62505C5C487A59505D585750310 wrote: This early season piggybacking starters is helping us figure out what we have and what we don't. I suppose we're seeing both sides of that, heh.
This goes under the Feint Praise Dept but since they decided to go into the season with a starting rotation that could not be expected to compete at the MLB level, they at least had a plan to cope rather than throwing them to the wolves and hoping for a miracle. However, expecting their BP to handle 5 or 6 of every 9 innings is likely not a sustainable strategy. Especially when 2 of the relievers who have been bailing them out-Crowe and Peters-were deemed not good enough to crack this woeful starting rotation.
Here are the average lengths of starts and their ERAs:
Quintana 4.2 IP 3.86
Keller 4.1 6.23
Brubaker 4.1 7.30
Wilson 3.2 6.35
Thompson 3.1 10.80
Quintana is the only semi respectable one but he's only exceeded 4.2 IP once (a whopping 5.1 IP). Keller finally had a good game but was yanked after striking out the first batter in the 6th trailing 1-0 after just 75 pitches. Either Shelton was shellshocked by seeing Keller do well or just wanted to get him out of the game before he could mess it up. (Then Yajure messed it up.) Through 15 games the starters--in their consistently brief outings--have given up 3+ runs 10 times including 4+ runs 7 times. Those are the early holes the team must try to dig out from.
We wondered throughout the off season how they could expect these SPs to compete and, apparently, they don't. The Pirates don't pay for good FA pitchers and didn't have any prospects ready for the opening day rotation. So, having created such a dismal problem for themselves, I at least give them credit for acknowledging that they can't expect more than 3-4 innings from these guys and even at that, some games are already lost before the first reliever takes over. But Crowe, with 12 IP in 15 games is on a pace for 130 IP. In 2021 Brubaker led the staff with 124. Peters, Yajure, Fletcher and Bednar are all on a pace for 75-85 innings. So I believe their strategy of finding a way to deal with the disaster of a rotation that they created will only result in a different disaster when the BP can no longer cope with pitching more than half of every game.
The Pirates pitching strategy is like expecting Lucy and Ethel to handle the chocolates assembly line. At first it works but they know they can't sustain it so they compensate by eating and hiding the candy. But that only leads to further problems.
The tag line for AT&T Sports could be, "Hilarity ensues when the Pirates try to pass off 5 guys as a starting rotation."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbNcQlzV-4" style="border:0;height:100%;left:0;position:absolute;width:100%">
4/23 Game Thread - Bucs @ Cubs
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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GreenWeenie
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4/23 Game Thread - Bucs @ Cubs
Very good points, IMO.
Taken a step further, the offense. We're not really getting the job done there, either. Look at our Pre-seaon Prediction Polls. Take the "Under."
When you take our inadequate pitching, it means that Lucy and Ethel will scramble to score enough runs to be competitive. They'll catch up from time to time, give some hope, only to fall back unless The Boss ever gets around to getting a couple more folks to work with them.
Our boss? He'll dump Lucy and Ethel so he can get three LM assembly line workers and wait for some future orders.
Taken a step further, the offense. We're not really getting the job done there, either. Look at our Pre-seaon Prediction Polls. Take the "Under."
When you take our inadequate pitching, it means that Lucy and Ethel will scramble to score enough runs to be competitive. They'll catch up from time to time, give some hope, only to fall back unless The Boss ever gets around to getting a couple more folks to work with them.
Our boss? He'll dump Lucy and Ethel so he can get three LM assembly line workers and wait for some future orders.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
4/23 Game Thread - Bucs @ Cubs
0017011154525553555B620 wrote: I see the Weenie showed up. Always around when the boys take an ass whipping.
A loss is a loss regardless of score. Win today and the BUCS win series and are right back at .500. Come home and pay the Brewers back. (a big maybe)
At least I'm here. Where were you? Hiding under the covers?
I don't agree that all losses are the same. They're the same in the standings, but that's about it. There are different circumstances, different opponents, different competitors, and different scores that sometimes have an effect on the overall season.
Losing one game of 162 by itself probably doesn't mean much. Losing a game when there's more at stake means lot more.
