143934252233246467560 wrote: If I was Shelton, I would handcuff a first base to every player for a week. Maybe some of them will get it.
And also present one to Will Craig as a parting gift.
Lloyd McClendon, Will Craig, Ke'Bryan Hayes. The Pirates OWN first base.
Official Game Thread - 6/8 - Bucs vs Dodgers
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - 6/8 - Bucs vs Dodgers
120A080F0F18090E131204610 wrote: Generally speaking the Pirates don't depress me anymore but what Hayes did last night just makes me think the Pirate way has got into his system and it really bums me out since he is my only Pirate hero.
There is definitely a systematic lack of attention to detail on this team. I can't even remember the last Pirate team that was sound fundamentally. Players, managers, coaches and GMs come and go and every spring pull out the same script and talk about focusing on fundamentals. And that ends the effort. Just read the script and then go on being the players' best friend and not holding them accountable for idiotic mistakes. Every year the same story. No one seems to know how to play the game. Fielding mistakes, running mistakes, pitching mistakes, batting mistakes, coaching mistakes. A pat on the back doesn't seem to be the cure.
Craig is a guy whose bat is never going to play in MLB and it was just a matter of time until his roster spot would be needed for someone else. But he was right back in the lineup after his historically boneheaded mistake that Shelton publicly blamed himself for. A couple weeks later he was DFA'd anyway. So why couldn't they have let him go the next day as a stern warning to everyone to get their act together? Polanco has demonstrated for years that he has no baseball IQ or ability. But that's never kept him out of the lineup. I don't care how good Hayes is, I wouldn't start him tonight. That won't be what keeps the Pirates out of the WS. But it might send a message that everyone is accountable no matter who you are. But of course that won't happen. Instead, this gross lack of fundamentals will be addressed next year in ST in the usual 30 second sequence when that yellow, brittle old script about stressing fundamentals is pulled out and read and then put away for next year.
I wouldn't dwell on this very long, he was hustling out of the box didn't think it was going out, now if he was in a home run trot and missed it that's inexcusable. I personally don't think that should be reviewable come on the guy hit the ball out there is no doubt it was a home run. Dodgers are a bunch of whiny brats.
It wouldn't be much of an issue if these inexcusable things didn't happen so often. It's just one screw up for Hayes but it comes at a time when the entire team needs to be eliminating stupid, costly, avoidable mistakes. And by essentially ignoring it (which I expect them to do) it continues a pattern of excusing the inexcusable.
I don't expect Hayes to sit tonight. Heck, even Will Craig started the next game. But if it was up to me, Hayes would start the game on the bench tonight just to send a message to the entire team. But then again if it were up to me I would have sent a message the day after Craig's blunder so maybe another message after Hayes' goof wouldn't be necessary. I guess that's the problem. The team never gets the message.
There is definitely a systematic lack of attention to detail on this team. I can't even remember the last Pirate team that was sound fundamentally. Players, managers, coaches and GMs come and go and every spring pull out the same script and talk about focusing on fundamentals. And that ends the effort. Just read the script and then go on being the players' best friend and not holding them accountable for idiotic mistakes. Every year the same story. No one seems to know how to play the game. Fielding mistakes, running mistakes, pitching mistakes, batting mistakes, coaching mistakes. A pat on the back doesn't seem to be the cure.
Craig is a guy whose bat is never going to play in MLB and it was just a matter of time until his roster spot would be needed for someone else. But he was right back in the lineup after his historically boneheaded mistake that Shelton publicly blamed himself for. A couple weeks later he was DFA'd anyway. So why couldn't they have let him go the next day as a stern warning to everyone to get their act together? Polanco has demonstrated for years that he has no baseball IQ or ability. But that's never kept him out of the lineup. I don't care how good Hayes is, I wouldn't start him tonight. That won't be what keeps the Pirates out of the WS. But it might send a message that everyone is accountable no matter who you are. But of course that won't happen. Instead, this gross lack of fundamentals will be addressed next year in ST in the usual 30 second sequence when that yellow, brittle old script about stressing fundamentals is pulled out and read and then put away for next year.
