OnlyBucs

4C6B62626B787B6B4C7B6D0E0 wrote: I would much rather BC had acquired 1 player to help the 2020 team then playing for a undefined future that NEVER arrives in Pittsburgh.  That is nothing more than kicking the can down the road and apologizing for a GM who has done nothing.  Now my only concern is what BC will do to improve the 2021 team.  This playing for the future is a movie I have seen more times than I have watched the movie Titanic.  Relying on the draft is a hopeless strategy in Pittsburgh.  Those drafted players will reach FA and be dashed off long before their prime years.  I will measure BC solely on how well he does to improve the team right now.


He improved the team by claiming Michael Perez. In fact, he should be given credit for Jacob Stallings being kept, so the catcher position has been shored up. But hey, I can't make this stuff up.



You asked, you received. So here's your own words stating the expectations. Yet somehow....the only way to improve a club is by ending up on this list? Well, of course, we already know that isn't the case, at least as it stands for now with the Brewers GM. That negative .5, does that mean the freight train passed him like a bum, then backed up and did it again?



Asking for a friend




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Michael Perez was waived by Tampa Bay making him a minor leaguer.  When the Pirates acquired him, I have not seen anything saying he was given a major league contract so his still a minor leaguer.  I agree that Cherington improved the team with Perez, but until he is given a major league contract, he will not be scored.



I have no idea what you are talking about with a -.5 with the Brewers.

There are NO negative scores for any reason.


By the simple fact that Perez was designated for assignment means he has a major league contract.  You can see his salary here.



https://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/ray ... layer/all/



Just like every pre-Arb player, his salary will be renewed in the spring.  All players on the Pirates MLB 40 man roster have major league contracts including Perez and Ashton Goudeau. Their contracts are not converted to a minor league contract until they are optioned.


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No problem when his salary is renewed in the spring, he will be scored at that point.

I thought I had seen it all, but I need the help of the blue ribbon panel on this one.



Rangers signed RHP Joe Gatto to a one-year contract.

Gatto was a second-round pick of the Angels back in 2014, but he is now 25 years old and has yet to pitch above the Double-A level. The right-hander has a career 4.80 ERA, 1.58 WHIP, and 366/200 K/BB ratio in 448 1/3 total minor league innings. It's curious that he was able to land a guaranteed major league deal.

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My vote is that we score him as a major leaguer since he has a major league contract even though he has never played in the major leagues, but I will go along with the vote of the blue ribbon panel.

694F4E594F5F2C0 wrote: OK.  So I wasn't specific enough.  I assumed that everyone understood that we were addressing MLB players alone.  It's been written more than once.



I should have written that it was "rating MLB players alone.  Whether it improves the roster is another matter.



How we rate players is how we rate them.  If someone disagrees, they can ask to join in next year.



I think Ben came down with Covid Amnesia.  He can't recall how to go about acquiring MLB players.  Maybe he will snap out of it.  Does anyone know the Secret Word?


I don't know the secret word but the password is Swordfish.


No, we got tired of that. We changed it.

The Rangers get on the board by signing Scott Heineman for a .5. What say you Wildwood Dave and Greenweenie?



The current standings are:



Braves - Almonte (.5),Tomlin(2),Smyly(3),Morton(2.5)............... 8

Mets - Stroman(3.5),Williams(1),May(2.5)..................................7

Royals - Minor(2.5),Taylor(1)..................................................3.5

Giants - Vosler(1),Gausman(2)...................................................3

Astros - Gurriel(3).....................................................................3





Marlins - Marte(3)......................................................................3

Yankees - Britton(3)...................................................................3

Cubs - Rizzo(3).......................................................................3





Blue Jays- Dolis(2),Ray(1)..........................................................3

Phillies - Neris(3)......................................................................3

Orioles - Iglesias(2.5)..............................................................2.5

Angels - Igesias(2)....................................................................2

Indians - Perez(2.5)...................................................................2

Diamondbacks - Kelly(2)............................................................2

Nationals - Harrison(1),Clay(1)...................................................2

Mariners - Graveman(1).............................................................1

Dodgers Knebel(1)...................................................................1

Reds - Hoffman-(.5)................................................................0.5

Rockies - Stephenson(.5).........................................................0.5

Brewers - Maile(.5).................................................................0.5

Rangers - Heineman(.5)..........................................................0.5



Now Cherington is one of only 9 GM's who have not signed anyone to a major league contract.

