NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
Keep in mind also, Littlefield was able to find another job in baseball.
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
052322352333400 wrote: Wouldn’t it be a surprise if NH was contacted to interview for the vacant Boston GM position. Neal is originally from the New England area. If he was hired for that position, I would expect a new GM would want to hire a new Pirate manager, and some other front office positions would change.
Neal would never take that job. He’s committed to winning a WS for The Pirates....
I can't imagine what on NH's resume would inspire any other organization to hire him.
Getting Reynolds for Cutch? Idk ... I don't see much at all.
I don't see much either. If that trade is the only thing on his resume then yeah, sure. But do you honestly believe that deal typifies NH's tenure? Should we now forget all about the Archer deal? The Cole deal? Giving away prospects to bribe Toronto into taking Liriano and getting nothing more than Drew Hutchison in exchange? Giving Dickerson to the Phillies? Drafting Newman #1 to play SS, then thinking he needed to trade Luplow for Gonzalez to play SS, then realizing he didn't need Gonzalez after all, waiving Nicasio to save $600,000, filling a 1B hole with Jaso, filling a rotation hole with Vogelsong, signing Chisenhall? IMHO, if NH interviewed for another GM job he would have a difficult time making the case that the Cutch deal is what typified his tenure with the Pirates.
The only argument I can see NH making in an interview is that my goal was to meet financial targets and I did it every year.
If your goal is to win championships, I can do that. I know how to meet goals.(maybe say something like I follow ownerships instructions).
Folks really see no merit for NH to get the Boston GM job? Really?
Yeah, he has made some trades that went bad. He's also made some good trades. His drafting is suspect and his development is bad. However, that "could" be attributed to the finances available. It takes money to hire the best scouts. It takes money to hire the best analytics and development people. Because he has no room for error, every mistake is amplified.
I think that NH would have a compelling argument telling the Red Sox that he ended a 20 year losing streak that spanned multiple GMs. He inherited a terrible system and built it into a very good system. At the MLB level, he had three teams that didn't do great in the playoffs, but were dominant regular season teams. If you go by the Billy Bean mantra that the playoffs are a crapshoot, that is compelling stuff on NH's resume.
Over the last 4 years, they haven't been a playoff team, but they have been around .500. In NH's defense, that isn't too bad considering his payroll allocation puts him in the bottom 3 of all baseball. If payroll equaled wins, the Pirates should always be one of the worst teams in baseball. In NH's time, they have always outperformed payroll (except this year). And he has often outperformed it by a wide margin.
If I'm Boston, I'd be intrigued about having a GM who had to maximize every dollar and found some success now shifting over to a system that had a lot more resources. If he could do that with the Pirates, what could he do with Boston?
Neal would never take that job. He’s committed to winning a WS for The Pirates....
I can't imagine what on NH's resume would inspire any other organization to hire him.
Getting Reynolds for Cutch? Idk ... I don't see much at all.
I don't see much either. If that trade is the only thing on his resume then yeah, sure. But do you honestly believe that deal typifies NH's tenure? Should we now forget all about the Archer deal? The Cole deal? Giving away prospects to bribe Toronto into taking Liriano and getting nothing more than Drew Hutchison in exchange? Giving Dickerson to the Phillies? Drafting Newman #1 to play SS, then thinking he needed to trade Luplow for Gonzalez to play SS, then realizing he didn't need Gonzalez after all, waiving Nicasio to save $600,000, filling a 1B hole with Jaso, filling a rotation hole with Vogelsong, signing Chisenhall? IMHO, if NH interviewed for another GM job he would have a difficult time making the case that the Cutch deal is what typified his tenure with the Pirates.
The only argument I can see NH making in an interview is that my goal was to meet financial targets and I did it every year.
If your goal is to win championships, I can do that. I know how to meet goals.(maybe say something like I follow ownerships instructions).
Folks really see no merit for NH to get the Boston GM job? Really?
