hit a ball. You have to agree to that. The worst defenders are still making the plays over 90% of the time.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
McCutchen's drop off
45445F4E58181F2B0 wrote: Its easier to catch a ball than hit a ball. You have to agree to that. The worst defenders are still making the plays over 90% of the time.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
McCutchen's drop off
5A51595550514A0F097E475F565151105D513E0 wrote: Its easier to catch a ball than hit a ball. You have to agree to that. The worst defenders are still making the plays over 90% of the time.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
Wow he was our best hitter in those years? How much have you had to drink today?
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
Wow he was our best hitter in those years? How much have you had to drink today?
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
McCutchen's drop off
50514A5B4D0D0A3E0 wrote: Its easier to catch a ball than hit a ball. You have to agree to that. The worst defenders are still making the plays over 90% of the time.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
Wow he was our best hitter in those years? How much have you had to drink today?
Sorry, I meant at his position.
He could never field. He is in the minors because of his hitting, not fielding.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
Wow he was our best hitter in those years? How much have you had to drink today?
Sorry, I meant at his position.
He could never field. He is in the minors because of his hitting, not fielding.
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Bobster21
McCutchen's drop off
717A727E7B7A612422556C747D7A7A3B767A150 wrote: Its easier to catch a ball than hit a ball. You have to agree to that. The worst defenders are still making the plays over 90% of the time.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
Wow he was our best hitter in those years? How much have you had to drink today?
Sorry, I meant at his position.
He could never field. He is in the minors because of his hitting, not fielding.
That's not true. Pedro had a decent year batting for the Orioles last year. 22 HRs in 337 ABs. .249/.322/.504. But they didn't want him to be strictly a DH. They started him at 3B for 6 games last year but he made 4 errors. His contract was up this year and despite the offense he gave them in 2016, they opted not to re-sign him because he can't play defense. When no one else signed him, the Orioles offered a AAA contract with the provision that Pedro will have to become competent in the OF before being recalled. But he has not done well in the OF and made 3 errors in 17 games at 1B. He is hitting for power but not average, but that's always been his MO. And, as usual, he's streaky. But despite having hot streaks in May and June he was not recalled. He's in the minors because of his fielding.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
Wow he was our best hitter in those years? How much have you had to drink today?
Sorry, I meant at his position.
He could never field. He is in the minors because of his hitting, not fielding.
That's not true. Pedro had a decent year batting for the Orioles last year. 22 HRs in 337 ABs. .249/.322/.504. But they didn't want him to be strictly a DH. They started him at 3B for 6 games last year but he made 4 errors. His contract was up this year and despite the offense he gave them in 2016, they opted not to re-sign him because he can't play defense. When no one else signed him, the Orioles offered a AAA contract with the provision that Pedro will have to become competent in the OF before being recalled. But he has not done well in the OF and made 3 errors in 17 games at 1B. He is hitting for power but not average, but that's always been his MO. And, as usual, he's streaky. But despite having hot streaks in May and June he was not recalled. He's in the minors because of his fielding.
McCutchen's drop off
183538292E3F28686B5A0 wrote: Its easier to catch a ball than hit a ball. You have to agree to that. The worst defenders are still making the plays over 90% of the time.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
Wow he was our best hitter in those years? How much have you had to drink today?
Sorry, I meant at his position.
He could never field. He is in the minors because of his hitting, not fielding.
That's not true. Pedro had a decent year batting for the Orioles last year. 22 HRs in 337 ABs. .249/.322/.504. But they didn't want him to be strictly a DH. They started him at 3B for 6 games last year but he made 4 errors. His contract was up this year and despite the offense he gave them in 2016, they opted not to re-sign him because he can't play defense. When no one else signed him, the Orioles offered a AAA contract with the provision that Pedro will have to become competent in the OF before being recalled. But he has not done well in the OF and made 3 errors in 17 games at 1B. He is hitting for power but not average, but that's always been his MO. And, as usual, he's streaky. But despite having hot streaks in May and June he was not recalled. He's in the minors because of his fielding.
Remember...this is a team that employs Mark Trumbo and Chris Davis, both regular gold glove candidates. ::)
This is also a team that employs Adam Jones in center field who IS a legit GG candidate, and can cover more ground than your average center fielder, compensating for weaker corner outfielders.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
Wow he was our best hitter in those years? How much have you had to drink today?
Sorry, I meant at his position.