So there are 8 more Cheringtons? Que cosa. No lo creo!

554D4F48485F4E49545543260 wrote: I tried this logic before, Sugar, but it didn't take.  I doubt you'll have any luck, either.  You see, when Cherington didn't make a single transaction within his first few minutes on the job, he became worse than Huntington.  Because we all know that running a major league ball club is exactly like running a fantasy league team.


LOL, I was just reading at the beginning of the thread to see how it read, because possum had mention deleting it. I saw the GW quote directed at someone mentioning some sort of low level moves.



So, I just couldn't resist pointing out how serious this whole thing seems to be, until it isn't.



It was the fact they even gave Luke Maile a .5 for a grade. I guess they weren't allowed to give zeros, because if they had, I never would have thought I'd point out those "inconsistencies".  You can't lay claim to BC "doing nothing like a train passing a bum" when he in fact upgraded the catching position, albeit probably minimally. But better is better right?




The whole idea behind the thread is to rip on the GM for not immediately turning the Pirates into contenders.  We all want the Pirates to win, but those of us who live here on planet Earth understand there's a process when a new guy takes over.  We won't even mention the impositions the pandemic caused because that's not an acceptable excuse.
I agree Doc, it takes 2 to tango and making deals just to be making deals is how we lost Glasnow and Meadows, for a guy who money wise cost us a ton and made the team worse.  But we just had to make a deal any deal, and when it first happened there were lots of people on here that were okay with it until they realized how bad Archer was.  I don't want acquisition to be made just to satisfy the fan base, it has to be good for the Pirates.  [highlight]I will wait and see what happens before I decide on Cherington.[/highlight]  The only criticism I have of him so far is the Shelton hire.  I am really concerned he doesn't seem to understand his players strengths and weaknesses.  A manager has to give the team the best chance to win and I didn't see that from him.




Agreed. He has to be given time to bring in his own staff, scouts, and coaches, get everyone on the same page with regard to development, and then begin to rid the organization of players who don't fit the mold and bring in those who do.



It takes more than a few months to put that all in place. Add in that the season was shut down for several months, which hindered the new staff's work and their complete assessment of the players, and it should come as little surprise that things didn't go well in 2020. Other organizations with everything and everyone already in place had a distinct advantage over an organization like the Pirates.

0B5D4B5F504A5A515C4B795E54585055175A390 wrote: I tried this logic before, Sugar, but it didn't take.  I doubt you'll have any luck, either.  You see, when Cherington didn't make a single transaction within his first few minutes on the job, he became worse than Huntington.  Because we all know that running a major league ball club is exactly like running a fantasy league team.


LOL, I was just reading at the beginning of the thread to see how it read, because possum had mention deleting it. I saw the GW quote directed at someone mentioning some sort of low level moves.



So, I just couldn't resist pointing out how serious this whole thing seems to be, until it isn't.



It was the fact they even gave Luke Maile a .5 for a grade. I guess they weren't allowed to give zeros, because if they had, I never would have thought I'd point out those "inconsistencies".  You can't lay claim to BC "doing nothing like a train passing a bum" when he in fact upgraded the catching position, albeit probably minimally. But better is better right?




The whole idea behind the thread is to rip on the GM for not immediately turning the Pirates into contenders.  We all want the Pirates to win, but those of us who live here on planet Earth understand there's a process when a new guy takes over.  We won't even mention the impositions the pandemic caused because that's not an acceptable excuse.
I agree Doc, it takes 2 to tango and making deals just to be making deals is how we lost Glasnow and Meadows, for a guy who money wise cost us a ton and made the team worse.  But we just had to make a deal any deal, and when it first happened there were lots of people on here that were okay with it until they realized how bad Archer was.  I don't want acquisition to be made just to satisfy the fan base, it has to be good for the Pirates.  [highlight]I will wait and see what happens before I decide on Cherington.[/highlight]  The only criticism I have of him so far is the Shelton hire.  I am really concerned he doesn't seem to understand his players strengths and weaknesses.  A manager has to give the team the best chance to win and I didn't see that from him.




