6368606C6968733630477E666F6868296468070 wrote: Here is what Hurdle said about batting LeBlanc:
"No [doubts] whatsoever, based on who we had available" Hurdle said. "[Felipe] Rivero is down. [Juan] Nicasio is done. Williams threw two innings yesterday. If Williams throws today, then you're down two more days. Then you're down and moving personal around. So, we did the best with what we had and LeBlanc, that was throwing aces out there today."
why was Nicasio done? He didn't pitch on Sunday? why was Rivero down? Makes it sound like the pitching staff is already banged up. LeBlanc did great on the mound but I still don't get the idea of giving up on a big scoring chance so early in the game when there was still a good chance to come back. If Bobster is right and team gave up at that point that is bad although I don't think there is any way to tell that happened.
I wonder if Nicasio is out today too and that factored in.
4/10 Glasnow start
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
4/10 Glasnow start
4C6A6B7C6A7A090 wrote: Here is what Hurdle said about batting LeBlanc:
"No [doubts] whatsoever, based on who we had available" Hurdle said. "[Felipe] Rivero is down. [Juan] Nicasio is done. Williams threw two innings yesterday. If Williams throws today, then you're down two more days. Then you're down and moving personal around. So, we did the best with what we had and LeBlanc, that was throwing aces out there today."
why was Nicasio done? He didn't pitch on Sunday? why was Rivero down? Makes it sound like the pitching staff is already banged up. LeBlanc did great on the mound but I still don't get the idea of giving up on a big scoring chance so early in the game when there was still a good chance to come back. If Bobster is right and team gave up at that point that is bad although I don't think there is any way to tell that happened.
I wonder if Nicasio is out today too and that factored in.
Per the Trib: Juan Nicasio and Felipe Rivero were unavailable due to a heavy workload.
Nicasio pitched 1 inning on Monday April 3 (23 pitches), Wednesday April 5 (13 pitches) and Saturday April 8 (16 pitches). So he was unavailable on Monday April 10 due to heavy workload??? Unless he's hurt, that's insane.
Also, I don't know that the Pirate hitters gave up last night. Could be coincidental that none of them reached base after LeBlanc batted for himself in the 3rd. But it makes we wonder if they went to bat after that conceding that the game was lost because of what Hurdle had done in the 3rd. If Nicasio was truly unavailable, Hurdle's decision makes more sense. But since when is it an overload to pitch 1 inning in 3 of the previous 7 days with 1 day in between the first two, 2 days in between the last two and 1 more day since the last one?
"No [doubts] whatsoever, based on who we had available" Hurdle said. "[Felipe] Rivero is down. [Juan] Nicasio is done. Williams threw two innings yesterday. If Williams throws today, then you're down two more days. Then you're down and moving personal around. So, we did the best with what we had and LeBlanc, that was throwing aces out there today."
why was Nicasio done? He didn't pitch on Sunday? why was Rivero down? Makes it sound like the pitching staff is already banged up. LeBlanc did great on the mound but I still don't get the idea of giving up on a big scoring chance so early in the game when there was still a good chance to come back. If Bobster is right and team gave up at that point that is bad although I don't think there is any way to tell that happened.
I wonder if Nicasio is out today too and that factored in.
Per the Trib: Juan Nicasio and Felipe Rivero were unavailable due to a heavy workload.
Nicasio pitched 1 inning on Monday April 3 (23 pitches), Wednesday April 5 (13 pitches) and Saturday April 8 (16 pitches). So he was unavailable on Monday April 10 due to heavy workload??? Unless he's hurt, that's insane.
Also, I don't know that the Pirate hitters gave up last night. Could be coincidental that none of them reached base after LeBlanc batted for himself in the 3rd. But it makes we wonder if they went to bat after that conceding that the game was lost because of what Hurdle had done in the 3rd. If Nicasio was truly unavailable, Hurdle's decision makes more sense. But since when is it an overload to pitch 1 inning in 3 of the previous 7 days with 1 day in between the first two, 2 days in between the last two and 1 more day since the last one?
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
4/10 Glasnow start
2D2C3726307077430 wrote: I've never seen a team deserve to lose a baseball game tonight as our Pirates. Could patch, couldn't hit when it mattered, gave up a zillion sb's and hr, and could field worth nuthin'.
