OnlyBucs

Bobster, you consider him a relief pitcher too?



Do you take consideration in his minor league numbers and the major league team he was on and the role he played?

6D666E6267667D383E497068616666276A66090 wrote: Bobster, you consider him a relief pitcher too?



Do you take consideration in his minor league numbers and the major league team he was on and the role he played?


Dog, your take on musgrove is inaccurate.   Bobster is correct.   The Astros are NOT doing with him anything I advocate with our young players...  They brought him up to start and he FAILED after a considerable look, spanning two seasons. Besides, we were talking about position players in that conversation not starting pitchers being used in the pen...so youre being either ignorant or dishonest in using that conversation here.



They wanted to win and began questioning his ABILITY to start (feel free to read about it)..  So moved him to the bullpen where he excelled. 



He is a major league relief pitcher with possible starting upside.   That's what was traded to us, not a starting pitcher. 



We are going to try him as a starter again, just like the Astros did in 30 starts where he failed badly.   Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.   Maybe somewhere in between?  Maybe a perfectly good and effective relief pitcher is going to end up a  back of the rotation starter? (Juan nicasio anyone?)



You don't get to claim that we traded for a starter and be accurate, no.   No way.   We traded for a relief pitcher with possible starting upside.



Do you believe that Musgrove and Moran (or their equivalents) would have not been available with a Cole trade made 7/31?  That's the question.. 

That's fine. It's how you look at it. I look at it that the Astros were a good team and couldn't fight through the struggles. So, they moved him to the bullpen. He was always projected as a starter.



I have no problem trading for blocked players. I wouldn't be surprised if a few current Pirates pitchers do as well as Cole did in 2017. I like Cole, he has great stuff. But he also had his worst year. I don't know the best time to trade him. It could be risky in hope 2017 was a fluke season. Many here think Cole stinks.

Dog, I agree with Dmetz' summary. The jury's still out on Musgrove. Musgrove failed as a starter during the 1st half of 2017 when he exclusively started and posted a 6.12 ERA. 1.513 WHIP and 16 HRs in 78 IP. In the 2nd half he was exclusively a reliever and posted a dazzling 1.44 ERA, 0.862 WHIP and just 2 HRs in 31.1 IP.



Doesn't matter how we classify him because he's going to get a chance to start. He's still young at 25. What we know for sure is that he's capable of being used as a starter, failed in that role last year and excelled last year in the BP. Hopefully, he will transition back to starting and find success. If nothing else he should be a quality BP arm but lets hope for more.

38333B373233286D6B1C253D343333723F335C0 wrote: That's fine. It's how you look at it. I look at it that the Astros were a good team and couldn't fight through the struggles. So, they moved him to the bullpen. He was always projected as a starter.



I have no problem trading for blocked players. I wouldn't be surprised if a few current Pirates pitchers do as well as Cole did in 2017. I like Cole, he has great stuff. But he also had his worst year. I don't know the best time to trade him. It could be risky in hope 2017 was a fluke season. Many here think Cole stinks.


Nope. Not letting you do that.  He was not blocked.  That is in your mind.  That's what you're selling to yourself.   It's not true.   He failed. 



Musgrove was no more blocked than Tyler Glasnow is blocked.  Moran is the one that was blocked / passed over.

464F475658220 wrote: That's fine. It's how you look at it. I look at it that the Astros were a good team and couldn't fight through the struggles. So, they moved him to the bullpen. He was always projected as a starter.



I have no problem trading for blocked players. I wouldn't be surprised if a few current Pirates pitchers do as well as Cole did in 2017. I like Cole, he has great stuff. But he also had his worst year. I don't know the best time to trade him. It could be risky in hope 2017 was a fluke season. Many here think Cole stinks.


Nope. Not letting you do that.  He was not blocked.  That is in your mind.  That's what you're selling to yourself.   It's not true.   He failed. 



Musgrove was no more blocked than Tyler Glasnow is blocked.   Moran is the one that was blocked / passed over. 


I guess t depends on how you look at it. Musgrove was moved to the BP because of his struggles, not because he was blocked. His replacement was 30 year old journeyman Collin McHugh who was recalled from AA to fill that slot in the rotation. Maybe he would have received another chance to start this year if they hadn't subsequently acquired Verlander and Cole. So I suppose an argument could be made that he was now blocked from any chance to start, if there was going to be one, which we don't know. OTOH, he became one of their top relievers last year, so he certainly wasn't blocked there.

Question was Musgrove and Moran.



Yes, Moran was blocked. Bad time to get hurt for him. I also think Musgrove wouldn't have started with the acquisitions. Cole is a known talent. Musgrove has questions, no doubt.

676C64686D6C773234437A626B6C6C2D606C030 wrote: Question was Musgrove and Moran.



Yes, Moran was blocked. Bad time to get hurt for him. I also think Musgrove wouldn't have started with the acquisitions. Cole is a known talent. Musgrove has questions, no doubt.


The Cole deal is a bust if Musgrove isn't able to be a solid member of the Pirates rotation and (not or) Moran is not an above average thirdbaseman.