1E091F283E3E325D0 wrote: So, by my count, here's where we're at:
Regardless...put all this together, and they're over slot by $100,200. Which also means they can spend an additional $619,500 over their allotted amount (at a 75% tax) without losing draft picks.
In other words, they have $2,241,200 to play with to sign White, Kellington, and Bishop. I assume those three are the priority. But hey...so far, so good.
Many, many thanks to this site for keeping things up to date. https://pirates.pittsburghbaseball.com/2021draft/
I think they have a little more ($125k) if you count Bishop and the $125k they can pay him before using up bonus pool. But at this point, I think our most likely outcomes are that we get White, or we get Kellington and Bishop. Given what they had to know going into day 2 of the draft about the bonuses to be paid to Solometo and Chandler, it doesn't seem possible they could have believed they would have enough to get White and Bishop. I think Kellington's ask might have increased too complicating matters more. I'll be happy to see all three signed and be absolutely wrong.
Difficulty is that with Kellington and White both being in the top ten, if they don't sign, they lose that bonus money. I actually think Kellington could be key here. He's a high school guy, so an underslot deal could be difficult. But, he was also the 386th best prospect according to BA. That would have put him in the 11th round or so. Hopefully, he'll sign for around $250,000. That would save around $320,000 off his slot value, and still be twice as much as he would have expected pre-draft.
He could always chance it and go to college, but that's a risk, too.
My guess...White signs for ~$1.5 million, Kellington for $300,000, Bishop for $500,000
Draft Signings
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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rucker59@gmail.com
Draft Signings
4174636368516363686F63060 wrote: Then call it what it really is- "1, 2, 3, Punt And Sell The Future (That Never Arrives in the Burgh.)" They're experts at it. If you can't be good, draft. 
Throw Away, Punt, whatever. It's not good. It only makes people feel good when they're losing.
And To call 77 wins (.475 clip you illustrated above) “competing” is not?
The difference seems to be this: I have no interest in trying to be the best non-competing team in the league. You think competing is trying to win one more game.
77 wins means nothing to me unless it is demonstrably a step toward building a championship. If not, then do what is necessary to start building toward a truly competing team. If that means intentionally selling off pieces and only winning 65 next year, then 65 is at least purposeful. Trying to win 77 because that’s the best we can do….time to get out of the baseball business.
Throw Away, Punt, whatever. It's not good. It only makes people feel good when they're losing.
And To call 77 wins (.475 clip you illustrated above) “competing” is not?
The difference seems to be this: I have no interest in trying to be the best non-competing team in the league. You think competing is trying to win one more game.
77 wins means nothing to me unless it is demonstrably a step toward building a championship. If not, then do what is necessary to start building toward a truly competing team. If that means intentionally selling off pieces and only winning 65 next year, then 65 is at least purposeful. Trying to win 77 because that’s the best we can do….time to get out of the baseball business.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Draft Signings
Okay. So if Ben’s plan was to win “this year”, we both know the Pirates would probably never compete for a WS. They very likely will not become a WS team, but the decisions are based on that goal.
There have been plenty of years where the GM simply tried to field the best team each year. So this GM is trying to build a winner. So we have different objectives. That’s fine.
There have been plenty of years where the GM simply tried to field the best team each year. So this GM is trying to build a winner. So we have different objectives. That’s fine.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Draft Signings
7572646C6275323E47606A666E6B2964686A070 wrote: That seems high. He got more than Solometo. Maybe they think Kellington will be a below slot deal?
He was also rated higher than Solometo, although they were close. Also had to buy him out of two sports, not just one.
Beginning 2016 I became the biggest critic of the FO that is possible. I was ticked that they did nothing to make the 2015 team just a little bit better and furious about the off-season. I believed the team had no intention to even try to be a WS team.
I was surprised when Ben and Williams were hired; why would they come here to ruin a career. Maybe, just maybe Nutting, gave them a promise. Still, I’ve been lukewarm until this draft - Ben impressed the heck out of me. And suddenly there is a darn good farm system. A few good players in Pittsburgh. And I can start to see a plan coming together.
I’m willing to treat next year as another throw away. But by 2023 the Pirates will begin to look like a good MLB TEAM. Wild card outside chance. But 2023 the plan will be coming together.