Yeah, he has made some trades that went bad. He's also made some good trades. His drafting is suspect and his development is bad. However, that "could" be attributed to the finances available. It takes money to hire the best scouts. It takes money to hire the best analytics and development people. Because he has no room for error, every mistake is amplified.
I think that NH would have a compelling argument telling the Red Sox that he ended a 20 year losing streak that spanned multiple GMs. He inherited a terrible system and built it into a very good system. At the MLB level, he had three teams that didn't do great in the playoffs, but were dominant regular season teams. If you go by the Billy Bean mantra that the playoffs are a crapshoot, that is compelling stuff on NH's resume.
Over the last 4 years, they haven't been a playoff team, but they have been around .500. In NH's defense, that isn't too bad considering his payroll allocation puts him in the bottom 3 of all baseball. If payroll equaled wins, the Pirates should always be one of the worst teams in baseball. In NH's time, they have always outperformed payroll (except this year). And he has often outperformed it by a wide margin.
If I'm Boston, I'd be intrigued about having a GM who had to maximize every dollar and found some success now shifting over to a system that had a lot more resources. If he could do that with the Pirates, what could he do with Boston?
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
465B7F7D73160 wrote: Wouldn’t it be a surprise if NH was contacted to interview for the vacant Boston GM position. Neal is originally from the New England area. If he was hired for that position, I would expect a new GM would want to hire a new Pirate manager, and some other front office positions would change.
Neal would never take that job. He’s committed to winning a WS for The Pirates....
I can't imagine what on NH's resume would inspire any other organization to hire him.
Getting Reynolds for Cutch? Idk ... I don't see much at all.
I don't see much either. If that trade is the only thing on his resume then yeah, sure. But do you honestly believe that deal typifies NH's tenure? Should we now forget all about the Archer deal? The Cole deal? Giving away prospects to bribe Toronto into taking Liriano and getting nothing more than Drew Hutchison in exchange? Giving Dickerson to the Phillies? Drafting Newman #1 to play SS, then thinking he needed to trade Luplow for Gonzalez to play SS, then realizing he didn't need Gonzalez after all, waiving Nicasio to save $600,000, filling a 1B hole with Jaso, filling a rotation hole with Vogelsong, signing Chisenhall? IMHO, if NH interviewed for another GM job he would have a difficult time making the case that the Cutch deal is what typified his tenure with the Pirates.
The only argument I can see NH making in an interview is that my goal was to meet financial targets and I did it every year.
If your goal is to win championships, I can do that. I know how to meet goals.(maybe say something like I follow ownerships instructions).
Folks really see no merit for NH to get the Boston GM job? Really?
Yeah, he has made some trades that went bad. He's also made some good trades. His drafting is suspect and his development is bad. However, that "could" be attributed to the finances available. It takes money to hire the best scouts. It takes money to hire the best analytics and development people. Because he has no room for error, every mistake is amplified.
I think that NH would have a compelling argument telling the Red Sox that he ended a 20 year losing streak that spanned multiple GMs. He inherited a terrible system and built it into a very good system. At the MLB level, he had three teams that didn't do great in the playoffs, but were dominant regular season teams. If you go by the Billy Bean mantra that the playoffs are a crapshoot, that is compelling stuff on NH's resume.
Over the last 4 years, they haven't been a playoff team, but they have been around .500. In NH's defense, that isn't too bad considering his payroll allocation puts him in the bottom 3 of all baseball. If payroll equaled wins, the Pirates should always be one of the worst teams in baseball. In NH's time, they have always outperformed payroll (except this year). And he has often outperformed it by a wide margin.
If I'm Boston, I'd be intrigued about having a GM who had to maximize every dollar and found some success now shifting over to a system that had a lot more resources. If he could do that with the Pirates, what could he do with Boston?
I think if Boston wants to interview him it will confirm he is a pretty respected baseball man.
Neal would never take that job. He’s committed to winning a WS for The Pirates....
