I hope he is not hurt. And if he was hurt and trying to pitch through it, that is even worse. I also hope it isn't an excuse (Taillon was put on the DL unhurt, it happens).
The Front Office has been saying Glasnow isn't ready. With other poor play and other injuries, he got the start. But it was clear he wasn't ready for it.
He needs to work on another pitch. He needs to work on holding runners or getting to the plate faster. The Front Office knows this. Why they been saying he isn't ready. But people keep thinking it is about money and Super 2.
Glasnow is young. He is 22. He has time to get ready. I am not blaming the Front Office because he isn't ready yet at the age of 22. But we clearly know he wasn't up sooner not because of money. Some people here wanted him to start the season in the Rotation. He has time to get better. The minors is where he needs to be most of the time.
Game thread 7/23 - Glasnow Home Debut
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
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Game thread 7/23 - Glasnow Home Debut
10372622273A05312627273A430 wrote: Despite Glasnow not looking good assuming the Pirates don't trade for a pitcher at the deadline and Glasnow is healthy, I would still rather see him pitching every 5th day over guys like Locke and Niese. He has great stuff he just needs to polish up his control and his ability to hold runners on. I'd still rather have him work on his problems here at the Major League level then at AAA.
I thought every win was important?
I thought every win was important?
Game thread 7/23 - Glasnow Home Debut
48414958562C0 wrote: I'm not sure why anyone is surprised at the results we've seen from Glasnow. At every level jump in his professional career, he has initially struggled. Every playoff game he has struggled. Clearly, it takes a little bit for him to emotionally catch up to the new moments and challenges. There are enough really calming presences on the MLB roster right now, they will help him come around.
NH continued to say that Glasnow wasn't ready and needed to work on a number of things. However, people see gaudy ERA and strikeout numbers and declare the FO to be idiots and disinterested in winning. Low and behold, Glasnow does indeed, have things he is working on. Shocking. ::)
First of all, his shoulder was hurt which is much more telling of why he was completely off than any nonsense about him not being able to battle with a bad ML lineup... because he hasn't perfected a change-up.
Second of all, the FO is responsible for a pitcher with countless minor league starts not having a slide step as a 6'8" right hander. The incompetence of minor league instruction regarding that is very surprising. His clock to home is embarrassingly bad, and they've let him keep pitching that way through AAA. WHY?
Third, the FO is responsible for calling him up, not OBN
Lastly, the FO is responsible for blowing the offseason, and having to count on AAA prospects to save the season in July.
THE FO IS RESPONSIBLE, NOT FANS. Understand?
The bolded above is really the crux of the matter. Had NH obtained adequate/reliable starting pitching in the off-season the issues with Glasnow or any of our young pitching prospects would be moot. If the FO knew that Glasnow had issues that would prevent him from being effective out of the gate as a MLB starter then why go after a mediocre (and trending downward) Niese & Vogelsong, and long-shot reclamation projects like Nicasio as the only rotation insurance against having to rush Glasnow or any of the others. Seems in retrospect like a fairly risky gamble that has failed.
NH continued to say that Glasnow wasn't ready and needed to work on a number of things. However, people see gaudy ERA and strikeout numbers and declare the FO to be idiots and disinterested in winning. Low and behold, Glasnow does indeed, have things he is working on. Shocking. ::)
First of all, his shoulder was hurt which is much more telling of why he was completely off than any nonsense about him not being able to battle with a bad ML lineup... because he hasn't perfected a change-up.
Second of all, the FO is responsible for a pitcher with countless minor league starts not having a slide step as a 6'8" right hander. The incompetence of minor league instruction regarding that is very surprising. His clock to home is embarrassingly bad, and they've let him keep pitching that way through AAA. WHY?
Third, the FO is responsible for calling him up, not OBN
Lastly, the FO is responsible for blowing the offseason, and having to count on AAA prospects to save the season in July.
THE FO IS RESPONSIBLE, NOT FANS. Understand?
The bolded above is really the crux of the matter. Had NH obtained adequate/reliable starting pitching in the off-season the issues with Glasnow or any of our young pitching prospects would be moot. If the FO knew that Glasnow had issues that would prevent him from being effective out of the gate as a MLB starter then why go after a mediocre (and trending downward) Niese & Vogelsong, and long-shot reclamation projects like Nicasio as the only rotation insurance against having to rush Glasnow or any of the others. Seems in retrospect like a fairly risky gamble that has failed.
Game thread 7/23 - Glasnow Home Debut
7B5F4B43462A0 wrote: I'm not sure why anyone is surprised at the results we've seen from Glasnow. At every level jump in his professional career, he has initially struggled. Every playoff game he has struggled. Clearly, it takes a little bit for him to emotionally catch up to the new moments and challenges. There are enough really calming presences on the MLB roster right now, they will help him come around.