We need to own this "l" and realize most teams aren't the Braves and here for us to run over.
Has the Reds bullpen been great tonight or did the Bucs give up? Last year the Reds had the worst or next to worst bullpen in baseball. Two guys tonight pitched 3 innings without allowing a hit or walk. That looks impressive.
When your manager gives up, what do you expect. Bases loaded 3rd inning and manager sends up the relief pitcher up to hit, that sent a message and the team got it loud and clear, game over. Hurdle needs to go.
Glasnow forced Hurdle's hand. We have seven guys in the bullpen.
Williams and Rivera were not going to be used. LaBlanc would be coming out.
So you now need to get six innings from Watson, Hudson, Nicasio, and Bastardo. None of these guys are long men or are stretched to go multiple innings. This tears up you bullpen for a week,
This one is on the players. We had men on first and second with no one out in the first and loaded the bases with no one out in the 2nd and 3rd. We scored one run. That's not on Hurdle.
I would imagine if we had scored some runs, he might have gotten Taillon up, but there is no reason to burn your bullpen on the .333 chance that Jaso or Hanson gets on base to narrow the score.
Glasnow took Clints toolbox away last night and LaBlancs a bit of hero for saving the bullpen's availability.
Hurdle doesn't know how to manage this team and he proved it last night and I've seen him do stupid things like this time and time again. Unfortunately we're not going anywhere with this guy giving up on games when your behind, the players know when the manager has given up and they play to his expectations.
So who do you send out there to pitch? I guess you blow through all available arms when you're already down 5? Then what happens today?
Nicasio, Williams, Rivero, Hudson, Taillon, it depends on what happen when I pinch hit for LeBlanc. If your giving up bring in a fielder to pitch, and we could always bring up a minor leaguer to fill in any problems it leaves.
We need to own this "l" and realize most teams aren't the Braves and here for us to run over.
Has the Reds bullpen been great tonight or did the Bucs give up? Last year the Reds had the worst or next to worst bullpen in baseball. Two guys tonight pitched 3 innings without allowing a hit or walk. That looks impressive.
When your manager gives up, what do you expect. Bases loaded 3rd inning and manager sends up the relief pitcher up to hit, that sent a message and the team got it loud and clear, game over. Hurdle needs to go.
Glasnow forced Hurdle's hand. We have seven guys in the bullpen.
Williams and Rivera were not going to be used. LaBlanc would be coming out.
So you now need to get six innings from Watson, Hudson, Nicasio, and Bastardo. None of these guys are long men or are stretched to go multiple innings. This tears up you bullpen for a week,
This one is on the players. We had men on first and second with no one out in the first and loaded the bases with no one out in the 2nd and 3rd. We scored one run. That's not on Hurdle.
I would imagine if we had scored some runs, he might have gotten Taillon up, but there is no reason to burn your bullpen on the .333 chance that Jaso or Hanson gets on base to narrow the score.
Glasnow took Clints toolbox away last night and LaBlancs a bit of hero for saving the bullpen's availability.
Hurdle doesn't know how to manage this team and he proved it last night and I've seen him do stupid things like this time and time again. Unfortunately we're not going anywhere with this guy giving up on games when your behind, the players know when the manager has given up and they play to his expectations.
So who do you send out there to pitch? I guess you blow through all available arms when you're already down 5? Then what happens today?
Nicasio, Williams, Rivero, Hudson, Taillon, it depends on what happen when I pinch hit for LeBlanc. If your giving up bring in a fielder to pitch, and we could always bring up a minor leaguer to fill in any problems it leaves.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
4/10 Glasnow start
Three of those guys were not available. Now you are down to Hudson and today's starter, Taillon.
How many innings do you think Hudson would go? Who starts today?
There was no guarantee the pinch hitter would have got a hit. You are willing to start the next game in the hole too by losing your best starter? Not sure I like that call.
How many innings do you think Hudson would go? Who starts today?
There was no guarantee the pinch hitter would have got a hit. You are willing to start the next game in the hole too by losing your best starter? Not sure I like that call.
4/10 Glasnow start
A well-written article by David Todd.
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2017/4/11/152 ... eblanc-hit
Those who say Hurdle made the wrong decision need to answer two questions:
1. Who pitches the rest of the game, knowing that you are already down Rivero, and probably Williams? (I agree with Bobster...not sure why Nicasio wasn't available.)
