OnlyBucs

0D1A0C3B2D2D214E0 wrote: I don't think there's a 3Bman worth targeting that will be on the market.  It's a spot I'd like to add to on the roster though.  It could also be improved by adding a solid 2Bman so Harrison could move over more to rest Freese.



Depending on injuries, a 4th OFer could add to the team.

Kendrick or Nava from Phils as 4th OFer - though I'm not sure either adds a lot over Frazier/Jaso.



I would add to the bullpen.  Brad Brach from the O's would be a great addition to the late inning guys in the pen.  Controlled through '18 as well, so he'd cost more but would be around to help next year with Nicasio and Watson leaving.



Neshek from the Phils has been discussed.  He'll be in high demand.  Kela from Texas could be a Rivero-like get, but Texas will want prospects.  Maybe Blake Parker from the Angels?  His success is new this year.  If scouting found a change that could explain the success, he'd be worth going after.  Ditto for Kirby Yates of SD.


I would love to get Brach too, however, Baltimore could be trading Britton, so ...



I don't have faith in this FO making a good impact deal if we are still in this thing. I think we need a fourth starter. Sorry, Kuhl isn't a four. He has close to a 5 ERA. Teams will go out and fill needs for the stretch run with solid gets. Then, there is us trying to get the next reclamation project and hope he works out.

406566667358656D6F780A0 wrote:

Strongly disagree. We may not compete with LA, NY, or Chicago, but we certainly have the financial where with all to support an average ML Payroll which is roughly 150M now. Our revenue is middle of the pack yet our payroll is in the bottom 5. In addition you fail to recognize the huge increase in value of the franchise. Nutting has netted a 1 Billion increase in value since he became majority owner. That's right 1 BILLION with a B. He gains 80 million a year on franchise value alone. He could borrow on his equity and put 80 million towards payroll and see that be replaced the following year. We can certainly afford 2 or 3 market value contracts. He just won't do it!!
That's the issue. Nutting apologists try to discredit calls to increase payroll by mischaracterizing that as a call to compete with the biggest spenders in MLB. No one is asking for that! All anyone wants is a modest middle of the road payroll instead of the customary bottom 5 or 6 ranking regardless of revenue.

7F747C7075746F2A2C5B627A7374743578741B0 wrote: The Orioles are a team to watch.  They have some young starting pitching that is kind of struggling.  They have a few bullpen arms that can be dealt.  But they don't want to sell the whole team (no Jones, Machado, Givins).  Can Searage help some of those pitchers (Tillman, Bundy, Gausman, Asher)?



Someone lives near/in Baltimore and probably knows more (is it Bobster?).  They could trade pieces to help teams down the stretch and in the future.


How about lets not subject ourselves to getting more reclamation projects that help instead of capable arms that don't been to be redone. I can't stand getting nothing but rehab guys.

1000013620202C430 wrote: I don't think there's a 3Bman worth targeting that will be on the market.  It's a spot I'd like to add to on the roster though.  It could also be improved by adding a solid 2Bman so Harrison could move over more to rest Freese.



Depending on injuries, a 4th OFer could add to the team.

Kendrick or Nava from Phils as 4th OFer - though I'm not sure either adds a lot over Frazier/Jaso.



I would add to the bullpen.  Brad Brach from the O's would be a great addition to the late inning guys in the pen.  Controlled through '18 as well, so he'd cost more but would be around to help next year with Nicasio and Watson leaving.



Neshek from the Phils has been discussed.  He'll be in high demand.  Kela from Texas could be a Rivero-like get, but Texas will want prospects.  Maybe Blake Parker from the Angels?  His success is new this year.  If scouting found a change that could explain the success, he'd be worth going after.  Ditto for Kirby Yates of SD.


I would love to get Brach too, however, Baltimore could be trading Britton, so ...



I don't have faith in this FO making a good impact deal if we are still in this thing.  I think we need a fourth starter.  Sorry, Kuhl isn't a four.  He has close to a 5 ERA.  Teams will go out and fill needs for the stretch run with solid gets.  Then, there is us trying to get the next reclamation project and hope he works out.


You didn't like the moves Huntington has made at the deadline in the past?