I wouldn't dwell on this very long, he was hustling out of the box didn't think it was going out, now if he was in a home run trot and missed it that's inexcusable. I personally don't think that should be reviewable come on the guy hit the ball out there is no doubt it was a home run. Dodgers are a bunch of whiny brats.
It wouldn't be much of an issue if these inexcusable things didn't happen so often. It's just one screw up for Hayes but it comes at a time when the entire team needs to be eliminating stupid, costly, avoidable mistakes. And by essentially ignoring it (which I expect them to do) it continues a pattern of excusing the inexcusable.
I don't expect Hayes to sit tonight. Heck, even Will Craig started the next game. But if it was up to me, Hayes would start the game on the bench tonight just to send a message to the entire team. But then again if it were up to me I would have sent a message the day after Craig's blunder so maybe another message after Hayes' goof wouldn't be necessary. I guess that's the problem. The team never gets the message.
Official Game Thread - 6/8 - Bucs vs Dodgers
795459484F5E49090A3B0 wrote: Generally speaking the Pirates don't depress me anymore but what Hayes did last night just makes me think the Pirate way has got into his system and it really bums me out since he is my only Pirate hero.
There is definitely a systematic lack of attention to detail on this team. I can't even remember the last Pirate team that was sound fundamentally. Players, managers, coaches and GMs come and go and every spring pull out the same script and talk about focusing on fundamentals. And that ends the effort. Just read the script and then go on being the players' best friend and not holding them accountable for idiotic mistakes. Every year the same story. No one seems to know how to play the game. Fielding mistakes, running mistakes, pitching mistakes, batting mistakes, coaching mistakes. A pat on the back doesn't seem to be the cure.
Craig is a guy whose bat is never going to play in MLB and it was just a matter of time until his roster spot would be needed for someone else. But he was right back in the lineup after his historically boneheaded mistake that Shelton publicly blamed himself for. A couple weeks later he was DFA'd anyway. So why couldn't they have let him go the next day as a stern warning to everyone to get their act together? Polanco has demonstrated for years that he has no baseball IQ or ability. But that's never kept him out of the lineup. I don't care how good Hayes is, I wouldn't start him tonight. That won't be what keeps the Pirates out of the WS. But it might send a message that everyone is accountable no matter who you are. But of course that won't happen. Instead, this gross lack of fundamentals will be addressed next year in ST in the usual 30 second sequence when that yellow, brittle old script about stressing fundamentals is pulled out and read and then put away for next year.
I wouldn't dwell on this very long, he was hustling out of the box didn't think it was going out, now if he was in a home run trot and missed it that's inexcusable. I personally don't think that should be reviewable come on the guy hit the ball out there is no doubt it was a home run. Dodgers are a bunch of whiny brats.
It wouldn't be much of an issue if these inexcusable things didn't happen so often. It's just one screw up for Hayes but it comes at a time when the entire team needs to be eliminating stupid, costly, avoidable mistakes. And by essentially ignoring it (which I expect them to do) it continues a pattern of excusing the inexcusable.
I don't expect Hayes to sit tonight. Heck, even Will Craig started the next game. But if it was up to me, Hayes would start the game on the bench tonight just to send a message to the entire team. But then again if it were up to me I would have sent a message the day after Craig's blunder so maybe another message after Hayes' goof wouldn't be necessary. I guess that's the problem. The team never gets the message.
would you sit the first base coach tonight too?
There is definitely a systematic lack of attention to detail on this team. I can't even remember the last Pirate team that was sound fundamentally. Players, managers, coaches and GMs come and go and every spring pull out the same script and talk about focusing on fundamentals. And that ends the effort. Just read the script and then go on being the players' best friend and not holding them accountable for idiotic mistakes. Every year the same story. No one seems to know how to play the game. Fielding mistakes, running mistakes, pitching mistakes, batting mistakes, coaching mistakes. A pat on the back doesn't seem to be the cure.
