0A212D2421207A774E0 wrote: You're all out of your mind to trade Cole. His value is lower than ever with a bunch of dumb luck crazy bad HR/FB rates over half of this season. Trading him is madness. Look at his career numbers for 30 seconds please.
Who the heck else are you going to plug into this rotation? GLASNOW? Oh wait, Nick Kingham? Oooh Trevor Williams?
Come on, get real. Starting pitching is by far the single most expensive thing in the game. Thinking the pirates would (or even should) think about trading a cheap, effective starter with years of control left is off the reservation.
I'd trade Cole if someone offered the right return, but I agree - teams trade at the deadline for performance NOW. He's not exactly at the apex of his career. I WOULD trade him at the earliest opportunity(FOR VALUE, not just to do it), though, as I think what we see is what we will get - an erratic pitcher who will never live up to his amazing talent.
I'd trade Cutch in a hot second. His value will NEVER be higher. He's in his 30's and his knees are so bad he gave up stealing bases. They moved him out of center field. He went into the dumpster for A YEAR AND A HALF. Don't be sentimental. He WILL go back into the dumpster, and we'll be the biggest fools in baseball for not having taken advantage of his momentary return to form.
Spend multi-millions so you can erect a statue to an outfielder who stood at 1st, hit .220 and earned Oh-My-God-million at the end of his career? Cutch is the epitome of the guy we need to avoid: High cost contract, on the declining slope of his career. We'll be paying him for his previous performance and we'll get old man/bad knees performance. We need to trade him. He did us an AMAZING favor and found his swing just when we needed him to. Given the way this front-office operates, I think they will. I hope they don't worry about the fan reaction too much. If they do their job and get VALUE back for him, the fans will be happy again in a year or two, and for several years after that.
Seriously, put another name on Cutch. Imagine that, instead of him coming up through our minors, we just traded for him. Joe Smith from the Rangers. Great! Ride out his hot bat, maybe get to the post-season, right? I'd question the timing of trading for another piece, when it would have been better done in past years, but he has a hot bat, can't deny that. But would you REALLY want to sign him to a big-figure, several-year contract beyond that? Joe Smith, former base-stealing threat and MVP from the Rangers, now with bad knees and who mysteriously goes into season-long slumps?
Guess it all comes down to how you think he'll age. I honestly thought he'd age well, but the past 2-3 years have made me question that.
I disagree with your scouting of McCutchen. I don't know if they will extend him or not. But I feel he can get a ton if he is on the market. He has had one bad year (last year) in his career. He is in MVP form again this year. I can't believe you are missing it?
I dunno what his deal is. I feel like he SHOULD be a multiple MVP, a member of the 30/30 club, and be a dangerous hitter well into his late 30's - but I don't think he will. It's hard to predict such things, but I think his knees are gonna let him down and he'll be a DH/1st baseman in a few years as well.
I really do hope I'm wrong. I was looking forward to seeing him be part of the Pirates for most of his career, and being a serious threat at the plate through several NLCS and World Series. I'm gonna stick with what I think will happen though. Maybe I'm just stuck in half-empty mode, but I'd trade him if given the chance.
I'm gonna let off pushing that so much, though. It's not like what I say makes it more likely to happen, and I don't want to be too pushy about it. I'll just close with the hope that, if they do trade him, they get us some serious talent to restock the high minors and help us make it to the playoffs in the coming years.
And, of course, the best of luck to Cutch, either way.
There is no "deal" with him. He is having a season like his MVP seasons this year. Why don't you think 2016 was a fluke?
I don't know what they will do with him. I would love to keep him. But I do think he would bring back a huge return. Trading him now is not selling low.
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SammyKhalifa
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What also isn't a fluke though is that he could always go into another months-long abyss where he's one of the worst players on the team. I wonder what potential trade partners make of that.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
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4D7F73736755767F7277787F1E0 wrote: What also isn't a fluke though is that he could always go into another months-long abyss where he's one of the worst players on the team. I wonder what potential trade partners make of that.