2. Who pinch hits? If Kang were here, and Freese was available on the bench, that's an easy answer. But, he's not. You know it's not going to be Stewart, especially with Cervelli seemingly having hurt his hand earlier in the game (I think he was faking it to give Glasnow a chance to compose himself). So, your options are: the light hitting Alen Hanson? John Jaso? Josh Harrison, who apparently isn't 100%? Phil Gosselin?
None of those guys are realistic options to come in and tie it with one swing of the bat.
All things considered, I'm more convinced now than I was last night that Hurdle made the right decision.
In another note, I keep hoping McCutchen proves me wrong about his decline. I was glad he got a hit last night, and absolutely smoked two other balls: the foul ball that nearly killed Joey Cora, and the shot that Hamilton tracked down at the wall. Off the bat, I thought that was gone. Hopefully, that's a sign of some good things to come from double deuce.
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2017/4/11/152 ... eblanc-hit
Those who say Hurdle made the wrong decision need to answer two questions:
1. Who pitches the rest of the game, knowing that you are already down Rivero, and probably Williams? (I agree with Bobster...not sure why Nicasio wasn't available.)
2. Who pinch hits? If Kang were here, and Freese was available on the bench, that's an easy answer. But, he's not. You know it's not going to be Stewart, especially with Cervelli seemingly having hurt his hand earlier in the game (I think he was faking it to give Glasnow a chance to compose himself). So, your options are: the light hitting Alen Hanson? John Jaso? Josh Harrison, who apparently isn't 100%? Phil Gosselin?
None of those guys are realistic options to come in and tie it with one swing of the bat.
All things considered, I'm more convinced now than I was last night that Hurdle made the right decision.
In another note, I keep hoping McCutchen proves me wrong about his decline. I was glad he got a hit last night, and absolutely smoked two other balls: the foul ball that nearly killed Joey Cora, and the shot that Hamilton tracked down at the wall. Off the bat, I thought that was gone. Hopefully, that's a sign of some good things to come from double deuce.
4/10 Glasnow start
243C3E39392E3F38252432570 wrote: I've never seen a team deserve to lose a baseball game tonight as our Pirates. Could patch, couldn't hit when it mattered, gave up a zillion sb's and hr, and could field worth nuthin'.
We need to own this "l" and realize most teams aren't the Braves and here for us to run over.
Has the Reds bullpen been great tonight or did the Bucs give up? Last year the Reds had the worst or next to worst bullpen in baseball. Two guys tonight pitched 3 innings without allowing a hit or walk. That looks impressive.
When your manager gives up, what do you expect. Bases loaded 3rd inning and manager sends up the relief pitcher up to hit, that sent a message and the team got it loud and clear, game over. Hurdle needs to go.
Glasnow forced Hurdle's hand. We have seven guys in the bullpen.
Williams and Rivera were not going to be used. LaBlanc would be coming out.
So you now need to get six innings from Watson, Hudson, Nicasio, and Bastardo. None of these guys are long men or are stretched to go multiple innings. This tears up you bullpen for a week,
This one is on the players. We had men on first and second with no one out in the first and loaded the bases with no one out in the 2nd and 3rd. We scored one run. That's not on Hurdle.
I would imagine if we had scored some runs, he might have gotten Taillon up, but there is no reason to burn your bullpen on the .333 chance that Jaso or Hanson gets on base to narrow the score.
Glasnow took Clints toolbox away last night and LaBlancs a bit of hero for saving the bullpen's availability.
Hurdle doesn't know how to manage this team and he proved it last night and I've seen him do stupid things like this time and time again. Unfortunately we're not going anywhere with this guy giving up on games when your behind, the players know when the manager has given up and they play to his expectations.
So who do you send out there to pitch? I guess you blow through all available arms when you're already down 5? Then what happens today?
Nicasio, Williams, Rivero, Hudson, Taillon, it depends on what happen when I pinch hit for LeBlanc. If your giving up bring in a fielder to pitch, and we could always bring up a minor leaguer to fill in any problems it leaves.
Yeah, but it doesn't work that way. This isn't MLB 2K17 The Show or whatever it's called. In the real world, you don't get to pick your reliever after the fact. In the real world, LeBlanc represented the third out. Let's say whoever pinch hits for him makes the third out. You don't get the luxury of deciding at that point who you want up. They have to already be up and loose.
