OnlyBucs

Hutchinson is out of options after this year, too, so we may end up with nothing at all, depending on whether he can make the 25-man next year or we can flip him for someone else.

735E53424554430300310 wrote: Josh Donaldson would be a great pick  up, but what would it take to get him? 


Well, given that it took two of our top ten AND Liriano to "get" Drew Hutchison, my guess would be...a lot.


Do you think Toronto fans are on their GM for that trade?  You are over ranking the prospects.  Liriano is even worse now.  Pirates are "winning" that trade right now.



Donaldson would be great.  He has been hurt a lot this year, so maybe that would lower his price tag.


Nice to know the Pirates are "winning" that trade. By that I guess you mean they got money off the books and shed a problematic pitcher. It's hard to see the acquisition of a pitcher who failed in the majors with over 400 innings and is back in AAA this year as a win. Hutchison was doing well for awhile but 2 of his last 3 starts have been bad and his ERA is an unimpressive 3.70. For the past 5 years, Toronto has maintained a payroll in the top 10 so they probably aren't fretting Liriano's salary as much as they are his poor pitching. But Ramirez and McGuire are both 22. McGuire still isn't hitting but is a good defensive catcher and could at least be a capable backup. Chris Stewart made a career of that. Ramirez, after hitting .306 in AA last year, got off to a terrible start but hit .262 in May, .261 in June and is currently hitting .313 for July. So he's starting to look more like the guy who batted .306 for Altoona last year. Liriano's contract is up after this year and if Toronto ends up with a backup catcher and a 4th outfielder in a couple years and all they gave up was Hutchison, they come out ahead. If you want to say the Pirates are "winning" that trade because the only guy out of it currently in the majors is the ineffective Liriano, that seems rather short-sighed. Looking ahead, I'd rather have Ramirez and McGuire in the system than Hutchison. 




Until McGuire and Ramirez make it, the Pirates are "winning" that trade. Not short-sighted at all, just my opinion with all involved in that trade.



It was not a bad trade but still keeps being brought up. Toronto spent $77 million dollars more and are in last place. But at least they spent money...that's all that matters! If Huntington had a payroll of $177 million and was in last place, would you think he was doing a good job?

30020E0E1A280B020F0A0502630 wrote: I agree that we do need an outfielder.  I mean, knock on wood, but we're six outs from being three games out.  As I've said all year, I don't really think any of the Brewers, Cubs, Pirates, or Cards deserve to be in the playoffs, but the rules say that one of them will be.  Should it be us, we can't, absolutely can't, go into a playoff series with John Jaso and Adam Frazier toiling around in left field.  They did an admirable job, but we need a real outfielder, should the need arise. 



Fortunately, we should be set in the outfield until a potential playoff series.  This is why I think this sets up perfectly for a waiver trade in late August.  Let's say we're two or three games out on August 28 or so.  There's got to be some outfielder out there with an albatross contract, and low and behold, we "saved" money on Marte sitting out half the year, and Kang sitting out the entire year.  In theory we should be able to afford such a contract.



I don't think we deal for an outfielder until mid-August, at the earliest.


Curtis Granderson?  He's probably done after this year. 
The waiver trade strategy makes sense. Be as sure as you can that you will need to fill the spot before paying the price. Helps the bench down the stretch too. It can't be too late though as guys need to be on the roster by 9/1(?) to be playoff eligible. Right?



I'd go for the other Met OFer with an expiring contract, Jay Bruce. That assumes that he hasn't already been traded.

You are probably right.  My opinion of those guys mentioned are different than yours. 



The Orioles did trade Arietta for Feldman and Clevenger.  They traded Zach Davies for Gerardo Parra.  In my opinion, their GM isn't a very good trader.  Britton might be his best talent to dangle out there in years. 



Britton's contract and injuries (his elbow) might not make him as great of a candidate for a big return as some might think.  I guess we will find out.  The Orioles might not even move him at all.




This is all true. I'm betting the O's don't trade him because of health concerns. But if they do, it's not going to be for a couple of #5 upside starters.

The Orioles are a team to watch. They have some young starting pitching that is kind of struggling. They have a few bullpen arms that can be dealt. But they don't want to sell the whole team (no Jones, Machado, Givins). Can Searage help some of those pitchers (Tillman, Bundy, Gausman, Asher)?



Someone lives near/in Baltimore and probably knows more (is it Bobster?). They could trade pieces to help teams down the stretch and in the future.

7B70787471706B2E285F667E777070317C701F0 wrote: The Orioles are a team to watch.  They have some young starting pitching that is kind of struggling.  They have a few bullpen arms that can be dealt.  But they don't want to sell the whole team (no Jones, Machado, Givins).  Can Searage help some of those pitchers (Tillman, Bundy, Gausman, Asher)?