So can any player. Harrison, Frazier and Freese are doing that now.
Four out of the last five years he was in the Top 5 in MVP voting. He can be there again at the end of this year.
So can any player. Harrison, Frazier and Freese are doing that now.
Four out of the last five years he was in the Top 5 in MVP voting. He can be there again at the end of this year.
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30020E0E1A280B020F0A0502630 wrote: What also isn't a fluke though is that he could always go into another months-long abyss where he's one of the worst players on the team. I wonder what potential trade partners make of that.
Teams trading at the deadline trade for performance NOW. As long as he doesn't go in the tank between now and the deadline, anyone wanting an outfielder would love to have Cutch. True, he could crash and burn at any minute, but so could any player.
He's getting paid 14.5 mil next year, but he has a $1 mil buyout if he tanks or they don't need him next year. He's about the PERFECT pickup - his bat is hot as hell right now, he has an extra year on his contract, and a fairly cheap buyout if things go south. All upside, little downside to him. If the FO does their job, he's worth a fortune.
Teams trading at the deadline trade for performance NOW. As long as he doesn't go in the tank between now and the deadline, anyone wanting an outfielder would love to have Cutch. True, he could crash and burn at any minute, but so could any player.
He's getting paid 14.5 mil next year, but he has a $1 mil buyout if he tanks or they don't need him next year. He's about the PERFECT pickup - his bat is hot as hell right now, he has an extra year on his contract, and a fairly cheap buyout if things go south. All upside, little downside to him. If the FO does their job, he's worth a fortune.
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79727A767372692C2A5D647C757272337E721D0 wrote: You're all out of your mind to trade Cole. His value is lower than ever with a bunch of dumb luck crazy bad HR/FB rates over half of this season. Trading him is madness. Look at his career numbers for 30 seconds please.
Who the heck else are you going to plug into this rotation? GLASNOW? Oh wait, Nick Kingham? Oooh Trevor Williams?
Come on, get real. Starting pitching is by far the single most expensive thing in the game. Thinking the pirates would (or even should) think about trading a cheap, effective starter with years of control left is off the reservation.
I'd trade Cole if someone offered the right return, but I agree - teams trade at the deadline for performance NOW. He's not exactly at the apex of his career. I WOULD trade him at the earliest opportunity(FOR VALUE, not just to do it), though, as I think what we see is what we will get - an erratic pitcher who will never live up to his amazing talent.
I'd trade Cutch in a hot second. His value will NEVER be higher. He's in his 30's and his knees are so bad he gave up stealing bases. They moved him out of center field. He went into the dumpster for A YEAR AND A HALF. Don't be sentimental. He WILL go back into the dumpster, and we'll be the biggest fools in baseball for not having taken advantage of his momentary return to form.
Spend multi-millions so you can erect a statue to an outfielder who stood at 1st, hit .220 and earned Oh-My-God-million at the end of his career? Cutch is the epitome of the guy we need to avoid: High cost contract, on the declining slope of his career. We'll be paying him for his previous performance and we'll get old man/bad knees performance. We need to trade him. He did us an AMAZING favor and found his swing just when we needed him to. Given the way this front-office operates, I think they will. I hope they don't worry about the fan reaction too much. If they do their job and get VALUE back for him, the fans will be happy again in a year or two, and for several years after that.
Seriously, put another name on Cutch. Imagine that, instead of him coming up through our minors, we just traded for him. Joe Smith from the Rangers. Great! Ride out his hot bat, maybe get to the post-season, right? I'd question the timing of trading for another piece, when it would have been better done in past years, but he has a hot bat, can't deny that. But would you REALLY want to sign him to a big-figure, several-year contract beyond that? Joe Smith, former base-stealing threat and MVP from the Rangers, now with bad knees and who mysteriously goes into season-long slumps?
Guess it all comes down to how you think he'll age. I honestly thought he'd age well, but the past 2-3 years have made me question that.