I've been advocating getting another pitcher all off-season and the season so far, but I'm not so sure how much use it is to get one at the deadline. They have what, nine starts? What's that worth compared to getting a position player or bullpen?

0F222F3E39283F7F7C4D0 wrote:

Strongly disagree. We may not compete with LA, NY, or Chicago, but we certainly have the financial where with all to support an average ML Payroll which is roughly 150M now. Our revenue is middle of the pack yet our payroll is in the bottom 5. In addition you fail to recognize the huge increase in value of the franchise. Nutting has netted a 1 Billion increase in value since he became majority owner. That's right 1 BILLION with a B. He gains 80 million a year on franchise value alone. He could borrow on his equity and put 80 million towards payroll and see that be replaced the following year. We can certainly afford 2 or 3 market value contracts. He just won't do it!!
That's the issue. Nutting apologists try to discredit calls to increase payroll by mischaracterizing that as a call to compete with the biggest spenders in MLB. No one is asking for that! All anyone wants is a modest middle of the road payroll instead of the customary bottom 5 or 6 ranking regardless of revenue.


I'm not sure I've read a post by a person here that I'd call a Nutting apologist. I don't think any of us like how tight-fisted he runs the club we love. I don't think any of us buy into the hypocritical press statements we hear from the Nutting camp either. I think everyone here would love to see him sell the Pirates to someone who would loosen the purse strings and let us really compete.



I do think there are posters who see Nutting as the reality and perhaps apologize for NH's moves based on what we see as that reality. That's where this thread has headed -- Tintin (mostly) making a trade argument that resulted in financial flexibility, which he defines broadly (as do I). And others saying that said flexibility only directly resulted in certain actions by our GM -- how any of us know what financial flexibility actually meant to NH, I haven't a clue.



And then in the end it melts completely down to the Nutting is cheap argument. I've never read one poster justifying Nutting and apologizing for his cheapness. The amount of Nutting angst seemed to differ with posters. There are NH apologists -- and I think he does a really good job, as Tintin put it, "with one hand tied behind his back" -- but there are absolutely zero Nutting apologists on this board by my count.

6E4F5A536B52495A4F5E3B0 wrote:

Strongly disagree. We may not compete with LA, NY, or Chicago, but we certainly have the financial where with all to support an average ML Payroll which is roughly 150M now. Our revenue is middle of the pack yet our payroll is in the bottom 5. In addition you fail to recognize the huge increase in value of the franchise. Nutting has netted a 1 Billion increase in value since he became majority owner. That's right 1 BILLION with a B. He gains 80 million a year on franchise value alone. He could borrow on his equity and put 80 million towards payroll and see that be replaced the following year. We can certainly afford 2 or 3 market value contracts. He just won't do it!!
That's the issue. Nutting apologists try to discredit calls to increase payroll by mischaracterizing that as a call to compete with the biggest spenders in MLB. No one is asking for that! All anyone wants is a modest middle of the road payroll instead of the customary bottom 5 or 6 ranking regardless of revenue.


I'm not sure I've read a post by a person here that I'd call a Nutting apologist. I don't think any of us like how tight-fisted he runs the club we love. I don't think any of us buy into the hypocritical press statements we hear from the Nutting camp either. I think everyone here would love to see him sell the Pirates to someone who would loosen the purse strings and let us really compete.



I do think there are posters who see Nutting as the reality and perhaps apologize for NH's moves based on what we see as that reality. That's where this thread has headed -- Tintin (mostly) making a trade argument that resulted in financial flexibility, which he defines broadly (as do I). And others saying that said flexibility only directly resulted in certain actions by our GM -- how any of us know what financial flexibility actually meant to NH, I haven't a clue.



And then in the end it melts completely down to the Nutting is cheap argument. I've never read one poster justifying Nutting and apologizing for his cheapness. The amount of Nutting angst seemed to differ with posters. There are NH apologists -- and I think he does a really good job, as Tintin put it, "with one hand tied behind his back" -- but there are absolutely zero Nutting apologists on this board by my count. 


yeah, I agree there are no apologists. There are some that believe that NH does the best he can under the circumstances although I believe part of his job is to ask for more resources. I really think if NH is worth is salt he will not stick it out with the Pirates if more resources are not forthcoming.