I can't imagine what on NH's resume would inspire any other organization to hire him.
Getting Reynolds for Cutch? Idk ... I don't see much at all.
I don't see much either. If that trade is the only thing on his resume then yeah, sure. But do you honestly believe that deal typifies NH's tenure? Should we now forget all about the Archer deal? The Cole deal? Giving away prospects to bribe Toronto into taking Liriano and getting nothing more than Drew Hutchison in exchange? Giving Dickerson to the Phillies? Drafting Newman #1 to play SS, then thinking he needed to trade Luplow for Gonzalez to play SS, then realizing he didn't need Gonzalez after all, waiving Nicasio to save $600,000, filling a 1B hole with Jaso, filling a rotation hole with Vogelsong, signing Chisenhall? IMHO, if NH interviewed for another GM job he would have a difficult time making the case that the Cutch deal is what typified his tenure with the Pirates.
The only argument I can see NH making in an interview is that my goal was to meet financial targets and I did it every year.
If your goal is to win championships, I can do that. I know how to meet goals.(maybe say something like I follow ownerships instructions).
Folks really see no merit for NH to get the Boston GM job? Really?
Yeah, he has made some trades that went bad. He's also made some good trades. His drafting is suspect and his development is bad. However, that "could" be attributed to the finances available. It takes money to hire the best scouts. It takes money to hire the best analytics and development people. Because he has no room for error, every mistake is amplified.
I think that NH would have a compelling argument telling the Red Sox that he ended a 20 year losing streak that spanned multiple GMs. He inherited a terrible system and built it into a very good system. At the MLB level, he had three teams that didn't do great in the playoffs, but were dominant regular season teams. If you go by the Billy Bean mantra that the playoffs are a crapshoot, that is compelling stuff on NH's resume.
Over the last 4 years, they haven't been a playoff team, but they have been around .500. In NH's defense, that isn't too bad considering his payroll allocation puts him in the bottom 3 of all baseball. If payroll equaled wins, the Pirates should always be one of the worst teams in baseball. In NH's time, they have always outperformed payroll (except this year). And he has often outperformed it by a wide margin.
If I'm Boston, I'd be intrigued about having a GM who had to maximize every dollar and found some success now shifting over to a system that had a lot more resources. If he could do that with the Pirates, what could he do with Boston?
I think if Boston wants to interview him it will confirm he is a pretty respected baseball man.
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rucker59@gmail.com
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
113736213727540 wrote: Wouldn’t it be a surprise if NH was contacted to interview for the vacant Boston GM position. Neal is originally from the New England area. If he was hired for that position, I would expect a new GM would want to hire a new Pirate manager, and some other front office positions would change.
Neal would never take that job. He’s committed to winning a WS for The Pirates....
I can't imagine what on NH's resume would inspire any other organization to hire him.
Getting Reynolds for Cutch? Idk ... I don't see much at all.
I don't see much either. If that trade is the only thing on his resume then yeah, sure. But do you honestly believe that deal typifies NH's tenure? Should we now forget all about the Archer deal? The Cole deal? Giving away prospects to bribe Toronto into taking Liriano and getting nothing more than Drew Hutchison in exchange? Giving Dickerson to the Phillies? Drafting Newman #1 to play SS, then thinking he needed to trade Luplow for Gonzalez to play SS, then realizing he didn't need Gonzalez after all, waiving Nicasio to save $600,000, filling a 1B hole with Jaso, filling a rotation hole with Vogelsong, signing Chisenhall? IMHO, if NH interviewed for another GM job he would have a difficult time making the case that the Cutch deal is what typified his tenure with the Pirates.
The only argument I can see NH making in an interview is that my goal was to meet financial targets and I did it every year.
If your goal is to win championships, I can do that. I know how to meet goals.(maybe say something like I follow ownerships instructions).
Folks really see no merit for NH to get the Boston GM job? Really?
