Shelton's not trying to lose. MLB is not the NFL where you salivate over the #1 draft pick because he will instantly transform your team.
It's not any one pick. It's the bonus pools. That's the tail that's wagging the dog.
Official Game Thread - 6/1 - Bucs @ Royals
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
Official Game Thread - 6/1 - Bucs @ Royals
704E41414B4245464B4B6F425548270 wrote: I don't think he's intentionally losing games. This isn't a movie. And his players would mutiny if that were the case in any event. [highlight]He's just not managing with winning games being the primary goal.[/highlight] I'm sure the front office and he are on board with whatever detailed plan they have to evaluate whomever they plan on keeping from this tire fire (if anyone, ultimately), or maximizing the trade value of anyone they want to ship out. The rest of the guys are just AAAA placeholders and dead-enders.
There are only 30 of these jobs in the world, and Shelton didn't get to be manager by being a complete moron. If he's not the right fit in a couple of years when the Pirates are good again (like Russell wasn't), that's a different discussion. But right now, he's sticking with the program. Winning games is not only not the top priority, it's actually counterproductive to next year's draft.
Oh, and it'll be amazing how well Shelton can manage once he has better players.
My writing " BC . . . has instructed him to make poor decisions" was not the best way to express what I was trying to say, but what you wrote (that I've highlighted) is more to the point I was trying to make. Winning isn't the priority, evaluating players is. If that means losing, I think BC's okay with that if the end result is seeing who's worth keeping, along with securing a higher draft pick. "Not trying to win" isn't the same as "trying to lose" but, for right now, losing isn't a problem.
There are only 30 of these jobs in the world, and Shelton didn't get to be manager by being a complete moron. If he's not the right fit in a couple of years when the Pirates are good again (like Russell wasn't), that's a different discussion. But right now, he's sticking with the program. Winning games is not only not the top priority, it's actually counterproductive to next year's draft.
Oh, and it'll be amazing how well Shelton can manage once he has better players.
My writing " BC . . . has instructed him to make poor decisions" was not the best way to express what I was trying to say, but what you wrote (that I've highlighted) is more to the point I was trying to make. Winning isn't the priority, evaluating players is. If that means losing, I think BC's okay with that if the end result is seeing who's worth keeping, along with securing a higher draft pick. "Not trying to win" isn't the same as "trying to lose" but, for right now, losing isn't a problem.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 6/1 - Bucs @ Royals
152B24242E2720232E2E0A27302D420 wrote: I don't think he's intentionally losing games. This isn't a movie. And his players would mutiny if that were the case in any event. He's just not managing with winning games being the primary goal. I'm sure the front office and he are on board with whatever detailed plan they have to evaluate whomever they plan on keeping from this tire fire (if anyone, ultimately), or maximizing the trade value of anyone they want to ship out. The rest of the guys are just AAAA placeholders and dead-enders.
There are only 30 of these jobs in the world, and Shelton didn't get to be manager by being a complete moron. If he's not the right fit in a couple of years when the Pirates are good again (like Russell wasn't), that's a different discussion. But right now, he's sticking with the program. Winning games is not only not the top priority, it's actually counterproductive to next year's draft.
Oh, and it'll be amazing how well Shelton can manage once he has better players.
Next time I read where he says, "we didn't execute a...." I'll just add another chalk mark.
There are only 30 of these jobs in the world, and Shelton didn't get to be manager by being a complete moron. If he's not the right fit in a couple of years when the Pirates are good again (like Russell wasn't), that's a different discussion. But right now, he's sticking with the program. Winning games is not only not the top priority, it's actually counterproductive to next year's draft.
Oh, and it'll be amazing how well Shelton can manage once he has better players.
Next time I read where he says, "we didn't execute a...." I'll just add another chalk mark.
-
Bobster21
Official Game Thread - 6/1 - Bucs @ Royals
192C3B3B30093B3B30373B5E0 wrote: I don't think he's intentionally losing games. This isn't a movie. And his players would mutiny if that were the case in any event. He's just not managing with winning games being the primary goal. I'm sure the front office and he are on board with whatever detailed plan they have to evaluate whomever they plan on keeping from this tire fire (if anyone, ultimately), or maximizing the trade value of anyone they want to ship out. The rest of the guys are just AAAA placeholders and dead-enders.
There are only 30 of these jobs in the world, and Shelton didn't get to be manager by being a complete moron. If he's not the right fit in a couple of years when the Pirates are good again (like Russell wasn't), that's a different discussion. But right now, he's sticking with the program. Winning games is not only not the top priority, it's actually counterproductive to next year's draft.