You really want to send Taillon down to the bullpen, tell him to get loose, that he might be going in, in game six of the year mind you, and then tell him to shut it down? That's a recipe for disaster.
We need to own this "l" and realize most teams aren't the Braves and here for us to run over.
Has the Reds bullpen been great tonight or did the Bucs give up? Last year the Reds had the worst or next to worst bullpen in baseball. Two guys tonight pitched 3 innings without allowing a hit or walk. That looks impressive.
When your manager gives up, what do you expect. Bases loaded 3rd inning and manager sends up the relief pitcher up to hit, that sent a message and the team got it loud and clear, game over. Hurdle needs to go.
Glasnow forced Hurdle's hand. We have seven guys in the bullpen.
Williams and Rivera were not going to be used. LaBlanc would be coming out.
So you now need to get six innings from Watson, Hudson, Nicasio, and Bastardo. None of these guys are long men or are stretched to go multiple innings. This tears up you bullpen for a week,
This one is on the players. We had men on first and second with no one out in the first and loaded the bases with no one out in the 2nd and 3rd. We scored one run. That's not on Hurdle.
I would imagine if we had scored some runs, he might have gotten Taillon up, but there is no reason to burn your bullpen on the .333 chance that Jaso or Hanson gets on base to narrow the score.
Glasnow took Clints toolbox away last night and LaBlancs a bit of hero for saving the bullpen's availability.
Hurdle doesn't know how to manage this team and he proved it last night and I've seen him do stupid things like this time and time again. Unfortunately we're not going anywhere with this guy giving up on games when your behind, the players know when the manager has given up and they play to his expectations.
So who do you send out there to pitch? I guess you blow through all available arms when you're already down 5? Then what happens today?
Nicasio, Williams, Rivero, Hudson, Taillon, it depends on what happen when I pinch hit for LeBlanc. If your giving up bring in a fielder to pitch, and we could always bring up a minor leaguer to fill in any problems it leaves.
Yeah, but it doesn't work that way. This isn't MLB 2K17 The Show or whatever it's called. In the real world, you don't get to pick your reliever after the fact. In the real world, LeBlanc represented the third out. Let's say whoever pinch hits for him makes the third out. You don't get the luxury of deciding at that point who you want up. They have to already be up and loose.
You really want to send Taillon down to the bullpen, tell him to get loose, that he might be going in, in game six of the year mind you, and then tell him to shut it down? That's a recipe for disaster.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
4/10 Glasnow start
Not to mention that we still have a long stretch of consecutive games coming up here. If we're stretched in the pen now, imagine if for some reason taillon has to exit early tonight or we have more extra innings or something like that.
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steve49
4/10 Glasnow start
1B2925253103202924212E29480 wrote: I've never seen a team deserve to lose a baseball game tonight as our Pirates. Could patch, couldn't hit when it mattered, gave up a zillion sb's and hr, and could field worth nuthin'.
We need to own this "l" and realize most teams aren't the Braves and here for us to run over.
Has the Reds bullpen been great tonight or did the Bucs give up? Last year the Reds had the worst or next to worst bullpen in baseball. Two guys tonight pitched 3 innings without allowing a hit or walk. That looks impressive.
When your manager gives up, what do you expect. Bases loaded 3rd inning and manager sends up the relief pitcher up to hit, that sent a message and the team got it loud and clear, game over. Hurdle needs to go.
Glasnow forced Hurdle's hand. We have seven guys in the bullpen.
Williams and Rivera were not going to be used. LaBlanc would be coming out.
So you now need to get six innings from Watson, Hudson, Nicasio, and Bastardo. None of these guys are long men or are stretched to go multiple innings. This tears up you bullpen for a week,
This one is on the players. We had men on first and second with no one out in the first and loaded the bases with no one out in the 2nd and 3rd. We scored one run. That's not on Hurdle.
I would imagine if we had scored some runs, he might have gotten Taillon up, but there is no reason to burn your bullpen on the .333 chance that Jaso or Hanson gets on base to narrow the score.
Glasnow took Clints toolbox away last night and LaBlancs a bit of hero for saving the bullpen's availability.