Yeah, he has made some trades that went bad. He's also made some good trades. His drafting is suspect and his development is bad. However, that "could" be attributed to the finances available. It takes money to hire the best scouts. It takes money to hire the best analytics and development people. Because he has no room for error, every mistake is amplified.
I think that NH would have a compelling argument telling the Red Sox that he ended a 20 year losing streak that spanned multiple GMs. He inherited a terrible system and built it into a very good system. At the MLB level, he had three teams that didn't do great in the playoffs, but were dominant regular season teams. If you go by the Billy Bean mantra that the playoffs are a crapshoot, that is compelling stuff on NH's resume.
Over the last 4 years, they haven't been a playoff team, but they have been around .500. In NH's defense, that isn't too bad considering his payroll allocation puts him in the bottom 3 of all baseball. If payroll equaled wins, the Pirates should always be one of the worst teams in baseball. In NH's time, they have always outperformed payroll (except this year). And he has often outperformed it by a wide margin.
If I'm Boston, I'd be intrigued about having a GM who had to maximize every dollar and found some success now shifting over to a system that had a lot more resources. If he could do that with the Pirates, what could he do with Boston?
I think if Boston wants to interview him it will confirm he is a pretty respected baseball man.
PMike makes an interesting argument: Neal has out preformed payroll every year except this year. Probably this year he’s right where he should be record-wise based on payroll. Actually I think he has a better team then the record indicates.
So that raises a really good question: he’s had pretty decent teams every year, a few really good ones, and even now a foundation that is pretty darn good, despite A LOT of pretty obvious bad to terrible moves and developmental failures. So how as he done as well as he has?
Is he better than we give him credit for or worse then his record indicates?
Neal would never take that job. He’s committed to winning a WS for The Pirates....
I can't imagine what on NH's resume would inspire any other organization to hire him.
Getting Reynolds for Cutch? Idk ... I don't see much at all.
I don't see much either. If that trade is the only thing on his resume then yeah, sure. But do you honestly believe that deal typifies NH's tenure? Should we now forget all about the Archer deal? The Cole deal? Giving away prospects to bribe Toronto into taking Liriano and getting nothing more than Drew Hutchison in exchange? Giving Dickerson to the Phillies? Drafting Newman #1 to play SS, then thinking he needed to trade Luplow for Gonzalez to play SS, then realizing he didn't need Gonzalez after all, waiving Nicasio to save $600,000, filling a 1B hole with Jaso, filling a rotation hole with Vogelsong, signing Chisenhall? IMHO, if NH interviewed for another GM job he would have a difficult time making the case that the Cutch deal is what typified his tenure with the Pirates.
The only argument I can see NH making in an interview is that my goal was to meet financial targets and I did it every year.
If your goal is to win championships, I can do that. I know how to meet goals.(maybe say something like I follow ownerships instructions).
Folks really see no merit for NH to get the Boston GM job? Really?
Yeah, he has made some trades that went bad. He's also made some good trades. His drafting is suspect and his development is bad. However, that "could" be attributed to the finances available. It takes money to hire the best scouts. It takes money to hire the best analytics and development people. Because he has no room for error, every mistake is amplified.
I think that NH would have a compelling argument telling the Red Sox that he ended a 20 year losing streak that spanned multiple GMs. He inherited a terrible system and built it into a very good system. At the MLB level, he had three teams that didn't do great in the playoffs, but were dominant regular season teams. If you go by the Billy Bean mantra that the playoffs are a crapshoot, that is compelling stuff on NH's resume.
Over the last 4 years, they haven't been a playoff team, but they have been around .500. In NH's defense, that isn't too bad considering his payroll allocation puts him in the bottom 3 of all baseball. If payroll equaled wins, the Pirates should always be one of the worst teams in baseball. In NH's time, they have always outperformed payroll (except this year). And he has often outperformed it by a wide margin.
If I'm Boston, I'd be intrigued about having a GM who had to maximize every dollar and found some success now shifting over to a system that had a lot more resources. If he could do that with the Pirates, what could he do with Boston?