I disagree with your scouting of McCutchen. I don't know if they will extend him or not. But I feel he can get a ton if he is on the market. He has had one bad year (last year) in his career. He is in MVP form again this year. I can't believe you are missing it?
I dunno what his deal is. I feel like he SHOULD be a multiple MVP, a member of the 30/30 club, and be a dangerous hitter well into his late 30's - but I don't think he will. It's hard to predict such things, but I think his knees are gonna let him down and he'll be a DH/1st baseman in a few years as well.
I really do hope I'm wrong. I was looking forward to seeing him be part of the Pirates for most of his career, and being a serious threat at the plate through several NLCS and World Series. I'm gonna stick with what I think will happen though. Maybe I'm just stuck in half-empty mode, but I'd trade him if given the chance.
I'm gonna let off pushing that so much, though. It's not like what I say makes it more likely to happen, and I don't want to be too pushy about it. I'll just close with the hope that, if they do trade him, they get us some serious talent to restock the high minors and help us make it to the playoffs in the coming years.
And, of course, the best of luck to Cutch, either way.
There is no "deal" with him. He is having a season like his MVP seasons this year. Why don't you think 2016 was a fluke?
I don't know what they will do with him. I would love to keep him. But I do think he would bring back a huge return. Trading him now is not selling low.
Why don't I think 2016 was a fluke? The first half of 2017 is part of that.
I'm shocked and amazed that this happened to him. I thought he was the 2nd coming of Barry Bonds, minus the big head and PEDs. I thought he'd be a terror into his late 30's, a hall-of-famer. He seemed in great shape, very athletic. Now he's lost 1.5 years of his prime looking for his lost bat. I remember looking at Cutch, Marte, Polonco, and Cole starting, and wondering how many Pirates on the field at that moment might be future hall-of-famers. Shows what I know.
Anyone have thoughts on Cutch's knees? He all but gave up base-stealing, and his knees aren't getting younger. I have the idea that he has maybe 2 more seasons before he knees start calling him to 1st base or the DH, but it's not like i can have any hard data to back that up.
Yeah, I agree with you on trading him, at least as far as his return. He's just about the perfect mid-season trade candidate: Nearly all positives, no negatives.
Who the heck else are you going to plug into this rotation? GLASNOW? Oh wait, Nick Kingham? Oooh Trevor Williams?
Come on, get real. Starting pitching is by far the single most expensive thing in the game. Thinking the pirates would (or even should) think about trading a cheap, effective starter with years of control left is off the reservation.
I'd trade Cole if someone offered the right return, but I agree - teams trade at the deadline for performance NOW. He's not exactly at the apex of his career. I WOULD trade him at the earliest opportunity(FOR VALUE, not just to do it), though, as I think what we see is what we will get - an erratic pitcher who will never live up to his amazing talent.
I'd trade Cutch in a hot second. His value will NEVER be higher. He's in his 30's and his knees are so bad he gave up stealing bases. They moved him out of center field. He went into the dumpster for A YEAR AND A HALF. Don't be sentimental. He WILL go back into the dumpster, and we'll be the biggest fools in baseball for not having taken advantage of his momentary return to form.
Spend multi-millions so you can erect a statue to an outfielder who stood at 1st, hit .220 and earned Oh-My-God-million at the end of his career? Cutch is the epitome of the guy we need to avoid: High cost contract, on the declining slope of his career. We'll be paying him for his previous performance and we'll get old man/bad knees performance. We need to trade him. He did us an AMAZING favor and found his swing just when we needed him to. Given the way this front-office operates, I think they will. I hope they don't worry about the fan reaction too much. If they do their job and get VALUE back for him, the fans will be happy again in a year or two, and for several years after that.