Someone lives near/in Baltimore and probably knows more (is it Bobster?).  They could trade pieces to help teams down the stretch and in the future.
Tillman's decline seems to be injury related. Gausman and Bundy were the recent top pitching prospects. Gausman has certainly underachieved. He seems like some one Searage could work with. He has the ability/stuff but seems to think he can just overpower batters. It's not working. But he shows flashes. Just this month he's pitched 2 very good games and 2 awful ones. Bundy seems to be the star in the making. They were forced to keep him last year when he was out of options but planned to use him sparingly (as if he were a rule 5 pitcher). But he did so well he ended up in the rotation and did a respectable job. He hasn't shown substantial improvement this year but he's still doing an overall good job considering he's only had 33 career starts. He's probably as untouchable as any Oriole. And I don't think they want to give up on Gausman when they need pitching and after seeing Arrieta thrive in Chicago.



What the Orioles need is pitching. So they aren't a good match for a team looking to trade for a pitcher. What the Orioles have in abundance is outfielder: Jones, Smith, Mancini, Rickard, Kim, Trumbo. Smith, Rickard and Kim could be available and would be fine as a 4th outfielder.

262D25292C2D367375023B232A2D2D6C212D420 wrote: Josh Donaldson would be a great pick  up, but what would it take to get him? 


Well, given that it took two of our top ten AND Liriano to "get" Drew Hutchison, my guess would be...a lot.


Do you think Toronto fans are on their GM for that trade?  You are over ranking the prospects.  Liriano is even worse now.  Pirates are "winning" that trade right now.



Donaldson would be great.  He has been hurt a lot this year, so maybe that would lower his price tag.


Nice to know the Pirates are "winning" that trade. By that I guess you mean they got money off the books and shed a problematic pitcher. It's hard to see the acquisition of a pitcher who failed in the majors with over 400 innings and is back in AAA this year as a win. Hutchison was doing well for awhile but 2 of his last 3 starts have been bad and his ERA is an unimpressive 3.70. For the past 5 years, Toronto has maintained a payroll in the top 10 so they probably aren't fretting Liriano's salary as much as they are his poor pitching. But Ramirez and McGuire are both 22. McGuire still isn't hitting but is a good defensive catcher and could at least be a capable backup. Chris Stewart made a career of that. Ramirez, after hitting .306 in AA last year, got off to a terrible start but hit .262 in May, .261 in June and is currently hitting .313 for July. So he's starting to look more like the guy who batted .306 for Altoona last year. Liriano's contract is up after this year and if Toronto ends up with a backup catcher and a 4th outfielder in a couple years and all they gave up was Hutchison, they come out ahead. If you want to say the Pirates are "winning" that trade because the only guy out of it currently in the majors is the ineffective Liriano, that seems rather short-sighed. Looking ahead, I'd rather have Ramirez and McGuire in the system than Hutchison. 




Until McGuire and Ramirez make it, the Pirates are "winning" that trade.  Not short-sighted at all, just my opinion with all involved in that trade.



It was not a bad trade but still keeps being brought up.  Toronto spent $77 million dollars more and are in last place.  But at least they spent money...that's all that matters!  If Huntington had a payroll of $177 million and was in last place, would you think he was doing a good job? 




What if the Pirates spent $177M and won a WS?



I'm gonna blame all this on the consequences of "the new math"....

7F525F4E49584F0F0C3D0 wrote: Josh Donaldson would be a great pick  up, but what would it take to get him? 


Well, given that it took two of our top ten AND Liriano to "get" Drew Hutchison, my guess would be...a lot.


Do you think Toronto fans are on their GM for that trade?  You are over ranking the prospects.  Liriano is even worse now.  Pirates are "winning" that trade right now.



Donaldson would be great.  He has been hurt a lot this year, so maybe that would lower his price tag.


Nice to know the Pirates are "winning" that trade. By that I guess you mean they got money off the books and shed a problematic pitcher. It's hard to see the acquisition of a pitcher who failed in the majors with over 400 innings and is back in AAA this year as a win. Hutchison was doing well for awhile but 2 of his last 3 starts have been bad and his ERA is an unimpressive 3.70. For the past 5 years, Toronto has maintained a payroll in the top 10 so they probably aren't fretting Liriano's salary as much as they are his poor pitching. But Ramirez and McGuire are both 22. McGuire still isn't hitting but is a good defensive catcher and could at least be a capable backup. Chris Stewart made a career of that. Ramirez, after hitting .306 in AA last year, got off to a terrible start but hit .262 in May, .261 in June and is currently hitting .313 for July. So he's starting to look more like the guy who batted .306 for Altoona last year. Liriano's contract is up after this year and if Toronto ends up with a backup catcher and a 4th outfielder in a couple years and all they gave up was Hutchison, they come out ahead. If you want to say the Pirates are "winning" that trade because the only guy out of it currently in the majors is the ineffective Liriano, that seems rather short-sighed. Looking ahead, I'd rather have Ramirez and McGuire in the system than Hutchison. 




It's 20 million dollars to spend elsewhere. To not see the benefit of that to me is very shortsighted. Of course the 20 million off the books got us 80% of Nova, but that comes out of some sort of different account, right.



This trade is a huge win and was well thought out. McGuire might one day be Stewart, and Ramirez might be one day be Xavier Paul.

I'll take three years of Nova of the five players we gave away in a heartbeat.