If we'd ask a single player- "would you like to be one of the players who lost the worst game in the franchise's history?", I'd be surprised if any would answer, "yes." This is one of the games they'd rather not tell their grandchildren about someday.
The good part about games like that is that professionals will shake it off, like you said. Yesterday's game's over. Start from here. It's got to be tough.
The worst thing about it is- these players know that they're the guys who lost. Several of them are playing, knowing that their jobs are very much on the line. That's not easy for anyone.
A loss is a loss regardless of score. Win today and the BUCS win series and are right back at .500. Come home and pay the Brewers back. (a big maybe)
At least I'm here. Where were you? Hiding under the covers?
I don't agree that all losses are the same. They're the same in the standings, but that's about it. There are different circumstances, different opponents, different competitors, and different scores that sometimes have an effect on the overall season.
Losing one game of 162 by itself probably doesn't mean much. Losing a game when there's more at stake means lot more.
If we'd ask a single player- "would you like to be one of the players who lost the worst game in the franchise's history?", I'd be surprised if any would answer, "yes." This is one of the games they'd rather not tell their grandchildren about someday.
The good part about games like that is that professionals will shake it off, like you said. Yesterday's game's over. Start from here. It's got to be tough.
The worst thing about it is- these players know that they're the guys who lost. Several of them are playing, knowing that their jobs are very much on the line. That's not easy for anyone.
4/23 Game Thread - Bucs @ Cubs
0C392E2E251C2E2E25222E4B0 wrote: I dnk how old the Pirates franchise is, but the Trib writer today says that this is the worst loss in franchise history. That's bad.
At least there was some mercy. An Away game.
Things can only go up from here.
I could go with "lopsided", worst? It's a regular season blowout that every team faces a time or two,
Worst loss is the easiest. Sid Slid.
Big difference between the two.
Semantics.
To lend a hand with the Apologism, here goes: It's the worst RS loss by the Pittsburgh Pirates at Wrigley Stadium against the Cubs on April 23, 2022.
Then it isn't semantics. You're stating exactly what I pointed out. It's a separate game from any other. Worst loss ever? That was the statement, and no, it isn't the Pirates worst loss ever.
You say I'm using semantics. I say you're now trying to wordsmith.
Neon Trees Greenie. Neon effing Trees.
At least there was some mercy. An Away game.
Things can only go up from here.
I could go with "lopsided", worst? It's a regular season blowout that every team faces a time or two,
Worst loss is the easiest. Sid Slid.
Big difference between the two.
Semantics.
To lend a hand with the Apologism, here goes: It's the worst RS loss by the Pittsburgh Pirates at Wrigley Stadium against the Cubs on April 23, 2022.
Then it isn't semantics. You're stating exactly what I pointed out. It's a separate game from any other. Worst loss ever? That was the statement, and no, it isn't the Pirates worst loss ever.
You say I'm using semantics. I say you're now trying to wordsmith.
Neon Trees Greenie. Neon effing Trees.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
4/23 Game Thread - Bucs @ Cubs
They lost the NLCS game 3 to 2. What does that mean?
It means- unlike the 2022 Pirates, that wasn't a minor league club. It went to the semi-finals. This si a far worse club on our side.
The 2022 Clubs aren't the 1992 Braves. It's something less than that, so this loss was against a lesser opponent than the 92 Braves.
Then, the 21 runs given up are far worse than giving up 3.
And...and, and, in the 1992 game, we were able to score two runs. We scored 0 yesterday. I'll edit that. You can't score 0, so I'll say that we didn't score in yesterday's game.
Emotionally, the 92 NLCS felt worse.
It wasn't a worse loss regardless of the PR attempts.
It means- unlike the 2022 Pirates, that wasn't a minor league club. It went to the semi-finals. This si a far worse club on our side.
The 2022 Clubs aren't the 1992 Braves. It's something less than that, so this loss was against a lesser opponent than the 92 Braves.
Then, the 21 runs given up are far worse than giving up 3.
And...and, and, in the 1992 game, we were able to score two runs. We scored 0 yesterday. I'll edit that. You can't score 0, so I'll say that we didn't score in yesterday's game.