Seriously, put another name on Cutch. Imagine that, instead of him coming up through our minors, we just traded for him. Joe Smith from the Rangers. Great! Ride out his hot bat, maybe get to the post-season, right? I'd question the timing of trading for another piece, when it would have been better done in past years, but he has a hot bat, can't deny that. But would you REALLY want to sign him to a big-figure, several-year contract beyond that? Joe Smith, former base-stealing threat and MVP from the Rangers, now with bad knees and who mysteriously goes into season-long slumps?
Guess it all comes down to how you think he'll age. I honestly thought he'd age well, but the past 2-3 years have made me question that.
I disagree with your scouting of McCutchen. I don't know if they will extend him or not. But I feel he can get a ton if he is on the market. He has had one bad year (last year) in his career. He is in MVP form again this year. I can't believe you are missing it?
I dunno what his deal is. I feel like he SHOULD be a multiple MVP, a member of the 30/30 club, and be a dangerous hitter well into his late 30's - but I don't think he will. It's hard to predict such things, but I think his knees are gonna let him down and he'll be a DH/1st baseman in a few years as well.
I really do hope I'm wrong. I was looking forward to seeing him be part of the Pirates for most of his career, and being a serious threat at the plate through several NLCS and World Series. I'm gonna stick with what I think will happen though. Maybe I'm just stuck in half-empty mode, but I'd trade him if given the chance.
I'm gonna let off pushing that so much, though. It's not like what I say makes it more likely to happen, and I don't want to be too pushy about it. I'll just close with the hope that, if they do trade him, they get us some serious talent to restock the high minors and help us make it to the playoffs in the coming years.
And, of course, the best of luck to Cutch, either way.
There is no "deal" with him. He is having a season like his MVP seasons this year. Why don't you think 2016 was a fluke?
I don't know what they will do with him. I would love to keep him. But I do think he would bring back a huge return. Trading him now is not selling low.
Why don't I think 2016 was a fluke? The first half of 2017 is part of that.
I'm shocked and amazed that this happened to him. I thought he was the 2nd coming of Barry Bonds, minus the big head and PEDs. I thought he'd be a terror into his late 30's, a hall-of-famer. He seemed in great shape, very athletic. Now he's lost 1.5 years of his prime looking for his lost bat. I remember looking at Cutch, Marte, Polonco, and Cole starting, and wondering how many Pirates on the field at that moment might be future hall-of-famers. Shows what I know.
Anyone have thoughts on Cutch's knees? He all but gave up base-stealing, and his knees aren't getting younger. I have the idea that he has maybe 2 more seasons before he knees start calling him to 1st base or the DH, but it's not like i can have any hard data to back that up.
Yeah, I agree with you on trading him, at least as far as his return. He's just about the perfect mid-season trade candidate: Nearly all positives, no negatives.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
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I am going to predict he will never play 1B in his career. As he gets slower, he will just move to RF.
I think he is still pretty fast. He isn't as fast as he used to be, but he is still above average when it comes to speed. He still runs from first to third as good as anyone. He had an infield hit Monday night that not many on the team beat out.
Imagine if his bat would have shown up in April? He would be on pace to have his greatest year ever. I'd rather keep him. Very tough decision.
I think he is still pretty fast. He isn't as fast as he used to be, but he is still above average when it comes to speed. He still runs from first to third as good as anyone. He had an infield hit Monday night that not many on the team beat out.
Imagine if his bat would have shown up in April? He would be on pace to have his greatest year ever. I'd rather keep him. Very tough decision.
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Yeah, I don't envy NH on this one. I don't know that there are too many teams buying bats, particularly outfielders. Lots of needs for pitching, some teams have a third base need. Catching is always in demand. But, I'm not sure there is a huge market out there for outfielders. Add to that the fact that we SHOULD have a decent team next year, especially if MVP Cutch is back. I have to wonder if NH wasn't secretly hoping the Brewers would knock us out of contention this week. Would have made this decision a heck of a lot easier.