I think if Boston wants to interview him it will confirm he is a pretty respected baseball man.
PMike makes an interesting argument: Neal has out preformed payroll every year except this year. Probably this year he’s right where he should be record-wise based on payroll. Actually I think he has a better team then the record indicates.
So that raises a really good question: he’s had pretty decent teams every year, a few really good ones, and even now a foundation that is pretty darn good, despite A LOT of pretty obvious bad to terrible moves and developmental failures. So how as he done as well as he has?
Is he better than we give him credit for or worse then his record indicates?
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
6C414C5D5A4B5C1C1F2E0 wrote: Wouldn’t it be a surprise if NH was contacted to interview for the vacant Boston GM position. Neal is originally from the New England area. If he was hired for that position, I would expect a new GM would want to hire a new Pirate manager, and some other front office positions would change.
Neal would never take that job. He’s committed to winning a WS for The Pirates....
I can't imagine what on NH's resume would inspire any other organization to hire him.
Getting Reynolds for Cutch? Idk ... I don't see much at all.
I don't see much either. If that trade is the only thing on his resume then yeah, sure. But do you honestly believe that deal typifies NH's tenure? Should we now forget all about the Archer deal? The Cole deal? Giving away prospects to bribe Toronto into taking Liriano and getting nothing more than Drew Hutchison in exchange? Giving Dickerson to the Phillies? Drafting Newman #1 to play SS, then thinking he needed to trade Luplow for Gonzalez to play SS, then realizing he didn't need Gonzalez after all, waiving Nicasio to save $600,000, filling a 1B hole with Jaso, filling a rotation hole with Vogelsong, signing Chisenhall? IMHO, if NH interviewed for another GM job he would have a difficult time making the case that the Cutch deal is what typified his tenure with the Pirates.
I was joking with the Cutch comment. In all seriousness, that is NH's sole win absent making lucky reclamation project signs of AJB, Liriano the first time and trading Melancon for Vasquez. He has made some literally foolish deals. The deal with Tampa he traded 2.50 for Archer who was worth .75 and trending down. That deal he made was the cost of Archer two years prior to the deal, but not at the time. The Cole deal - he tried quantity over quality. Moran is serviceable. He has done a lot better. Musgrove has flashes, Feliz might be figuring out something, but that isn't a good deal. The Toronto deal was mind boggling. Not trading Nicasio when he could have gotten something in return, but waiving him instead.
Just for S and G's, I'd be interested to see who lines up for this gig if NH would leave for another job or get canned. I think its pretty much clear to everyone our owner sucks and doesn't care about winning. How would a good baseball mind have interest. Would that be a good gig for an Assistant GM?
Neal would never take that job. He’s committed to winning a WS for The Pirates....
I can't imagine what on NH's resume would inspire any other organization to hire him.
Getting Reynolds for Cutch? Idk ... I don't see much at all.
I don't see much either. If that trade is the only thing on his resume then yeah, sure. But do you honestly believe that deal typifies NH's tenure? Should we now forget all about the Archer deal? The Cole deal? Giving away prospects to bribe Toronto into taking Liriano and getting nothing more than Drew Hutchison in exchange? Giving Dickerson to the Phillies? Drafting Newman #1 to play SS, then thinking he needed to trade Luplow for Gonzalez to play SS, then realizing he didn't need Gonzalez after all, waiving Nicasio to save $600,000, filling a 1B hole with Jaso, filling a rotation hole with Vogelsong, signing Chisenhall? IMHO, if NH interviewed for another GM job he would have a difficult time making the case that the Cutch deal is what typified his tenure with the Pirates.