Emotionally, the 92 NLCS felt worse.
It wasn't a worse loss regardless of the PR attempts.
4/23 Game Thread - Bucs @ Cubs
1025323239003232393E32570 wrote: They lost the NLCS game 3 to 2. What does that mean?
It means- unlike the 2022 Pirates, that wasn't a minor league club. It went to the semi-finals. This si a far worse club on our side.
The 2022 Clubs aren't the 1992 Braves. It's something less than that, so this loss was against a lesser opponent than the 92 Braves.
Then, the 21 runs given up are far worse than giving up 3.
And...and, and, in the 1992 game, we were able to score two runs. We scored 0 yesterday. I'll edit that. You can't score 0, so I'll say that we didn't score in yesterday's game.
Emotionally, the 92 NLCS felt worse.
It wasn't a worse loss regardless of the PR attempts.
Ahh, good catch, game 5 of the NLCS might be their worst.
So 2 candidates, neither of which is yesterday. Yesterday is simply fodder to bash the team over one game, yet rarely are you seen when they win.
You and batman. What an act
It means- unlike the 2022 Pirates, that wasn't a minor league club. It went to the semi-finals. This si a far worse club on our side.
The 2022 Clubs aren't the 1992 Braves. It's something less than that, so this loss was against a lesser opponent than the 92 Braves.
Then, the 21 runs given up are far worse than giving up 3.
And...and, and, in the 1992 game, we were able to score two runs. We scored 0 yesterday. I'll edit that. You can't score 0, so I'll say that we didn't score in yesterday's game.
Emotionally, the 92 NLCS felt worse.
It wasn't a worse loss regardless of the PR attempts.
Ahh, good catch, game 5 of the NLCS might be their worst.
So 2 candidates, neither of which is yesterday. Yesterday is simply fodder to bash the team over one game, yet rarely are you seen when they win.
You and batman. What an act
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
4/23 Game Thread - Bucs @ Cubs
I dont consider it fodder for bashing, but if you do, so be it.
It was a bad loss, made moreso by being against a division opponent. But, that's all it was.
It was a bad loss, made moreso by being against a division opponent. But, that's all it was.
4/23 Game Thread - Bucs @ Cubs
6D404D5C5B4A5D1D1E2F0 wrote: This early season piggybacking starters is helping us figure out what we have and what we don't. I suppose we're seeing both sides of that, heh.
This goes under the Feint Praise Dept but since they decided to go into the season with a starting rotation that could not be expected to compete at the MLB level, they at least had a plan to cope rather than throwing them to the wolves and hoping for a miracle. However, expecting their BP to handle 5 or 6 of every 9 innings is likely not a sustainable strategy. Especially when 2 of the relievers who have been bailing them out-Crowe and Peters-were deemed not good enough to crack this woeful starting rotation.
Here are the average lengths of starts and their ERAs:
Quintana 4.2 IP 3.86
Keller 4.1 6.23
Brubaker 4.1 7.30
Wilson 3.2 6.35
Thompson 3.1 10.80
Quintana is the only semi respectable one but he's only exceeded 4.2 IP once (a whopping 5.1 IP). Keller finally had a good game but was yanked after striking out the first batter in the 6th trailing 1-0 after just 75 pitches. Either Shelton was shellshocked by seeing Keller do well or just wanted to get him out of the game before he could mess it up. (Then Yajure messed it up.) Through 15 games the starters--in their consistently brief outings--have given up 3+ runs 10 times including 4+ runs 7 times. Those are the early holes the team must try to dig out from.
We wondered throughout the off season how they could expect these SPs to compete and, apparently, they don't. The Pirates don't pay for good FA pitchers and didn't have any prospects ready for the opening day rotation. So, having created such a dismal problem for themselves, I at least give them credit for acknowledging that they can't expect more than 3-4 innings from these guys and even at that, some games are already lost before the first reliever takes over. But Crowe, with 12 IP in 15 games is on a pace for 130 IP. In 2021 Brubaker led the staff with 124. Peters, Yajure, Fletcher and Bednar are all on a pace for 75-85 innings. So I believe their strategy of finding a way to deal with the disaster of a rotation that they created will only result in a different disaster when the BP can no longer cope with pitching more than half of every game.