Oh, and it'll be amazing how well Shelton can manage once he has better players.
Next time I read where he says, "we didn't execute a...." I'll just add another chalk mark.
It reminds me of the quote by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers first HC John McKay in 1977 after his team lost their initial 26 games. When asked by reporters about the Bucs' execution, he replied "I'm in favor of it!"
There are only 30 of these jobs in the world, and Shelton didn't get to be manager by being a complete moron. If he's not the right fit in a couple of years when the Pirates are good again (like Russell wasn't), that's a different discussion. But right now, he's sticking with the program. Winning games is not only not the top priority, it's actually counterproductive to next year's draft.
Oh, and it'll be amazing how well Shelton can manage once he has better players.
Next time I read where he says, "we didn't execute a...." I'll just add another chalk mark.
It reminds me of the quote by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers first HC John McKay in 1977 after his team lost their initial 26 games. When asked by reporters about the Bucs' execution, he replied "I'm in favor of it!"
-
WiffleballHero
Official Game Thread - 6/1 - Bucs @ Royals
114751454A50404B465163444E424A4F0D40230 wrote:
My writing " BC . . . has instructed him to make poor decisions" was not the best way to express what I was trying to say, but what you wrote (that I've highlighted) is more to the point I was trying to make. Winning isn't the priority, evaluating players is. If that means losing, I think BC's okay with that if the end result is seeing who's worth keeping, along with securing a higher draft pick. "Not trying to win" isn't the same as "trying to lose" but, for right now, losing isn't a problem.
Yeah, that's why I'm not all that worked up about players like Crowe giving up a grand slam like he did last night. It was a big spot in the game and Crowe has to learn how to wriggle off the hook he got himself into. He served up a middle-middle pitch that was hit over I-70. The hope is he will learn from that kind of thing, and yes that does sound like lipstick on a pig. But, again, this is the year to take your lumps IF -- big IF -- it leads to better things in the future (like the learning curve going up). This just doesn't feel like the Littlefield days when they were a nonstop spinning wheel of suck.
I'm not saying that no Pirate fan should be miserable right now because watching this every night is torture. I'm just saying there's a bigger picture here, other than focusing solely on Shelton as if he's worse than Morris Buttermaker.
My writing " BC . . . has instructed him to make poor decisions" was not the best way to express what I was trying to say, but what you wrote (that I've highlighted) is more to the point I was trying to make. Winning isn't the priority, evaluating players is. If that means losing, I think BC's okay with that if the end result is seeing who's worth keeping, along with securing a higher draft pick. "Not trying to win" isn't the same as "trying to lose" but, for right now, losing isn't a problem.
Yeah, that's why I'm not all that worked up about players like Crowe giving up a grand slam like he did last night. It was a big spot in the game and Crowe has to learn how to wriggle off the hook he got himself into. He served up a middle-middle pitch that was hit over I-70. The hope is he will learn from that kind of thing, and yes that does sound like lipstick on a pig. But, again, this is the year to take your lumps IF -- big IF -- it leads to better things in the future (like the learning curve going up). This just doesn't feel like the Littlefield days when they were a nonstop spinning wheel of suck.
I'm not saying that no Pirate fan should be miserable right now because watching this every night is torture. I'm just saying there's a bigger picture here, other than focusing solely on Shelton as if he's worse than Morris Buttermaker.
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Official Game Thread - 6/1 - Bucs @ Royals
7E535E4F48594E0E0D3C0 wrote: I don't think he's intentionally losing games. This isn't a movie. And his players would mutiny if that were the case in any event. He's just not managing with winning games being the primary goal. I'm sure the front office and he are on board with whatever detailed plan they have to evaluate whomever they plan on keeping from this tire fire (if anyone, ultimately), or maximizing the trade value of anyone they want to ship out. The rest of the guys are just AAAA placeholders and dead-enders.
There are only 30 of these jobs in the world, and Shelton didn't get to be manager by being a complete moron. If he's not the right fit in a couple of years when the Pirates are good again (like Russell wasn't), that's a different discussion. But right now, he's sticking with the program. Winning games is not only not the top priority, it's actually counterproductive to next year's draft.
Oh, and it'll be amazing how well Shelton can manage once he has better players.
Next time I read where he says, "we didn't execute a...." I'll just add another chalk mark.
It reminds me of the quote by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers first HC John McKay in 1977 after his team lost their initial 26 games. When asked by reporters about the Bucs' execution, he replied "I'm in favor of it!"
I remember that quote like it was yesterday. A classic, the greatest quote in sports!
