((Guess you will be saying the same thing when Morton gets his start
And when Austin Meadows hit one out
But don't forget we got Chris Archer
The Departed
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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WildwoodDave
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The Departed
142A2F27342C2C2707223526430 wrote: What a bite in the baseballs. Thanks, Neal. ((
Guess you will be saying the same thing when Morton gets his start
And when Austin Meadows hit one out
But don't forget we got Chris Archer
((Guess you will be saying the same thing when Morton gets his start
And when Austin Meadows hit one out
But don't forget we got Chris Archer
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The Departed
0836333B2830303B1B3E293A5F0 wrote: What a bite in the baseballs. Thanks, Neal. ((
Guess you will be saying the same thing when Morton gets his start
Morton's a little easier for me to take. His route to the Rays is a little more zig zag than direct, and you can't fault a guy for going where he wants. I don't really fault Huntington for trading him. I fault him maybe for not getting a little more in return, but that's even questionable.
Glasnow was traded directly, as no one needs reminded. That's a bigger bite to me.
((Guess you will be saying the same thing when Morton gets his start
Morton's a little easier for me to take. His route to the Rays is a little more zig zag than direct, and you can't fault a guy for going where he wants. I don't really fault Huntington for trading him. I fault him maybe for not getting a little more in return, but that's even questionable.
Glasnow was traded directly, as no one needs reminded. That's a bigger bite to me.
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GreenWeenie
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102E2B233028282303263122470 wrote: What a bite in the baseballs. Thanks, Neal. ((
Guess you will be saying the same thing when Morton gets his start
And when Austin Meadows hit one out
That won't bother me one bit. I admit to not being as high on him when he was with the Pirates. If you want to get a guy, you have to be willing to give up a guy in return. I kind of just shrugged. I figured if he does well with Tampa, good for him. And, he has.
((Guess you will be saying the same thing when Morton gets his start
And when Austin Meadows hit one out
That won't bother me one bit. I admit to not being as high on him when he was with the Pirates. If you want to get a guy, you have to be willing to give up a guy in return. I kind of just shrugged. I figured if he does well with Tampa, good for him. And, he has.
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WildwoodDave
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:19 am
The Departed
0F3A2D2D261F2D2D26212D480 wrote: What a bite in the baseballs. Thanks, Neal. ((
I forgot, We have Polanco and don't need Meadows
Guess you will be saying the same thing when Morton gets his start
And when Austin Meadows hit one out
That won't bother me one bit. I admit to not being as high on him when he was with the Pirates. If you want to get a guy, you have to be willing to give up a guy in return. I kind of just shrugged. I figured if he does well with Tampa, good for him. And, he has.
((I forgot, We have Polanco and don't need Meadows
Guess you will be saying the same thing when Morton gets his start
And when Austin Meadows hit one out
That won't bother me one bit. I admit to not being as high on him when he was with the Pirates. If you want to get a guy, you have to be willing to give up a guy in return. I kind of just shrugged. I figured if he does well with Tampa, good for him. And, he has.
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ArnoldRothstein
The Departed
Wilbur Wood turns 79 today. The knuckleballer is often mentioned among the worst Pirate trades ever, as he won 163 games for the White Sox, while Juan Pizarro won 9 for the Pirates.
Losing Wood was definitely a lousy transaction, but I've wondered if Wood-Pizarro was actually a trade. It always seemed to me that it went backwards: the young player going to Chicago at roster pruning time in October, with the veteran coming back as the PTBNL six weeks later. I've looked at some newspapers from the time, and they're all over the place. The Wood transaction was portrayed as a sale, but it was also portrayed as the first step in a deal that would send a hitter to Chicago for a pitcher. Over the next few weeks, every White Sox pitcher including Tommy John was rumored to be headed to Pittsburgh.
When Pizarro was finally acquired, Pirate GM Joe Brown said explicitly that he was happy to acquire a veteran pitcher without giving up any players. Some Chicago papers, though, reported it as the completion of a trade for Wood. My suspicion is that there were actually two player sales, and the Pirates just accepted Pizarro in lieu of collecting the money due on Wood.
After the rumors that had been floated, Pizarro for nothing was something of a letdown. The Pirates dealt Bob Bailey and Gene Michael to the Dodgers for Maury Wills two days later, and I've wondered if Bailey wasn't initially supposed to go to Chicago. The Dodgers made Wills available after he had left the team during a tour of Japan, and the Pirates jumped on him.
Losing Wood was definitely a lousy transaction, but I've wondered if Wood-Pizarro was actually a trade. It always seemed to me that it went backwards: the young player going to Chicago at roster pruning time in October, with the veteran coming back as the PTBNL six weeks later. I've looked at some newspapers from the time, and they're all over the place. The Wood transaction was portrayed as a sale, but it was also portrayed as the first step in a deal that would send a hitter to Chicago for a pitcher. Over the next few weeks, every White Sox pitcher including Tommy John was rumored to be headed to Pittsburgh.