Craig is a guy whose bat is never going to play in MLB and it was just a matter of time until his roster spot would be needed for someone else. But he was right back in the lineup after his historically boneheaded mistake that Shelton publicly blamed himself for. A couple weeks later he was DFA'd anyway. So why couldn't they have let him go the next day as a stern warning to everyone to get their act together? Polanco has demonstrated for years that he has no baseball IQ or ability. But that's never kept him out of the lineup. I don't care how good Hayes is, I wouldn't start him tonight. That won't be what keeps the Pirates out of the WS. But it might send a message that everyone is accountable no matter who you are. But of course that won't happen. Instead, this gross lack of fundamentals will be addressed next year in ST in the usual 30 second sequence when that yellow, brittle old script about stressing fundamentals is pulled out and read and then put away for next year.
I wouldn't dwell on this very long, he was hustling out of the box didn't think it was going out, now if he was in a home run trot and missed it that's inexcusable. I personally don't think that should be reviewable come on the guy hit the ball out there is no doubt it was a home run. Dodgers are a bunch of whiny brats.
It wouldn't be much of an issue if these inexcusable things didn't happen so often. It's just one screw up for Hayes but it comes at a time when the entire team needs to be eliminating stupid, costly, avoidable mistakes. And by essentially ignoring it (which I expect them to do) it continues a pattern of excusing the inexcusable.
I don't expect Hayes to sit tonight. Heck, even Will Craig started the next game. But if it was up to me, Hayes would start the game on the bench tonight just to send a message to the entire team. But then again if it were up to me I would have sent a message the day after Craig's blunder so maybe another message after Hayes' goof wouldn't be necessary. I guess that's the problem. The team never gets the message.
would you sit the first base coach tonight too?
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - 6/8 - Bucs vs Dodgers
Michael Perez is now tied for 3rd on the team in HRs. That's sad.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 6/8 - Bucs vs Dodgers
735554435545360 wrote: Generally speaking the Pirates don't depress me anymore but what Hayes did last night just makes me think the Pirate way has got into his system and it really bums me out since he is my only Pirate hero.
There is definitely a systematic lack of attention to detail on this team. I can't even remember the last Pirate team that was sound fundamentally. Players, managers, coaches and GMs come and go and every spring pull out the same script and talk about focusing on fundamentals. And that ends the effort. Just read the script and then go on being the players' best friend and not holding them accountable for idiotic mistakes. Every year the same story. No one seems to know how to play the game. Fielding mistakes, running mistakes, pitching mistakes, batting mistakes, coaching mistakes. A pat on the back doesn't seem to be the cure.
Craig is a guy whose bat is never going to play in MLB and it was just a matter of time until his roster spot would be needed for someone else. But he was right back in the lineup after his historically boneheaded mistake that Shelton publicly blamed himself for. A couple weeks later he was DFA'd anyway. So why couldn't they have let him go the next day as a stern warning to everyone to get their act together? Polanco has demonstrated for years that he has no baseball IQ or ability. But that's never kept him out of the lineup. I don't care how good Hayes is, I wouldn't start him tonight. That won't be what keeps the Pirates out of the WS. But it might send a message that everyone is accountable no matter who you are. But of course that won't happen. Instead, this gross lack of fundamentals will be addressed next year in ST in the usual 30 second sequence when that yellow, brittle old script about stressing fundamentals is pulled out and read and then put away for next year.
I wouldn't dwell on this very long, he was hustling out of the box didn't think it was going out, now if he was in a home run trot and missed it that's inexcusable. I personally don't think that should be reviewable come on the guy hit the ball out there is no doubt it was a home run. Dodgers are a bunch of whiny brats.
It wouldn't be much of an issue if these inexcusable things didn't happen so often. It's just one screw up for Hayes but it comes at a time when the entire team needs to be eliminating stupid, costly, avoidable mistakes. And by essentially ignoring it (which I expect them to do) it continues a pattern of excusing the inexcusable.
I don't expect Hayes to sit tonight. Heck, even Will Craig started the next game. But if it was up to me, Hayes would start the game on the bench tonight just to send a message to the entire team. But then again if it were up to me I would have sent a message the day after Craig's blunder so maybe another message after Hayes' goof wouldn't be necessary. I guess that's the problem. The team never gets the message.
would you sit the first base coach tonight too?
I just might. Tired of this. It's his watch. Send the message. No excuses.
At least yell for the guy to go back and touch the bag. Now, if he DID yell, then I might not be as upset with him.
Pay attention.