Hurdle doesn't know how to manage this team and he proved it last night and I've seen him do stupid things like this time and time again. Unfortunately we're not going anywhere with this guy giving up on games when your behind, the players know when the manager has given up and they play to his expectations.
So when you pinch hit, who do you bring in to pitch? Taillon? If so what about the game today?
I thought Nicasio was available and that made his decision to stay with Leblanc "iffy." The I read that He was out as well as Rivero and Williams , Hurdle had no choice. All he had left was Hudson , Bastardo and Watson. No way you can not do what Hurdle did .
We need to own this "l" and realize most teams aren't the Braves and here for us to run over.
Has the Reds bullpen been great tonight or did the Bucs give up? Last year the Reds had the worst or next to worst bullpen in baseball. Two guys tonight pitched 3 innings without allowing a hit or walk. That looks impressive.
When your manager gives up, what do you expect. Bases loaded 3rd inning and manager sends up the relief pitcher up to hit, that sent a message and the team got it loud and clear, game over. Hurdle needs to go.
Glasnow forced Hurdle's hand. We have seven guys in the bullpen.
Williams and Rivera were not going to be used. LaBlanc would be coming out.
So you now need to get six innings from Watson, Hudson, Nicasio, and Bastardo. None of these guys are long men or are stretched to go multiple innings. This tears up you bullpen for a week,
This one is on the players. We had men on first and second with no one out in the first and loaded the bases with no one out in the 2nd and 3rd. We scored one run. That's not on Hurdle.
I would imagine if we had scored some runs, he might have gotten Taillon up, but there is no reason to burn your bullpen on the .333 chance that Jaso or Hanson gets on base to narrow the score.
Glasnow took Clints toolbox away last night and LaBlancs a bit of hero for saving the bullpen's availability.
Hurdle doesn't know how to manage this team and he proved it last night and I've seen him do stupid things like this time and time again. Unfortunately we're not going anywhere with this guy giving up on games when your behind, the players know when the manager has given up and they play to his expectations.
So when you pinch hit, who do you bring in to pitch? Taillon? If so what about the game today?
I thought Nicasio was available and that made his decision to stay with Leblanc "iffy." The I read that He was out as well as Rivero and Williams , Hurdle had no choice. All he had left was Hudson , Bastardo and Watson. No way you can not do what Hurdle did .
4/10 Glasnow start
While there are a plethora of criticisms possible for what happened in the game there are really on 2 takeaways from it that are important to note:
1. When your starting pitcher manages to go less than 2 complete innings it creates a domino effect of potential no-win scenarios that Danny Murtaugh, Chuck Tanner and Jim Leyland combined couldn't overcome.
2. The Bucs were darn fortunate that LaBlanc pitched so well to stop the bleeding at a single game and not allow this to be something that comes back to haunt them in the next couple of games because of a stretched out bullpen.
1. When your starting pitcher manages to go less than 2 complete innings it creates a domino effect of potential no-win scenarios that Danny Murtaugh, Chuck Tanner and Jim Leyland combined couldn't overcome.
2. The Bucs were darn fortunate that LaBlanc pitched so well to stop the bleeding at a single game and not allow this to be something that comes back to haunt them in the next couple of games because of a stretched out bullpen.
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rucker59@gmail.com
4/10 Glasnow start
183C282025490 wrote: While there are a plethora of criticisms possible for what happened in the game there are really on 2 takeaways from it that are important to note:
1. When your starting pitcher manages to go less than 2 complete innings it creates a domino effect of potential no-win scenarios that Danny Murtaugh, Chuck Tanner and Jim Leyland combined couldn't overcome.
2. The Bucs were darn fortunate that LaBlanc pitched so well to stop the bleeding at a single game and not allow this to be something that comes back to haunt them in the next couple of games because of a stretched out bullpen.
This is one reason why pitching Glasnow in Chicago is not a good idea.
1. When your starting pitcher manages to go less than 2 complete innings it creates a domino effect of potential no-win scenarios that Danny Murtaugh, Chuck Tanner and Jim Leyland combined couldn't overcome.
2. The Bucs were darn fortunate that LaBlanc pitched so well to stop the bleeding at a single game and not allow this to be something that comes back to haunt them in the next couple of games because of a stretched out bullpen.
This is one reason why pitching Glasnow in Chicago is not a good idea.