When Pizarro was finally acquired, Pirate GM Joe Brown said explicitly that he was happy to acquire a veteran pitcher without giving up any players. Some Chicago papers, though, reported it as the completion of a trade for Wood. My suspicion is that there were actually two player sales, and the Pirates just accepted Pizarro in lieu of collecting the money due on Wood.
After the rumors that had been floated, Pizarro for nothing was something of a letdown. The Pirates dealt Bob Bailey and Gene Michael to the Dodgers for Maury Wills two days later, and I've wondered if Bailey wasn't initially supposed to go to Chicago. The Dodgers made Wills available after he had left the team during a tour of Japan, and the Pirates jumped on him.
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Bobster21
The Departed
063529282B231528332F3433222E29470 wrote: Wilbur Wood turns 79 today. The knuckleballer is often mentioned among the worst Pirate trades ever, as he won 163 games for the White Sox, while Juan Pizarro won 9 for the Pirates.
Losing Wood was definitely a lousy transaction, but I've wondered if Wood-Pizarro was actually a trade. It always seemed to me that it went backwards: the young player going to Chicago at roster pruning time in October, with the veteran coming back as the PTBNL six weeks later. I've looked at some newspapers from the time, and they're all over the place. The Wood transaction was portrayed as a sale, but it was also portrayed as the first step in a deal that would send a hitter to Chicago for a pitcher. Over the next few weeks, every White Sox pitcher including Tommy John was rumored to be headed to Pittsburgh.
When Pizarro was finally acquired, Pirate GM Joe Brown said explicitly that he was happy to acquire a veteran pitcher without giving up any players. Some Chicago papers, though, reported it as the completion of a trade for Wood. My suspicion is that there were actually two player sales, and the Pirates just accepted Pizarro in lieu of collecting the money due on Wood.
After the rumors that had been floated, Pizarro for nothing was something of a letdown. The Pirates dealt Bob Bailey and Gene Michael to the Dodgers for Maury Wills two days later, and I've wondered if Bailey wasn't initially supposed to go to Chicago. The Dodgers made Wills available after he had left the team during a tour of Japan, and the Pirates jumped on him.
At the time of the trade Wood was a AAAA pitcher with a below average FB and curve and only occasionally played around with a knuckler. The Red Sox gave up on him by outrighting him to AAA and then selling him to the Pirates. He spent a year doing mop up work in the Pirate BP in 1965 before they too gave up on him by outrighting him to AAA and then sending him to the White Sox.
Pizarro had been an elite pitcher for the White Sox in the early 1960s but then had arm problems and had become a fairly average reliever/spot starter for Chicago. He was a close friend of Clemente and I think I recall hearing that Clemente had recommended to Joe Brown that they acquire him. Pizarro was a serviceable reliever/spot starter for the Pirates in 1967.
But going to the White Sox saved Wood's career. He met Hoyt Wilhelm who helped him develop his knuckleball and advised him to junk his other subpar pitchers and make the knuckler his primary pitch. So at the time of the trade it looked like getting an established MLB pitcher in Pizarro was more than enough for the fringe level Wood. But Wood's career took off in a way no one could have anticipated thanks to the intervention of Wilhelm.
Losing Wood was definitely a lousy transaction, but I've wondered if Wood-Pizarro was actually a trade. It always seemed to me that it went backwards: the young player going to Chicago at roster pruning time in October, with the veteran coming back as the PTBNL six weeks later. I've looked at some newspapers from the time, and they're all over the place. The Wood transaction was portrayed as a sale, but it was also portrayed as the first step in a deal that would send a hitter to Chicago for a pitcher. Over the next few weeks, every White Sox pitcher including Tommy John was rumored to be headed to Pittsburgh.
When Pizarro was finally acquired, Pirate GM Joe Brown said explicitly that he was happy to acquire a veteran pitcher without giving up any players. Some Chicago papers, though, reported it as the completion of a trade for Wood. My suspicion is that there were actually two player sales, and the Pirates just accepted Pizarro in lieu of collecting the money due on Wood.
After the rumors that had been floated, Pizarro for nothing was something of a letdown. The Pirates dealt Bob Bailey and Gene Michael to the Dodgers for Maury Wills two days later, and I've wondered if Bailey wasn't initially supposed to go to Chicago. The Dodgers made Wills available after he had left the team during a tour of Japan, and the Pirates jumped on him.
At the time of the trade Wood was a AAAA pitcher with a below average FB and curve and only occasionally played around with a knuckler. The Red Sox gave up on him by outrighting him to AAA and then selling him to the Pirates. He spent a year doing mop up work in the Pirate BP in 1965 before they too gave up on him by outrighting him to AAA and then sending him to the White Sox.
Pizarro had been an elite pitcher for the White Sox in the early 1960s but then had arm problems and had become a fairly average reliever/spot starter for Chicago. He was a close friend of Clemente and I think I recall hearing that Clemente had recommended to Joe Brown that they acquire him. Pizarro was a serviceable reliever/spot starter for the Pirates in 1967.