Agreed.  He has to be given time to bring in his own staff, scouts, and coaches, get everyone on the same page with regard to development, and then begin to rid the organization of players who don't fit the mold and bring in those who do. 



It takes more than a few months to put that all in place.  Add in that the season was shut down for several months, which hindered the new staff's work and their complete assessment of the players, and it should come as little surprise that things didn't go well in 2020.  Other organizations with everything and everyone already in place had a distinct advantage over an organization like the Pirates.
_______

WOW, that is kicking the can down the road so far that it becomes kicking the can down the dirt path.

3F242928212D224C0 wrote: I tried this logic before, Sugar, but it didn't take.  I doubt you'll have any luck, either.  You see, when Cherington didn't make a single transaction within his first few minutes on the job, he became worse than Huntington.  Because we all know that running a major league ball club is exactly like running a fantasy league team.


LOL, I was just reading at the beginning of the thread to see how it read, because possum had mention deleting it. I saw the GW quote directed at someone mentioning some sort of low level moves.



So, I just couldn't resist pointing out how serious this whole thing seems to be, until it isn't.



It was the fact they even gave Luke Maile a .5 for a grade. I guess they weren't allowed to give zeros, because if they had, I never would have thought I'd point out those "inconsistencies".  You can't lay claim to BC "doing nothing like a train passing a bum" when he in fact upgraded the catching position, albeit probably minimally. But better is better right?




The whole idea behind the thread is to rip on the GM for not immediately turning the Pirates into contenders.  We all want the Pirates to win, but those of us who live here on planet Earth understand there's a process when a new guy takes over.  We won't even mention the impositions the pandemic caused because that's not an acceptable excuse.
I agree Doc, it takes 2 to tango and making deals just to be making deals is how we lost Glasnow and Meadows, for a guy who money wise cost us a ton and made the team worse.  But we just had to make a deal any deal, and when it first happened there were lots of people on here that were okay with it until they realized how bad Archer was.  I don't want acquisition to be made just to satisfy the fan base, it has to be good for the Pirates.  [highlight]I will wait and see what happens before I decide on Cherington.[/highlight]  The only criticism I have of him so far is the Shelton hire.  I am really concerned he doesn't seem to understand his players strengths and weaknesses.  A manager has to give the team the best chance to win and I didn't see that from him.




Agreed.  He has to be given time to bring in his own staff, scouts, and coaches, get everyone on the same page with regard to development, and then begin to rid the organization of players who don't fit the mold and bring in those who do. 



It takes more than a few months to put that all in place.  Add in that the season was shut down for several months, which hindered the new staff's work and their complete assessment of the players, and it should come as little surprise that things didn't go well in 2020.  Other organizations with everything and everyone already in place had a distinct advantage over an organization like the Pirates.
_______

WOW, that is kicking the can down the road so far that it becomes kicking the can down the dirt path.




Exaggerate much? Putting people and a strategy in place over a one year time period is like, I don't know, a trip to Neptune? Maybe you need to come in off that ledge.

0E584E5A554F5F54594E7C5B515D5550125F3C0 wrote: I tried this logic before, Sugar, but it didn't take.  I doubt you'll have any luck, either.  You see, when Cherington didn't make a single transaction within his first few minutes on the job, he became worse than Huntington.  Because we all know that running a major league ball club is exactly like running a fantasy league team.


LOL, I was just reading at the beginning of the thread to see how it read, because possum had mention deleting it. I saw the GW quote directed at someone mentioning some sort of low level moves.



So, I just couldn't resist pointing out how serious this whole thing seems to be, until it isn't.



It was the fact they even gave Luke Maile a .5 for a grade. I guess they weren't allowed to give zeros, because if they had, I never would have thought I'd point out those "inconsistencies".  You can't lay claim to BC "doing nothing like a train passing a bum" when he in fact upgraded the catching position, albeit probably minimally. But better is better right?