There is definitely a systematic lack of attention to detail on this team. I can't even remember the last Pirate team that was sound fundamentally. Players, managers, coaches and GMs come and go and every spring pull out the same script and talk about focusing on fundamentals. And that ends the effort. Just read the script and then go on being the players' best friend and not holding them accountable for idiotic mistakes. Every year the same story. No one seems to know how to play the game. Fielding mistakes, running mistakes, pitching mistakes, batting mistakes, coaching mistakes. A pat on the back doesn't seem to be the cure.
Craig is a guy whose bat is never going to play in MLB and it was just a matter of time until his roster spot would be needed for someone else. But he was right back in the lineup after his historically boneheaded mistake that Shelton publicly blamed himself for. A couple weeks later he was DFA'd anyway. So why couldn't they have let him go the next day as a stern warning to everyone to get their act together? Polanco has demonstrated for years that he has no baseball IQ or ability. But that's never kept him out of the lineup. I don't care how good Hayes is, I wouldn't start him tonight. That won't be what keeps the Pirates out of the WS. But it might send a message that everyone is accountable no matter who you are. But of course that won't happen. Instead, this gross lack of fundamentals will be addressed next year in ST in the usual 30 second sequence when that yellow, brittle old script about stressing fundamentals is pulled out and read and then put away for next year.
I wouldn't dwell on this very long, he was hustling out of the box didn't think it was going out, now if he was in a home run trot and missed it that's inexcusable. I personally don't think that should be reviewable come on the guy hit the ball out there is no doubt it was a home run. Dodgers are a bunch of whiny brats.
It wouldn't be much of an issue if these inexcusable things didn't happen so often. It's just one screw up for Hayes but it comes at a time when the entire team needs to be eliminating stupid, costly, avoidable mistakes. And by essentially ignoring it (which I expect them to do) it continues a pattern of excusing the inexcusable.
I don't expect Hayes to sit tonight. Heck, even Will Craig started the next game. But if it was up to me, Hayes would start the game on the bench tonight just to send a message to the entire team. But then again if it were up to me I would have sent a message the day after Craig's blunder so maybe another message after Hayes' goof wouldn't be necessary. I guess that's the problem. The team never gets the message.
would you sit the first base coach tonight too?
I just might. Tired of this. It's his watch. Send the message. No excuses.
At least yell for the guy to go back and touch the bag. Now, if he DID yell, then I might not be as upset with him.
Pay attention.
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - 6/8 - Bucs vs Dodgers
527475627464170 wrote:
would you sit the first base coach tonight too?
No. It's understandable that he was watching to see if it would be a foul ball or a HR. If it hadn't been as obvious as hitting the pole and the ump had erroneously called a HR a foul ball we would expect the coach with the best view to argue and call for replay. Not miss it because he was staring at the base. The runner can feel the base under his foot. Or not feel it. This is on Hayes.
would you sit the first base coach tonight too?
No. It's understandable that he was watching to see if it would be a foul ball or a HR. If it hadn't been as obvious as hitting the pole and the ump had erroneously called a HR a foul ball we would expect the coach with the best view to argue and call for replay. Not miss it because he was staring at the base. The runner can feel the base under his foot. Or not feel it. This is on Hayes.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 6/8 - Bucs vs Dodgers
You can't fix stupid, but you can at least try to.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Official Game Thread - 6/8 - Bucs vs Dodgers
143934252233246467560 wrote:
would you sit the first base coach tonight too?
No. It's understandable that he was watching to see if it would be a foul ball or a HR. If it hadn't been as obvious as hitting the pole and the ump had erroneously called a HR a foul ball we would expect the coach with the best view to argue and call for replay. Not miss it because he was staring at the base. The runner can feel the base under his foot. Or not feel it. [highlight]This is on Hayes.[/highlight]
Yep. End of story. He, and he alone, screwed up.
would you sit the first base coach tonight too?
No. It's understandable that he was watching to see if it would be a foul ball or a HR. If it hadn't been as obvious as hitting the pole and the ump had erroneously called a HR a foul ball we would expect the coach with the best view to argue and call for replay. Not miss it because he was staring at the base. The runner can feel the base under his foot. Or not feel it. [highlight]This is on Hayes.[/highlight]
Yep. End of story. He, and he alone, screwed up.
