Bobster,
I agree. The word "Dirty" is clouding the issue. I don't think it was dirty. His spikes were down and he was hooking the lower leg, below the knee.
It was definitely illegal! no doubt to me.
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
343F373B3E3F246167102931383F3F7E333F500 wrote: [highlight]For how "tough" [/highlight]AJ Burnett was he never retaliated either. I just hope hard slides all around the next two days. I would love to see a hard slide into first base or a shoulder thrown. Make it even worse so the league recognizes it. It was a force play, no reason to slide.
Don't forget that the sliding rule into the bases wasn't because of the Cubs and Kang. It was changed due to Chase Utley's hard slide.
So I guess AJ never helped change the locker room. Do you argue just to argue?
Don't forget that the sliding rule into the bases wasn't because of the Cubs and Kang. It was changed due to Chase Utley's hard slide.
So I guess AJ never helped change the locker room. Do you argue just to argue?
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
78796273652522160 wrote: [highlight]For how "tough" [/highlight]AJ Burnett was he never retaliated either. I just hope hard slides all around the next two days. I would love to see a hard slide into first base or a shoulder thrown. Make it even worse so the league recognizes it. It was a force play, no reason to slide.
Don't forget that the sliding rule into the bases wasn't because of the Cubs and Kang. It was changed due to Chase Utley's hard slide.
So I guess AJ never helped change the locker room. Do you argue just to argue?
No, stay on topic. Burnett never retaliated.
Don't forget that the sliding rule into the bases wasn't because of the Cubs and Kang. It was changed due to Chase Utley's hard slide.
So I guess AJ never helped change the locker room. Do you argue just to argue?
No, stay on topic. Burnett never retaliated.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
7C757D6C62180 wrote: Bobster,
I agree. The word "Dirty" is clouding the issue. I don't think it was dirty. His spikes were down and he was hooking the lower leg, below the knee.
It was definitely illegal! no doubt to me.
I disagree. It was dirty. Rizzo was already out, it was a force play, his sliding was not him getting out of the way. He purposely tried to slide into the catcher to break up a play. He had no business being where he was unless he was trying to make contact with the catcher which is a newer rule.
I agree. The word "Dirty" is clouding the issue. I don't think it was dirty. His spikes were down and he was hooking the lower leg, below the knee.
It was definitely illegal! no doubt to me.
I disagree. It was dirty. Rizzo was already out, it was a force play, his sliding was not him getting out of the way. He purposely tried to slide into the catcher to break up a play. He had no business being where he was unless he was trying to make contact with the catcher which is a newer rule.
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
Here is a question: Runner on first and Polanco is up and the shift is on. Polanco hits a dribbler that they throw to first as the runner rounds second to beat the ss running to cover third. Rizzo is going to catch and throw immediately. Would it be dirty/illegal for Polanco to slide into first, on the left side of the bag but with his hand able to touch the base in order to disrupt the throw or is that perfect baseball? I know it isn't a perfect comparison but Diaz was essentially a first baseman with how that played out.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
2F272433252529460 wrote: Here is a question: Runner on first and Polanco is up and the shift is on. Polanco hits a dribbler that they throw to first as the runner rounds second to beat the ss running to cover third. Rizzo is going to catch and throw immediately. Would it be dirty/illegal for Polanco to slide into first, on the left side of the bag but with his hand able to touch the base in order to disrupt the throw or is that perfect baseball? I know it isn't a perfect comparison but Diaz was essentially a first baseman with how that played out.
It would be legal. I would consider it still dirty. This is the play I want to see happen. Good example.
Don't forget that breaking up double plays at second base was also protecting that runner and getting them out of the way of the throw. At least, it can be sold as that. Rizzo was not doing that. He intentionally went out of his way to slide into Diaz. The umpire and league office were wrong based on their own rules. Rizzo is 6'3". He can slide eight feet plus away from home plate and still touch it with his hand.
It would be legal. I would consider it still dirty. This is the play I want to see happen. Good example.