I was joking with the Cutch comment. In all seriousness, that is NH's sole win absent making lucky reclamation project signs of AJB, Liriano the first time and trading Melancon for Vasquez. He has made some literally foolish deals. The deal with Tampa he traded 2.50 for Archer who was worth .75 and trending down. That deal he made was the cost of Archer two years prior to the deal, but not at the time. The Cole deal - he tried quantity over quality. Moran is serviceable. He has done a lot better. Musgrove has flashes, Feliz might be figuring out something, but that isn't a good deal. The Toronto deal was mind boggling. Not trading Nicasio when he could have gotten something in return, but waiving him instead.
Just for S and G's, I'd be interested to see who lines up for this gig if NH would leave for another job or get canned. I think its pretty much clear to everyone our owner sucks and doesn't care about winning. How would a good baseball mind have interest. Would that be a good gig for an Assistant GM?
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
Does Nutting care enough about baseball to make a change?
(Didn't the league set him up with Coonley?)
(Didn't the league set him up with Coonley?)
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
70575C7F320 wrote: Does Nutting care enough about baseball to make a change?
(Didn't the league set him up with Coonley?)
Maybe my S & G comment was playing along and NH is named the GM of the Red Sox (which he won't be).
(Didn't the league set him up with Coonley?)
Maybe my S & G comment was playing along and NH is named the GM of the Red Sox (which he won't be).
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ArnoldRothstein
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
My nightmare scenario if NH left is that Hurdle would get bumped up.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3488
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
03302C2D2E26102D362A3136272B2C420 wrote: My nightmare scenario if NH left is that Hurdle would get bumped up.
Hurdle is not the GM type. That would never happen. I would hope they would bring in a new set of eyes, but they just may promote Kyle Stark.
Hurdle is not the GM type. That would never happen. I would hope they would bring in a new set of eyes, but they just may promote Kyle Stark.
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
527F72636475622221100 wrote: Wouldn’t it be a surprise if NH was contacted to interview for the vacant Boston GM position. Neal is originally from the New England area. If he was hired for that position, I would expect a new GM would want to hire a new Pirate manager, and some other front office positions would change.
Neal would never take that job. He’s committed to winning a WS for The Pirates....
I can't imagine what on NH's resume would inspire any other organization to hire him.
Getting Reynolds for Cutch? Idk ... I don't see much at all.
I don't see much either. If that trade is the only thing on his resume then yeah, sure. But do you honestly believe that deal typifies NH's tenure? Should we now forget all about the Archer deal? The Cole deal? Giving away prospects to bribe Toronto into taking Liriano and getting nothing more than Drew Hutchison in exchange? Giving Dickerson to the Phillies? Drafting Newman #1 to play SS, then thinking he needed to trade Luplow for Gonzalez to play SS, then realizing he didn't need Gonzalez after all, waiving Nicasio to save $600,000, filling a 1B hole with Jaso, filling a rotation hole with Vogelsong, signing Chisenhall? IMHO, if NH interviewed for another GM job he would have a difficult time making the case that the Cutch deal is what typified his tenure with the Pirates.
He also had a MLB team play an entire season with 2 real OF's.
Neal would never take that job. He’s committed to winning a WS for The Pirates....
I can't imagine what on NH's resume would inspire any other organization to hire him.
Getting Reynolds for Cutch? Idk ... I don't see much at all.
I don't see much either. If that trade is the only thing on his resume then yeah, sure. But do you honestly believe that deal typifies NH's tenure? Should we now forget all about the Archer deal? The Cole deal? Giving away prospects to bribe Toronto into taking Liriano and getting nothing more than Drew Hutchison in exchange? Giving Dickerson to the Phillies? Drafting Newman #1 to play SS, then thinking he needed to trade Luplow for Gonzalez to play SS, then realizing he didn't need Gonzalez after all, waiving Nicasio to save $600,000, filling a 1B hole with Jaso, filling a rotation hole with Vogelsong, signing Chisenhall? IMHO, if NH interviewed for another GM job he would have a difficult time making the case that the Cutch deal is what typified his tenure with the Pirates.
He also had a MLB team play an entire season with 2 real OF's.