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rucker59@gmail.com
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1F17142335103738560 wrote: Yeah, I don't envy NH on this one. I don't know that there are too many teams buying bats, particularly outfielders. Lots of needs for pitching, some teams have a third base need. Catching is always in demand. But, I'm not sure there is a huge market out there for outfielders. Add to that the fact that we SHOULD have a decent team next year, especially if MVP Cutch is back. I have to wonder if NH wasn't secretly hoping the Brewers would knock us out of contention this week. Would have made this decision a heck of a lot easier.
Should the Pirates sweep Neal has the biggest decision in his career. And this board will be ready to erupt. Let us hope for the sweep.
Should the Pirates sweep Neal has the biggest decision in his career. And this board will be ready to erupt. Let us hope for the sweep.
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Bobster21
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5D5A4C444A5D1A166F48424E4643014C40422F0 wrote: Yeah, I don't envy NH on this one. I don't know that there are too many teams buying bats, particularly outfielders. Lots of needs for pitching, some teams have a third base need. Catching is always in demand. But, I'm not sure there is a huge market out there for outfielders. Add to that the fact that we SHOULD have a decent team next year, especially if MVP Cutch is back. I have to wonder if NH wasn't secretly hoping the Brewers would knock us out of contention this week. Would have made this decision a heck of a lot easier.
Should the Pirates sweep Neal has the biggest decision in his career. And this board will be ready to erupt. Let us hope for the sweep.
I have to believe it's not just NH's call. If they sell and rebuild the next few years, payroll will be significantly smaller than if they keep what they've got and maybe even add next year to make a run at another post season appearance. I can't believe Nutting wouldn't influence such a decision. Either way he has to be on board with it. So I'm thinking there's a lot of conversion between NH, Nutting and Coonelly as they plan whatever they're going to do.
Should the Pirates sweep Neal has the biggest decision in his career. And this board will be ready to erupt. Let us hope for the sweep.
I have to believe it's not just NH's call. If they sell and rebuild the next few years, payroll will be significantly smaller than if they keep what they've got and maybe even add next year to make a run at another post season appearance. I can't believe Nutting wouldn't influence such a decision. Either way he has to be on board with it. So I'm thinking there's a lot of conversion between NH, Nutting and Coonelly as they plan whatever they're going to do.
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SammyKhalifa
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6A474A5B5C4D5A1A19280 wrote: Yeah, I don't envy NH on this one. I don't know that there are too many teams buying bats, particularly outfielders. Lots of needs for pitching, some teams have a third base need. Catching is always in demand. But, I'm not sure there is a huge market out there for outfielders. Add to that the fact that we SHOULD have a decent team next year, especially if MVP Cutch is back. I have to wonder if NH wasn't secretly hoping the Brewers would knock us out of contention this week. Would have made this decision a heck of a lot easier.
Should the Pirates sweep Neal has the biggest decision in his career. And this board will be ready to erupt. Let us hope for the sweep.
I have to believe it's not just NH's call. If they sell and rebuild the next few years, payroll will be significantly smaller than if they keep what they've got and maybe even add next year to make a run at another post season appearance. I can't believe Nutting wouldn't influence such a decision. Either way he has to be on board with it. So I'm thinking there's a lot of conversion between NH, Nutting and Coonelly as they plan whatever they're going to do.
I don't know. I think there's a >50% chance they take the cautious approach and only tinker on the edges, whether they fall out of it or not. I don't think that's driven by money though, just overabundance of caution.
Should the Pirates sweep Neal has the biggest decision in his career. And this board will be ready to erupt. Let us hope for the sweep.
I have to believe it's not just NH's call. If they sell and rebuild the next few years, payroll will be significantly smaller than if they keep what they've got and maybe even add next year to make a run at another post season appearance. I can't believe Nutting wouldn't influence such a decision. Either way he has to be on board with it. So I'm thinking there's a lot of conversion between NH, Nutting and Coonelly as they plan whatever they're going to do.
I don't know. I think there's a >50% chance they take the cautious approach and only tinker on the edges, whether they fall out of it or not. I don't think that's driven by money though, just overabundance of caution.