NH continued to say that Glasnow wasn't ready and needed to work on a number of things. However, people see gaudy ERA and strikeout numbers and declare the FO to be idiots and disinterested in winning. Low and behold, Glasnow does indeed, have things he is working on. Shocking. ::)
First of all, his shoulder was hurt which is much more telling of why he was completely off than any nonsense about him not being able to battle with a bad ML lineup... because he hasn't perfected a change-up.
Second of all, the FO is responsible for a pitcher with countless minor league starts not having a slide step as a 6'8" right hander. The incompetence of minor league instruction regarding that is very surprising. His clock to home is embarrassingly bad, and they've let him keep pitching that way through AAA. WHY?
Third, the FO is responsible for calling him up, not OBN
Lastly, the FO is responsible for blowing the offseason, and having to count on AAA prospects to save the season in July.
THE FO IS RESPONSIBLE, NOT FANS. Understand?
The bolded above is really the crux of the matter. Had NH obtained adequate/reliable starting pitching in the off-season the issues with Glasnow or any of our young pitching prospects would be moot. If the FO knew that Glasnow had issues that would prevent him from being effective out of the gate as a MLB starter then why go after a mediocre (and trending downward) Niese & Vogelsong, and long-shot reclamation projects like Nicasio as the only rotation insurance against having to rush Glasnow or any of the others. Seems in retrospect like a fairly risky gamble that has failed.
Yes the risky gamble failed but at the same time, the discussions here during the off season about pitching didn't really didn't give any viable options except options that were going to be very expensive. Out of all the possible available FA pitchers, Happ is turning out to be the best, but could have missed signing him anyway.
Some of the AAA guys ARE ready and have shown that they are (Taillon & Kuhl), Brault & Williams are close, Glasnow needs more work and Boscan MIGHT be a bullpen arm.
Are we winning the WS with Ian Kennedy?
I will agree, quite a bit, that Neise wasn't the answer but I'm not sure any of the other options were the answer.
NH continued to say that Glasnow wasn't ready and needed to work on a number of things. However, people see gaudy ERA and strikeout numbers and declare the FO to be idiots and disinterested in winning. Low and behold, Glasnow does indeed, have things he is working on. Shocking. ::)
First of all, his shoulder was hurt which is much more telling of why he was completely off than any nonsense about him not being able to battle with a bad ML lineup... because he hasn't perfected a change-up.
Second of all, the FO is responsible for a pitcher with countless minor league starts not having a slide step as a 6'8" right hander. The incompetence of minor league instruction regarding that is very surprising. His clock to home is embarrassingly bad, and they've let him keep pitching that way through AAA. WHY?
Third, the FO is responsible for calling him up, not OBN
Lastly, the FO is responsible for blowing the offseason, and having to count on AAA prospects to save the season in July.
THE FO IS RESPONSIBLE, NOT FANS. Understand?
The bolded above is really the crux of the matter. Had NH obtained adequate/reliable starting pitching in the off-season the issues with Glasnow or any of our young pitching prospects would be moot. If the FO knew that Glasnow had issues that would prevent him from being effective out of the gate as a MLB starter then why go after a mediocre (and trending downward) Niese & Vogelsong, and long-shot reclamation projects like Nicasio as the only rotation insurance against having to rush Glasnow or any of the others. Seems in retrospect like a fairly risky gamble that has failed.
Yes the risky gamble failed but at the same time, the discussions here during the off season about pitching didn't really didn't give any viable options except options that were going to be very expensive. Out of all the possible available FA pitchers, Happ is turning out to be the best, but could have missed signing him anyway.
Some of the AAA guys ARE ready and have shown that they are (Taillon & Kuhl), Brault & Williams are close, Glasnow needs more work and Boscan MIGHT be a bullpen arm.
Are we winning the WS with Ian Kennedy?
I will agree, quite a bit, that Neise wasn't the answer but I'm not sure any of the other options were the answer.
Game thread 7/23 - Glasnow Home Debut
153A2D2C3A26343C5F0 wrote: I'm not sure why anyone is surprised at the results we've seen from Glasnow. At every level jump in his professional career, he has initially struggled. Every playoff game he has struggled. Clearly, it takes a little bit for him to emotionally catch up to the new moments and challenges. There are enough really calming presences on the MLB roster right now, they will help him come around.