Don't forget that breaking up double plays at second base was also protecting that runner and getting them out of the way of the throw. At least, it can be sold as that. Rizzo was not doing that. He intentionally went out of his way to slide into Diaz. The umpire and league office were wrong based on their own rules. Rizzo is 6'3". He can slide eight feet plus away from home plate and still touch it with his hand.
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
Maybe I'm soft, but I wouldn't retaliate. Not at this stage of the game, anyway. Freese was right to be upset. It should have been done yesterday. But, it wasn't. Too late now, IMHO. I just wish the Pirates would win a game. I have to keep telling myself that it's never as bad as it seems when things are going poorly, and never as good as it seems when they're going well.
We could really use a win tonight!
We could really use a win tonight!
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
575C54585D5C470204734A525B5C5C1D505C330 wrote: Bobster,
I agree. The word "Dirty" is clouding the issue. I don't think it was dirty. His spikes were down and he was hooking the lower leg, below the knee.
It was definitely illegal! no doubt to me.
I disagree. It was dirty. Rizzo was already out, it was a force play, his sliding was not him getting out of the way. He purposely tried to slide into the catcher to break up a play. He had no business being where he was unless he was trying to make contact with the catcher which is a newer rule.
Breaking up a double play wasn't illegal until a couple years ago. They made the play illegal. Based on 2014 rules, that's a legal play and because cleats were down, contact was below the knee, and the body hit the dirt well before contact with the defender, it doesn't look like a dirty slide to me. Looks like a slide by a guy trying to break up a double play
I agree. The word "Dirty" is clouding the issue. I don't think it was dirty. His spikes were down and he was hooking the lower leg, below the knee.
It was definitely illegal! no doubt to me.
I disagree. It was dirty. Rizzo was already out, it was a force play, his sliding was not him getting out of the way. He purposely tried to slide into the catcher to break up a play. He had no business being where he was unless he was trying to make contact with the catcher which is a newer rule.
Breaking up a double play wasn't illegal until a couple years ago. They made the play illegal. Based on 2014 rules, that's a legal play and because cleats were down, contact was below the knee, and the body hit the dirt well before contact with the defender, it doesn't look like a dirty slide to me. Looks like a slide by a guy trying to break up a double play
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
For me, there is a huge difference between breaking up a double play at second and doing what Rizzo did. Every middle infielder from little league up is taught the footwork to get out of the way on a DP because the runner is going to try and mess you up. You move. You jump. There are a number of different footwork patterns for doing this. Middle infielders are aware.
Catchers are not. Catchers are taught to do exactly what Diaz did because runners have no business head (or ankle) hunting catchers. How far was Diaz supposed to move before he was "safe" to make a throw? Was he supposed to jump like a SS? With his gear on? The reality is, it is a different play at the plate compared to 2nd base. I'd tell my kid to go in hard to a SS/2bman. I'd tell him to avoid a catcher. Esp if the catcher did what they are supposed to do and got out of the way.
Rizzo crossed the line.
Catchers are not. Catchers are taught to do exactly what Diaz did because runners have no business head (or ankle) hunting catchers. How far was Diaz supposed to move before he was "safe" to make a throw? Was he supposed to jump like a SS? With his gear on? The reality is, it is a different play at the plate compared to 2nd base. I'd tell my kid to go in hard to a SS/2bman. I'd tell him to avoid a catcher. Esp if the catcher did what they are supposed to do and got out of the way.
Rizzo crossed the line.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
Can legal plays still be considered dirty? What about in certain circumstances?
I thougth Diaz said it best: "I understand that there's old-school baseball, but we're not in old-school baseball anymore. There are new rules and things we've submitted to, and even us as catchers have mentally prepared ourselves for, and I don't agree that that's a legal slide."
I thougth Diaz said it best: "I understand that there's old-school baseball, but we're not in old-school baseball anymore. There are new rules and things we've submitted to, and even us as catchers have mentally prepared ourselves for, and I don't agree that that's a legal slide."