I too am pleased with the draft picks and believe there is a plan. Something I didn't see with NH the last several years of his tenure. Another good draft next year and we should be well on our way to competing. The concern I have right now is Shelton. He does not look to be a manager of a good team. Somehow he has to go or get a lot better real quick or we're not going to be a dominant team in the future.
He was also rated higher than Solometo, although they were close. Also had to buy him out of two sports, not just one.
Beginning 2016 I became the biggest critic of the FO that is possible. I was ticked that they did nothing to make the 2015 team just a little bit better and furious about the off-season. I believed the team had no intention to even try to be a WS team.
I was surprised when Ben and Williams were hired; why would they come here to ruin a career. Maybe, just maybe Nutting, gave them a promise. Still, I’ve been lukewarm until this draft - Ben impressed the heck out of me. And suddenly there is a darn good farm system. A few good players in Pittsburgh. And I can start to see a plan coming together.
I’m willing to treat next year as another throw away. But by 2023 the Pirates will begin to look like a good MLB TEAM. Wild card outside chance. But 2023 the plan will be coming together.
I too am pleased with the draft picks and believe there is a plan. Something I didn't see with NH the last several years of his tenure. Another good draft next year and we should be well on our way to competing. The concern I have right now is Shelton. He does not look to be a manager of a good team. Somehow he has to go or get a lot better real quick or we're not going to be a dominant team in the future.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Draft Signings
534B494E4E59484F525345200 wrote: That seems high. He got more than Solometo. Maybe they think Kellington will be a below slot deal?
He was also rated higher than Solometo, although they were close. Also had to buy him out of two sports, not just one.
Beginning 2016 I became the biggest critic of the FO that is possible. I was ticked that they did nothing to make the 2015 team just a little bit better and furious about the off-season. I believed the team had no intention to even try to be a WS team.
I was surprised when Ben and Williams were hired; why would they come here to ruin a career. Maybe, just maybe Nutting, gave them a promise. Still, I’ve been lukewarm until this draft - Ben impressed the heck out of me. And suddenly there is a darn good farm system. A few good players in Pittsburgh. And I can start to see a plan coming together.
I’m willing to treat next year as another throw away. But by 2023 the Pirates will begin to look like a good MLB TEAM. Wild card outside chance. But 2023 the plan will be coming together.
I too am pleased with the draft picks and believe there is a plan. Something I didn't see with NH the last several years of his tenure. Another good draft next year and we should be well on our way to competing. The concern I have right now is Shelton. He does not look to be a manager of a good team. Somehow he has to go or get a lot better real quick or we're not going to be a dominant team in the future.
I’m apparently in the minority, and I recognize he’s made some decisions that look bad, but I think he’s doing a pretty good job. He’s kept this team tight and playing together. He could easily have lost the club house, but we’re getting the most out of each player. That’s what’s important to me right now.
He was also rated higher than Solometo, although they were close. Also had to buy him out of two sports, not just one.
Beginning 2016 I became the biggest critic of the FO that is possible. I was ticked that they did nothing to make the 2015 team just a little bit better and furious about the off-season. I believed the team had no intention to even try to be a WS team.
I was surprised when Ben and Williams were hired; why would they come here to ruin a career. Maybe, just maybe Nutting, gave them a promise. Still, I’ve been lukewarm until this draft - Ben impressed the heck out of me. And suddenly there is a darn good farm system. A few good players in Pittsburgh. And I can start to see a plan coming together.
I’m willing to treat next year as another throw away. But by 2023 the Pirates will begin to look like a good MLB TEAM. Wild card outside chance. But 2023 the plan will be coming together.
I too am pleased with the draft picks and believe there is a plan. Something I didn't see with NH the last several years of his tenure. Another good draft next year and we should be well on our way to competing. The concern I have right now is Shelton. He does not look to be a manager of a good team. Somehow he has to go or get a lot better real quick or we're not going to be a dominant team in the future.
I’m apparently in the minority, and I recognize he’s made some decisions that look bad, but I think he’s doing a pretty good job. He’s kept this team tight and playing together. He could easily have lost the club house, but we’re getting the most out of each player. That’s what’s important to me right now.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Draft Signings
He's a last place manager in my eyes. Up to him and a few others to change that. Frankly, he appears to be over his skis. We needed somebody, and he fit the shirt.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Draft Signings
784D5A5A51685A5A51565A3F0 wrote: He's a last place manager in my eyes. Up to him and a few others to change that. Frankly, he appears to be over his skis. We needed somebody, and he fit the shirt.