The whole idea behind the thread is to rip on the GM for not immediately turning the Pirates into contenders.  We all want the Pirates to win, but those of us who live here on planet Earth understand there's a process when a new guy takes over.  We won't even mention the impositions the pandemic caused because that's not an acceptable excuse.
I agree Doc, it takes 2 to tango and making deals just to be making deals is how we lost Glasnow and Meadows, for a guy who money wise cost us a ton and made the team worse.  But we just had to make a deal any deal, and when it first happened there were lots of people on here that were okay with it until they realized how bad Archer was.  I don't want acquisition to be made just to satisfy the fan base, it has to be good for the Pirates.  [highlight]I will wait and see what happens before I decide on Cherington.[/highlight]  The only criticism I have of him so far is the Shelton hire.  I am really concerned he doesn't seem to understand his players strengths and weaknesses.  A manager has to give the team the best chance to win and I didn't see that from him.




Agreed.  He has to be given time to bring in his own staff, scouts, and coaches, get everyone on the same page with regard to development, and then begin to rid the organization of players who don't fit the mold and bring in those who do. 



It takes more than a few months to put that all in place.  Add in that the season was shut down for several months, which hindered the new staff's work and their complete assessment of the players, and it should come as little surprise that things didn't go well in 2020.  Other organizations with everything and everyone already in place had a distinct advantage over an organization like the Pirates.
_______

WOW, that is kicking the can down the road so far that it becomes kicking the can down the dirt path.




Exaggerate much?  Putting people and a strategy in place over a one year time period is like, I don't know, a trip to Neptune?  Maybe you need to come in off that ledge.


_____

Will this review process be done before 2030?

475C515059555A340 wrote: I tried this logic before, Sugar, but it didn't take.  I doubt you'll have any luck, either.  You see, when Cherington didn't make a single transaction within his first few minutes on the job, he became worse than Huntington.  Because we all know that running a major league ball club is exactly like running a fantasy league team.


LOL, I was just reading at the beginning of the thread to see how it read, because possum had mention deleting it. I saw the GW quote directed at someone mentioning some sort of low level moves.



So, I just couldn't resist pointing out how serious this whole thing seems to be, until it isn't.



It was the fact they even gave Luke Maile a .5 for a grade. I guess they weren't allowed to give zeros, because if they had, I never would have thought I'd point out those "inconsistencies".  You can't lay claim to BC "doing nothing like a train passing a bum" when he in fact upgraded the catching position, albeit probably minimally. But better is better right?




The whole idea behind the thread is to rip on the GM for not immediately turning the Pirates into contenders.  We all want the Pirates to win, but those of us who live here on planet Earth understand there's a process when a new guy takes over.  We won't even mention the impositions the pandemic caused because that's not an acceptable excuse.
I agree Doc, it takes 2 to tango and making deals just to be making deals is how we lost Glasnow and Meadows, for a guy who money wise cost us a ton and made the team worse.  But we just had to make a deal any deal, and when it first happened there were lots of people on here that were okay with it until they realized how bad Archer was.  I don't want acquisition to be made just to satisfy the fan base, it has to be good for the Pirates.  [highlight]I will wait and see what happens before I decide on Cherington.[/highlight]  The only criticism I have of him so far is the Shelton hire.  I am really concerned he doesn't seem to understand his players strengths and weaknesses.  A manager has to give the team the best chance to win and I didn't see that from him.




Agreed.  He has to be given time to bring in his own staff, scouts, and coaches, get everyone on the same page with regard to development, and then begin to rid the organization of players who don't fit the mold and bring in those who do. 



It takes more than a few months to put that all in place.  Add in that the season was shut down for several months, which hindered the new staff's work and their complete assessment of the players, and it should come as little surprise that things didn't go well in 2020.  Other organizations with everything and everyone already in place had a distinct advantage over an organization like the Pirates.
_______

WOW, that is kicking the can down the road so far that it becomes kicking the can down the dirt path.




Exaggerate much?  Putting people and a strategy in place over a one year time period is like, I don't know, a trip to Neptune?  Maybe you need to come in off that ledge.


_____

Will this review process be done before 2030?


I'd guess it's mostly done now but, then again, he doesn't confer with me before making decisions. I don't see why you object to getting things in place, all while avoiding making bad moves, so that the future can arrive faster and be better at the same time.