But going to the White Sox saved Wood's career. He met Hoyt Wilhelm who helped him develop his knuckleball and advised him to junk his other subpar pitchers and make the knuckler his primary pitch. So at the time of the trade it looked like getting an established MLB pitcher in Pizarro was more than enough for the fringe level Wood. But Wood's career took off in a way no one could have anticipated thanks to the intervention of Wilhelm.
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ArnoldRothstein
The Departed
Little article, from May, about Pedro Alvarez holding a Zoom chat with the baseball team from his old prep school:
https://record.horacemann.org/5073/show ... all-teams/
There's nothing in the story about what Pedro is doing right now. He doesn't seem to have played anywhere in 2019-2020, will be 34 next season. It seems like he's made a quiet departure from the game.
https://record.horacemann.org/5073/show ... all-teams/
There's nothing in the story about what Pedro is doing right now. He doesn't seem to have played anywhere in 2019-2020, will be 34 next season. It seems like he's made a quiet departure from the game.
The Departed
01322E2F2C24122F3428333425292E400 wrote: Little article, from May, about Pedro Alvarez holding a Zoom chat with the baseball team from his old prep school:
https://record.horacemann.org/5073/show ... all-teams/
There's nothing in the story about what Pedro is doing right now. He doesn't seem to have played anywhere in 2019-2020, will be 34 next season. It seems like he's made a quiet departure from the game.
I had a rare opportunity to actually have a short conversation with Alvarez at a Pirates Fest back when they were at the convention center. He is such a humble guy. I got the impression that he cared more about helping people than worrying about something so silly as a game, as he was doing work for a charity, IDR if it was his or one he was helping with. He was really into it, his wife (she may have been his fiance at the time, IDR either) was the same way. It's like he only focused on the positive. It's no surprise he has quietly left the game. He's that way in person.
https://record.horacemann.org/5073/show ... all-teams/
There's nothing in the story about what Pedro is doing right now. He doesn't seem to have played anywhere in 2019-2020, will be 34 next season. It seems like he's made a quiet departure from the game.
I had a rare opportunity to actually have a short conversation with Alvarez at a Pirates Fest back when they were at the convention center. He is such a humble guy. I got the impression that he cared more about helping people than worrying about something so silly as a game, as he was doing work for a charity, IDR if it was his or one he was helping with. He was really into it, his wife (she may have been his fiance at the time, IDR either) was the same way. It's like he only focused on the positive. It's no surprise he has quietly left the game. He's that way in person.
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WildwoodDave
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:19 am
The Departed
684E495C55594E58503B0 wrote: Little article, from May, about Pedro Alvarez holding a Zoom chat with the baseball team from his old prep school:
https://record.horacemann.org/5073/show ... all-teams/
There's nothing in the story about what Pedro is doing right now. He doesn't seem to have played anywhere in 2019-2020, will be 34 next season. It seems like he's made a quiet departure from the game.
I had a rare opportunity to actually have a short conversation with Alvarez at a Pirates Fest back when they were at the convention center. He is such a humble guy. I got the impression that he cared more about helping people than worrying about something so silly as a game, as he was doing work for a charity, IDR if it was his or one he was helping with. He was really into it, his wife (she may have been his fiance at the time, IDR either) was the same way. It's like he only focused on the positive. It's no surprise he has quietly left the game. He's that way in person.
Nice to hear something positive about him. Hope Weenie reads this
https://record.horacemann.org/5073/show ... all-teams/
There's nothing in the story about what Pedro is doing right now. He doesn't seem to have played anywhere in 2019-2020, will be 34 next season. It seems like he's made a quiet departure from the game.
I had a rare opportunity to actually have a short conversation with Alvarez at a Pirates Fest back when they were at the convention center. He is such a humble guy. I got the impression that he cared more about helping people than worrying about something so silly as a game, as he was doing work for a charity, IDR if it was his or one he was helping with. He was really into it, his wife (she may have been his fiance at the time, IDR either) was the same way. It's like he only focused on the positive. It's no surprise he has quietly left the game. He's that way in person.
Nice to hear something positive about him. Hope Weenie reads this
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The Departed
Oh, come on.
You banged on the guy a lot more than I ever did.
At one time, NH said that his biggest regret as GM was his rushing of Alvarez. He probably has another these days. It's a shame that the guy couldn't hang in there.
As much of a disappointment as he was, I agree with Surg that, without Cutch and Alvarez, there's a good chance that it would've been at least a 21-year CLS, not 20.
Seems like a good guy.
You banged on the guy a lot more than I ever did.
At one time, NH said that his biggest regret as GM was his rushing of Alvarez. He probably has another these days. It's a shame that the guy couldn't hang in there.
As much of a disappointment as he was, I agree with Surg that, without Cutch and Alvarez, there's a good chance that it would've been at least a 21-year CLS, not 20.
Seems like a good guy.