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DemDog
Official Game Thread - 6/8 - Bucs vs Dodgers
0D5B4D59564C5C575A4D7F58525E5653115C3F0 wrote:
would you sit the first base coach tonight too?
No. It's understandable that he was watching to see if it would be a foul ball or a HR. If it hadn't been as obvious as hitting the pole and the ump had erroneously called a HR a foul ball we would expect the coach with the best view to argue and call for replay. Not miss it because he was staring at the base. The runner can feel the base under his foot. Or not feel it. [highlight]This is on Hayes.[/highlight]
Yep. End of story. He, and he alone, screwed up.
Do you think we can trade him and say Swaggarty & O Cruz to somebody with a broken-down former All-Star starting pitcher?
would you sit the first base coach tonight too?
No. It's understandable that he was watching to see if it would be a foul ball or a HR. If it hadn't been as obvious as hitting the pole and the ump had erroneously called a HR a foul ball we would expect the coach with the best view to argue and call for replay. Not miss it because he was staring at the base. The runner can feel the base under his foot. Or not feel it. [highlight]This is on Hayes.[/highlight]
Yep. End of story. He, and he alone, screwed up.
Do you think we can trade him and say Swaggarty & O Cruz to somebody with a broken-down former All-Star starting pitcher?
Official Game Thread - 6/8 - Bucs vs Dodgers
First --- last night's game.
Getting an early run off of Buehler would have been big. Hayes mental and physical error was deflating. And, while his hustle was admirable, his inability to hang onto the bag also cost the Pirates. The Pirates handed the Dodgers 2 outs that cost them at least 1 run and opportunities to extend innings.
I watched the Dodgers broadcast of the game last night. Their announcers commented that once you get through the top of the Pirates order that there isn't much left. Hayes' two outs cost opportunities for Reynolds and Moran to help the offense.
With respect to the decision to DFA Diffo and to reinstate Evans --- I don't get it, and I am not a big Diffo fan. Diffo is not much of an outfielder, but he can play multiple positions and has actually registered a few hits this season.
Conversely, Tom is 27, is experiencing his first taste of ML ball, does not appear to be a good (even average) outfielder, has rarely hit the ball with any authority, and only sports a decent OBP because of the number of walks he receives. It also appears that he is limited regarding the outfield positions that he can play.
In the big scheme of things, it likely isn't all that important to argue about the 25th or 26th player on a lousy team; but I believe it is. I doubt either Tom or Diffo has any real long term value to the Pirates, but they do need to capitalize on every roster transaction that they can. I am hoping that the logic of this action is that the Pirates have a trade in mind, and that Diffo may return someone who has a pulse and who perhaps could add some value to the franchise. Clearly, Tom has none of these attributes.
Getting an early run off of Buehler would have been big. Hayes mental and physical error was deflating. And, while his hustle was admirable, his inability to hang onto the bag also cost the Pirates. The Pirates handed the Dodgers 2 outs that cost them at least 1 run and opportunities to extend innings.
I watched the Dodgers broadcast of the game last night. Their announcers commented that once you get through the top of the Pirates order that there isn't much left. Hayes' two outs cost opportunities for Reynolds and Moran to help the offense.
With respect to the decision to DFA Diffo and to reinstate Evans --- I don't get it, and I am not a big Diffo fan. Diffo is not much of an outfielder, but he can play multiple positions and has actually registered a few hits this season.
Conversely, Tom is 27, is experiencing his first taste of ML ball, does not appear to be a good (even average) outfielder, has rarely hit the ball with any authority, and only sports a decent OBP because of the number of walks he receives. It also appears that he is limited regarding the outfield positions that he can play.
In the big scheme of things, it likely isn't all that important to argue about the 25th or 26th player on a lousy team; but I believe it is. I doubt either Tom or Diffo has any real long term value to the Pirates, but they do need to capitalize on every roster transaction that they can. I am hoping that the logic of this action is that the Pirates have a trade in mind, and that Diffo may return someone who has a pulse and who perhaps could add some value to the franchise. Clearly, Tom has none of these attributes.