The Pirates along with the Cubs, Indians, Rockies and Red Sox are on Yu Darvish's no-trade clause list. Who knows if he would exercise that option considering he is a free agent at season's end.

78737B777273682D2B5C657D747373327F731C0 wrote: I don't think there's a 3Bman worth targeting that will be on the market.  It's a spot I'd like to add to on the roster though.  It could also be improved by adding a solid 2Bman so Harrison could move over more to rest Freese.



Depending on injuries, a 4th OFer could add to the team.

Kendrick or Nava from Phils as 4th OFer - though I'm not sure either adds a lot over Frazier/Jaso.



I would add to the bullpen.  Brad Brach from the O's would be a great addition to the late inning guys in the pen.  Controlled through '18 as well, so he'd cost more but would be around to help next year with Nicasio and Watson leaving.



Neshek from the Phils has been discussed.  He'll be in high demand.  Kela from Texas could be a Rivero-like get, but Texas will want prospects.  Maybe Blake Parker from the Angels?  His success is new this year.  If scouting found a change that could explain the success, he'd be worth going after.  Ditto for Kirby Yates of SD.


I would love to get Brach too, however, Baltimore could be trading Britton, so ...



I don't have faith in this FO making a good impact deal if we are still in this thing.  I think we need a fourth starter.  Sorry, Kuhl isn't a four.  He has close to a 5 ERA.  Teams will go out and fill needs for the stretch run with solid gets.  Then, there is us trying to get the next reclamation project and hope he works out.


You didn't like the moves Huntington has made at the deadline in the past? 


I prefer to bring in impact players that help ... not have to hope reclamation projects work out.  If you are going to go for it and not trade Cutch, then you better go for it and not subject bringing in reclamation projects - otherwise, you lost a great chance to get a very good return on Cutch and will regret not moving him. It's counter productive.

0A2B3E370F362D3E2B3A5F0 wrote:

Strongly disagree. We may not compete with LA, NY, or Chicago, but we certainly have the financial where with all to support an average ML Payroll which is roughly 150M now. Our revenue is middle of the pack yet our payroll is in the bottom 5. In addition you fail to recognize the huge increase in value of the franchise. Nutting has netted a 1 Billion increase in value since he became majority owner. That's right 1 BILLION with a B. He gains 80 million a year on franchise value alone. He could borrow on his equity and put 80 million towards payroll and see that be replaced the following year. We can certainly afford 2 or 3 market value contracts. He just won't do it!!
That's the issue. Nutting apologists try to discredit calls to increase payroll by mischaracterizing that as a call to compete with the biggest spenders in MLB. No one is asking for that! All anyone wants is a modest middle of the road payroll instead of the customary bottom 5 or 6 ranking regardless of revenue.


I'm not sure I've read a post by a person here that I'd call a Nutting apologist. I don't think any of us like how tight-fisted he runs the club we love. I don't think any of us buy into the hypocritical press statements we hear from the Nutting camp either. I think everyone here would love to see him sell the Pirates to someone who would loosen the purse strings and let us really compete.



I do think there are posters who see Nutting as the reality and perhaps apologize for NH's moves based on what we see as that reality. That's where this thread has headed -- Tintin (mostly) making a trade argument that resulted in financial flexibility, which he defines broadly (as do I). And others saying that said flexibility only directly resulted in certain actions by our GM -- how any of us know what financial flexibility actually meant to NH, I haven't a clue.



And then in the end it melts completely down to the Nutting is cheap argument. I've never read one poster justifying Nutting and apologizing for his cheapness. The amount of Nutting angst seemed to differ with posters. There are NH apologists -- and I think he does a really good job, as Tintin put it, "with one hand tied behind his back" -- but there are absolutely zero Nutting apologists on this board by my count. 


And that's my point. Most of the people who don't like the Liriano trade don't like it from a baseball philosophy standpoint. I like it because it got rid of a cancer and saved 20 million dollars, which allowed us to get better players under contract. So we lost a bunch of prospect who likely won't pan out.



As for Nutting, I wish he would spend more money, but guess what? He's not going to. He's simply isn't going to.