1E23243E23244A0 wrote: Josh Donaldson would be a great pick  up, but what would it take to get him? 


Well, given that it took two of our top ten AND Liriano to "get" Drew Hutchison, my guess would be...a lot.


Do you think Toronto fans are on their GM for that trade?  You are over ranking the prospects.  Liriano is even worse now.  Pirates are "winning" that trade right now.



Donaldson would be great.  He has been hurt a lot this year, so maybe that would lower his price tag.


Nice to know the Pirates are "winning" that trade. By that I guess you mean they got money off the books and shed a problematic pitcher. It's hard to see the acquisition of a pitcher who failed in the majors with over 400 innings and is back in AAA this year as a win. Hutchison was doing well for awhile but 2 of his last 3 starts have been bad and his ERA is an unimpressive 3.70. For the past 5 years, Toronto has maintained a payroll in the top 10 so they probably aren't fretting Liriano's salary as much as they are his poor pitching. But Ramirez and McGuire are both 22. McGuire still isn't hitting but is a good defensive catcher and could at least be a capable backup. Chris Stewart made a career of that. Ramirez, after hitting .306 in AA last year, got off to a terrible start but hit .262 in May, .261 in June and is currently hitting .313 for July. So he's starting to look more like the guy who batted .306 for Altoona last year. Liriano's contract is up after this year and if Toronto ends up with a backup catcher and a 4th outfielder in a couple years and all they gave up was Hutchison, they come out ahead. If you want to say the Pirates are "winning" that trade because the only guy out of it currently in the majors is the ineffective Liriano, that seems rather short-sighed. Looking ahead, I'd rather have Ramirez and McGuire in the system than Hutchison. 




It's 20 million dollars to spend elsewhere.  To not see the benefit of that to me is very shortsighted.  Of course the 20 million off the books got us 80% of Nova, but that comes out of some sort of different account, right. 



This trade is a huge win and was well thought out.  McGuire might one day be Stewart, and Ramirez might be one day be Xavier Paul.

I'll take three years of Nova of the five players we gave away in a heartbeat.
















you'll take three  years of Nova now but what if he turns into a Liriano? 



It may have been well thought out but it was risky.  Nova didn't sign with Pirates until Christmas time. He was on open market for over 6 weeks.  If he would have signed elsewhere who knows where the Bucs would have spent that money? Daniel Hudson signed with Bucs before Nova.

625F58425F58360 wrote: Josh Donaldson would be a great pick  up, but what would it take to get him? 


Well, given that it took two of our top ten AND Liriano to "get" Drew Hutchison, my guess would be...a lot.


Do you think Toronto fans are on their GM for that trade?  You are over ranking the prospects.  Liriano is even worse now.  Pirates are "winning" that trade right now.



Donaldson would be great.  He has been hurt a lot this year, so maybe that would lower his price tag.


Nice to know the Pirates are "winning" that trade. By that I guess you mean they got money off the books and shed a problematic pitcher. It's hard to see the acquisition of a pitcher who failed in the majors with over 400 innings and is back in AAA this year as a win. Hutchison was doing well for awhile but 2 of his last 3 starts have been bad and his ERA is an unimpressive 3.70. For the past 5 years, Toronto has maintained a payroll in the top 10 so they probably aren't fretting Liriano's salary as much as they are his poor pitching. But Ramirez and McGuire are both 22. McGuire still isn't hitting but is a good defensive catcher and could at least be a capable backup. Chris Stewart made a career of that. Ramirez, after hitting .306 in AA last year, got off to a terrible start but hit .262 in May, .261 in June and is currently hitting .313 for July. So he's starting to look more like the guy who batted .306 for Altoona last year. Liriano's contract is up after this year and if Toronto ends up with a backup catcher and a 4th outfielder in a couple years and all they gave up was Hutchison, they come out ahead. If you want to say the Pirates are "winning" that trade because the only guy out of it currently in the majors is the ineffective Liriano, that seems rather short-sighed. Looking ahead, I'd rather have Ramirez and McGuire in the system than Hutchison. 




It's 20 million dollars to spend elsewhere.  To not see the benefit of that to me is very shortsighted.  Of course the 20 million off the books got us 80% of Nova, but that comes out of some sort of different account, right. 



This trade is a huge win and was well thought out.  McGuire might one day be Stewart, and Ramirez might be one day be Xavier Paul.

I'll take three years of Nova of the five players we gave away in a heartbeat.








I'm sorry, there is zero justification for ever giving away prospects in a salary dump. Any other team that wants to move a contract takes on some salary. Fine, cut loses but never give up prospects.



If the Pirates can't pick up X% of a contract then they simply are not a major league franchise - they can never sign a contract for fear of a bad contract.



So, as we approach the trade deadline and the Pirates by some miracle are in the thick of things: what do the Pirates need to compete? How about bullpen arms? How about a solid bench player? How about a legit OFer? Those two prospects could easily be part of an acquisition. But we have two less prospects to work with for legitimate baseball moves. All because this franchise will do anything to unload a "bad" contract.