Well, he’s managing a last team so he’s meeting expectations!
Well, he’s managing a last team so he’s meeting expectations!
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Draft Signings
I guess we can say that. He has something going for him.
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steve49
Draft Signings
545C5F687E5B7C731D0 wrote: So, by my count, here's where we're at:
Regardless...put all this together, and they're over slot by $100,200. Which also means they can spend an additional $619,500 over their allotted amount (at a 75% tax) without losing draft picks.
In other words, they have $2,241,200 to play with to sign White, Kellington, and Bishop. I assume those three are the priority. But hey...so far, so good.
Many, many thanks to this site for keeping things up to date. https://pirates.pittsburghbaseball.com/2021draft/
I think they have a little more ($125k) if you count Bishop and the $125k they can pay him before using up bonus pool. But at this point, I think our most likely outcomes are that we get White, or we get Kellington and Bishop. Given what they had to know going into day 2 of the draft about the bonuses to be paid to Solometo and Chandler, it doesn't seem possible they could have believed they would have enough to get White and Bishop. I think Kellington's ask might have increased too complicating matters more. I'll be happy to see all three signed and be absolutely wrong.
Difficulty is that with Kellington and White both being in the top ten, if they don't sign, they lose that bonus money. I actually think Kellington could be key here. He's a high school guy, so an underslot deal could be difficult. But, he was also the 386th best prospect according to BA. That would have put him in the 11th round or so. Hopefully, he'll sign for around $250,000. That would save around $320,000 off his slot value, and still be twice as much as he would have expected pre-draft.
He could always chance it and go to college, but that's a risk, too.
My guess...White signs for ~$1.5 million, Kellington for $300,000, Bishop for $500,000
I think White is the toughest sign and the Pirates probably knew that. Could very well be it's going to be White or the other 2. What makes me think this is a possibility is the fact that they drafted White a round ahead of Chandler. While Chandler is the better prospect , the Pirates knew they were going to sign him for around that 3 million. So maybe not enough money left for the other 3 good draftees ? Bottom line is if they don't sign White , they get that spot returned to them in 2022. So when all the dust clears they have a higher 2022 draft pick returned to them by drafting White ahead of Chandler ? Not sure if I'm missing something and could very well be that I am ?
Regardless...put all this together, and they're over slot by $100,200. Which also means they can spend an additional $619,500 over their allotted amount (at a 75% tax) without losing draft picks.
In other words, they have $2,241,200 to play with to sign White, Kellington, and Bishop. I assume those three are the priority. But hey...so far, so good.
Many, many thanks to this site for keeping things up to date. https://pirates.pittsburghbaseball.com/2021draft/
I think they have a little more ($125k) if you count Bishop and the $125k they can pay him before using up bonus pool. But at this point, I think our most likely outcomes are that we get White, or we get Kellington and Bishop. Given what they had to know going into day 2 of the draft about the bonuses to be paid to Solometo and Chandler, it doesn't seem possible they could have believed they would have enough to get White and Bishop. I think Kellington's ask might have increased too complicating matters more. I'll be happy to see all three signed and be absolutely wrong.
Difficulty is that with Kellington and White both being in the top ten, if they don't sign, they lose that bonus money. I actually think Kellington could be key here. He's a high school guy, so an underslot deal could be difficult. But, he was also the 386th best prospect according to BA. That would have put him in the 11th round or so. Hopefully, he'll sign for around $250,000. That would save around $320,000 off his slot value, and still be twice as much as he would have expected pre-draft.
He could always chance it and go to college, but that's a risk, too.
My guess...White signs for ~$1.5 million, Kellington for $300,000, Bishop for $500,000
I think White is the toughest sign and the Pirates probably knew that. Could very well be it's going to be White or the other 2. What makes me think this is a possibility is the fact that they drafted White a round ahead of Chandler. While Chandler is the better prospect , the Pirates knew they were going to sign him for around that 3 million. So maybe not enough money left for the other 3 good draftees ? Bottom line is if they don't sign White , they get that spot returned to them in 2022. So when all the dust clears they have a higher 2022 draft pick returned to them by drafting White ahead of Chandler ? Not sure if I'm missing something and could very well be that I am ?