The Pirates pitching strategy is like expecting Lucy and Ethel to handle the chocolates assembly line. At first it works but they know they can't sustain it so they compensate by eating and hiding the candy. But that only leads to further problems.
The tag line for AT&T Sports could be, "Hilarity ensures when the Pirates try to pass off 5 guys as a starting rotation."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbNcQlzV-4" style="border:0;height:100%;left:0;position:absolute;width:100%">
interesting, so the more starters pitch the lower their ERA. Good argument for sticking with them longer.
This goes under the Feint Praise Dept but since they decided to go into the season with a starting rotation that could not be expected to compete at the MLB level, they at least had a plan to cope rather than throwing them to the wolves and hoping for a miracle. However, expecting their BP to handle 5 or 6 of every 9 innings is likely not a sustainable strategy. Especially when 2 of the relievers who have been bailing them out-Crowe and Peters-were deemed not good enough to crack this woeful starting rotation.
Here are the average lengths of starts and their ERAs:
Quintana 4.2 IP 3.86
Keller 4.1 6.23
Brubaker 4.1 7.30
Wilson 3.2 6.35
Thompson 3.1 10.80
Quintana is the only semi respectable one but he's only exceeded 4.2 IP once (a whopping 5.1 IP). Keller finally had a good game but was yanked after striking out the first batter in the 6th trailing 1-0 after just 75 pitches. Either Shelton was shellshocked by seeing Keller do well or just wanted to get him out of the game before he could mess it up. (Then Yajure messed it up.) Through 15 games the starters--in their consistently brief outings--have given up 3+ runs 10 times including 4+ runs 7 times. Those are the early holes the team must try to dig out from.
We wondered throughout the off season how they could expect these SPs to compete and, apparently, they don't. The Pirates don't pay for good FA pitchers and didn't have any prospects ready for the opening day rotation. So, having created such a dismal problem for themselves, I at least give them credit for acknowledging that they can't expect more than 3-4 innings from these guys and even at that, some games are already lost before the first reliever takes over. But Crowe, with 12 IP in 15 games is on a pace for 130 IP. In 2021 Brubaker led the staff with 124. Peters, Yajure, Fletcher and Bednar are all on a pace for 75-85 innings. So I believe their strategy of finding a way to deal with the disaster of a rotation that they created will only result in a different disaster when the BP can no longer cope with pitching more than half of every game.
The Pirates pitching strategy is like expecting Lucy and Ethel to handle the chocolates assembly line. At first it works but they know they can't sustain it so they compensate by eating and hiding the candy. But that only leads to further problems.
The tag line for AT&T Sports could be, "Hilarity ensures when the Pirates try to pass off 5 guys as a starting rotation."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbNcQlzV-4" style="border:0;height:100%;left:0;position:absolute;width:100%">
interesting, so the more starters pitch the lower their ERA. Good argument for sticking with them longer.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
4/23 Game Thread - Bucs @ Cubs
6D53565E4D55555E7E5B4C5F083A0 wrote: Thompson is a proud graduate of the Mitch Keller School for Spinning a Bad Game to Sound Like a Good One.
“I got a lot of soft contact,” Thompson said. “I think that’s what we were pushing for going into this start — to make sure I get ground balls and get weak contact, and we did that."
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pir ... 2204230010
Gee, sounds like he had a swell game. Can't wait for his next one!
Shelton said, "we just didn't play a good game"
Hate to see what the score would have been if the Cubs were making hard contact. When you have an ERA as high as Thompson Its best to keep your mouth shut!
“I got a lot of soft contact,” Thompson said. “I think that’s what we were pushing for going into this start — to make sure I get ground balls and get weak contact, and we did that."
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pir ... 2204230010
Gee, sounds like he had a swell game. Can't wait for his next one!
Shelton said, "we just didn't play a good game"
Hate to see what the score would have been if the Cubs were making hard contact. When you have an ERA as high as Thompson Its best to keep your mouth shut!