There are only 30 of these jobs in the world, and Shelton didn't get to be manager by being a complete moron. If he's not the right fit in a couple of years when the Pirates are good again (like Russell wasn't), that's a different discussion. But right now, he's sticking with the program. Winning games is not only not the top priority, it's actually counterproductive to next year's draft.
Oh, and it'll be amazing how well Shelton can manage once he has better players.
Next time I read where he says, "we didn't execute a...." I'll just add another chalk mark.
It reminds me of the quote by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers first HC John McKay in 1977 after his team lost their initial 26 games. When asked by reporters about the Bucs' execution, he replied "I'm in favor of it!"
I remember that quote like it was yesterday. A classic, the greatest quote in sports!
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 6/1 - Bucs @ Royals
Since yinz guys seem to be in another nostalgic mood, I'll bring up another from right around that era:
Ben Cherington, Derek Shelton, most of your coaches, if not all, and just about every player on the team- "Part of my job is to help you find your life's work."
((((
Ben Cherington, Derek Shelton, most of your coaches, if not all, and just about every player on the team- "Part of my job is to help you find your life's work."
((((Official Game Thread - 6/1 - Bucs @ Royals
152037373C0537373C3B37520 wrote: Since yinz guys seem to be in another nostalgic mood
Says the guy that says nothing good has happened since 1979. Funny, I vehemently agree and disagree at the same time. BTW did you send me your email per my request?
Says the guy that says nothing good has happened since 1979. Funny, I vehemently agree and disagree at the same time. BTW did you send me your email per my request?
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 6/1 - Bucs @ Royals
Apparently not. Never saw the request.
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
Official Game Thread - 6/1 - Bucs @ Royals
635D52525851565558587C51465B340 wrote:
My writing " BC . . . has instructed him to make poor decisions" was not the best way to express what I was trying to say, but what you wrote (that I've highlighted) is more to the point I was trying to make. Winning isn't the priority, evaluating players is. If that means losing, I think BC's okay with that if the end result is seeing who's worth keeping, along with securing a higher draft pick. "Not trying to win" isn't the same as "trying to lose" but, for right now, losing isn't a problem.
Yeah, that's why I'm not all that worked up about players like Crowe giving up a grand slam like he did last night. It was a big spot in the game and Crowe has to learn how to wriggle off the hook he got himself into. He served up a middle-middle pitch that was hit over I-70. The hope is he will learn from that kind of thing, and yes that does sound like lipstick on a pig. But, again, this is the year to take your lumps IF -- big IF -- it leads to better things in the future (like the learning curve going up). This just doesn't feel like the Littlefield days when they were a nonstop spinning wheel of suck.
I'm not saying that no Pirate fan should be miserable right now because watching this every night is torture. I'm just saying there's a bigger picture here, other than focusing solely on Shelton as if he's worse than Morris Buttermaker.
Good points. With lots of players getting opportunities, I think the brass is looking for guys who show improvement. Some of them won't, or can't. Those are the guys we've already seen sent elsewhere, or soon will be. Guys like Keller, Tom, Difo, Newman, Tucker, and some others need to get better as the season progresses, otherwise they'll all be replaced as well. If these guys can't pass the audition here, they'll likely be out of baseball in a year or two.
My writing " BC . . . has instructed him to make poor decisions" was not the best way to express what I was trying to say, but what you wrote (that I've highlighted) is more to the point I was trying to make. Winning isn't the priority, evaluating players is. If that means losing, I think BC's okay with that if the end result is seeing who's worth keeping, along with securing a higher draft pick. "Not trying to win" isn't the same as "trying to lose" but, for right now, losing isn't a problem.
Yeah, that's why I'm not all that worked up about players like Crowe giving up a grand slam like he did last night. It was a big spot in the game and Crowe has to learn how to wriggle off the hook he got himself into. He served up a middle-middle pitch that was hit over I-70. The hope is he will learn from that kind of thing, and yes that does sound like lipstick on a pig. But, again, this is the year to take your lumps IF -- big IF -- it leads to better things in the future (like the learning curve going up). This just doesn't feel like the Littlefield days when they were a nonstop spinning wheel of suck.
I'm not saying that no Pirate fan should be miserable right now because watching this every night is torture. I'm just saying there's a bigger picture here, other than focusing solely on Shelton as if he's worse than Morris Buttermaker.
Good points. With lots of players getting opportunities, I think the brass is looking for guys who show improvement. Some of them won't, or can't. Those are the guys we've already seen sent elsewhere, or soon will be. Guys like Keller, Tom, Difo, Newman, Tucker, and some others need to get better as the season progresses, otherwise they'll all be replaced as well. If these guys can't pass the audition here, they'll likely be out of baseball in a year or two.