He could never field. He is in the minors because of his hitting, not fielding.
That's not true. Pedro had a decent year batting for the Orioles last year. 22 HRs in 337 ABs. .249/.322/.504. But they didn't want him to be strictly a DH. They started him at 3B for 6 games last year but he made 4 errors. His contract was up this year and despite the offense he gave them in 2016, they opted not to re-sign him because he can't play defense. When no one else signed him, the Orioles offered a AAA contract with the provision that Pedro will have to become competent in the OF before being recalled. But he has not done well in the OF and made 3 errors in 17 games at 1B. He is hitting for power but not average, but that's always been his MO. And, as usual, he's streaky. But despite having hot streaks in May and June he was not recalled. He's in the minors because of his fielding.
Remember...this is a team that employs Mark Trumbo and Chris Davis, both regular gold glove candidates. ::)
This is also a team that employs Adam Jones in center field who IS a legit GG candidate, and can cover more ground than your average center fielder, compensating for weaker corner outfielders.
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Bobster21
McCutchen's drop off
070F0C3B2D082F204E0 wrote: Its easier to catch a ball than hit a ball. You have to agree to that. The worst defenders are still making the plays over 90% of the time.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
Wow he was our best hitter in those years? How much have you had to drink today?
Sorry, I meant at his position.
He could never field. He is in the minors because of his hitting, not fielding.
That's not true. Pedro had a decent year batting for the Orioles last year. 22 HRs in 337 ABs. .249/.322/.504. But they didn't want him to be strictly a DH. They started him at 3B for 6 games last year but he made 4 errors. His contract was up this year and despite the offense he gave them in 2016, they opted not to re-sign him because he can't play defense. When no one else signed him, the Orioles offered a AAA contract with the provision that Pedro will have to become competent in the OF before being recalled. But he has not done well in the OF and made 3 errors in 17 games at 1B. He is hitting for power but not average, but that's always been his MO. And, as usual, he's streaky. But despite having hot streaks in May and June he was not recalled. He's in the minors because of his fielding.
Remember...this is a team that employs Mark Trumbo and Chris Davis, both regular gold glove candidates. ::)
This is also a team that employs Adam Jones in center field who IS a legit GG candidate, and can cover more ground than your average center fielder, compensating for weaker corner outfielders.
Chris Davis is actually a fairly good defensive 1Bman. Trumbo is poor defensively and needs to DH, which is why there is no spot for Pedro unless he can play somewhere in the field.
I am not saying that defense isn't important, but the player with the bat will start and play more than the player with the glove. There are more defensive replacements late in the game than offensive replacements, right?
As long as a player hits, people don't care. There is a balance for sure. A perfect example is that right now on the current team. I still think Osuna stinks out there. Jaso has got better. Polanco has always been bad. Now, Frazier is struggling. I would play Jaso over Frazier at this point, knowing Frazier is the better fielder.
Pedro anyone
Exactly, my point. Pedro lead the league in errors in 2012, 2013, 2014. He was probably the worst 1B ever in 2015 (worst I have ever seen) and the team won 98 games and made the playoffs three years in a row. He was the team's best overall hitter those years and played more than the guys who could actually field his position.
Wow he was our best hitter in those years? How much have you had to drink today?
Sorry, I meant at his position.
He could never field. He is in the minors because of his hitting, not fielding.
That's not true. Pedro had a decent year batting for the Orioles last year. 22 HRs in 337 ABs. .249/.322/.504. But they didn't want him to be strictly a DH. They started him at 3B for 6 games last year but he made 4 errors. His contract was up this year and despite the offense he gave them in 2016, they opted not to re-sign him because he can't play defense. When no one else signed him, the Orioles offered a AAA contract with the provision that Pedro will have to become competent in the OF before being recalled. But he has not done well in the OF and made 3 errors in 17 games at 1B. He is hitting for power but not average, but that's always been his MO. And, as usual, he's streaky. But despite having hot streaks in May and June he was not recalled. He's in the minors because of his fielding.
Remember...this is a team that employs Mark Trumbo and Chris Davis, both regular gold glove candidates. ::)
This is also a team that employs Adam Jones in center field who IS a legit GG candidate, and can cover more ground than your average center fielder, compensating for weaker corner outfielders.
Chris Davis is actually a fairly good defensive 1Bman. Trumbo is poor defensively and needs to DH, which is why there is no spot for Pedro unless he can play somewhere in the field.