NH continued to say that Glasnow wasn't ready and needed to work on a number of things. However, people see gaudy ERA and strikeout numbers and declare the FO to be idiots and disinterested in winning. Low and behold, Glasnow does indeed, have things he is working on. Shocking. ::)
First of all, his shoulder was hurt which is much more telling of why he was completely off than any nonsense about him not being able to battle with a bad ML lineup... because he hasn't perfected a change-up.
Second of all, the FO is responsible for a pitcher with countless minor league starts not having a slide step as a 6'8" right hander. The incompetence of minor league instruction regarding that is very surprising. His clock to home is embarrassingly bad, and they've let him keep pitching that way through AAA. WHY?
Third, the FO is responsible for calling him up, not OBN
Lastly, the FO is responsible for blowing the offseason, and having to count on AAA prospects to save the season in July.
THE FO IS RESPONSIBLE, NOT FANS. Understand?
The bolded above is really the crux of the matter. Had NH obtained adequate/reliable starting pitching in the off-season the issues with Glasnow or any of our young pitching prospects would be moot. If the FO knew that Glasnow had issues that would prevent him from being effective out of the gate as a MLB starter then why go after a mediocre (and trending downward) Niese & Vogelsong, and long-shot reclamation projects like Nicasio as the only rotation insurance against having to rush Glasnow or any of the others. Seems in retrospect like a fairly risky gamble that has failed.
Yes the risky gamble failed but at the same time, the discussions here during the off season about pitching didn't really didn't give any viable options except options that were going to be very expensive. Out of all the possible available FA pitchers, Happ is turning out to be the best, but could have missed signing him anyway.
Some of the AAA guys ARE ready and have shown that they are (Taillon & Kuhl), Brault & Williams are close, Glasnow needs more work and Boscan MIGHT be a bullpen arm.
Are we winning the WS with Ian Kennedy?
I will agree, quite a bit, that Neise wasn't the answer but I'm not sure any of the other options were the answer.
I have no doubt that there players available last off season that could have helped the team. However, the Bucs had self-limiting restrictions (not over x salary, not over x years of commitment,). Hopefully the team learned from this off season and it isn't repeated next year or the year after.
Right now (and a lot can change by end of year) the Bucs rotation 2017 rotation is going to have a lot of question marks. It seems to me that the team is going to have to bring in somebody better than Neise, Vogelsong, Locke, Nicasio to shore up next year's rotation.
And there will most likely be questions in bullpen if Melancon and or Feliz leave.
NH continued to say that Glasnow wasn't ready and needed to work on a number of things. However, people see gaudy ERA and strikeout numbers and declare the FO to be idiots and disinterested in winning. Low and behold, Glasnow does indeed, have things he is working on. Shocking. ::)
First of all, his shoulder was hurt which is much more telling of why he was completely off than any nonsense about him not being able to battle with a bad ML lineup... because he hasn't perfected a change-up.
Second of all, the FO is responsible for a pitcher with countless minor league starts not having a slide step as a 6'8" right hander. The incompetence of minor league instruction regarding that is very surprising. His clock to home is embarrassingly bad, and they've let him keep pitching that way through AAA. WHY?
Third, the FO is responsible for calling him up, not OBN
Lastly, the FO is responsible for blowing the offseason, and having to count on AAA prospects to save the season in July.
THE FO IS RESPONSIBLE, NOT FANS. Understand?
The bolded above is really the crux of the matter. Had NH obtained adequate/reliable starting pitching in the off-season the issues with Glasnow or any of our young pitching prospects would be moot. If the FO knew that Glasnow had issues that would prevent him from being effective out of the gate as a MLB starter then why go after a mediocre (and trending downward) Niese & Vogelsong, and long-shot reclamation projects like Nicasio as the only rotation insurance against having to rush Glasnow or any of the others. Seems in retrospect like a fairly risky gamble that has failed.
Yes the risky gamble failed but at the same time, the discussions here during the off season about pitching didn't really didn't give any viable options except options that were going to be very expensive. Out of all the possible available FA pitchers, Happ is turning out to be the best, but could have missed signing him anyway.
Some of the AAA guys ARE ready and have shown that they are (Taillon & Kuhl), Brault & Williams are close, Glasnow needs more work and Boscan MIGHT be a bullpen arm.
Are we winning the WS with Ian Kennedy?
I will agree, quite a bit, that Neise wasn't the answer but I'm not sure any of the other options were the answer.
I have no doubt that there players available last off season that could have helped the team. However, the Bucs had self-limiting restrictions (not over x salary, not over x years of commitment,). Hopefully the team learned from this off season and it isn't repeated next year or the year after.
Right now (and a lot can change by end of year) the Bucs rotation 2017 rotation is going to have a lot of question marks. It seems to me that the team is going to have to bring in somebody better than Neise, Vogelsong, Locke, Nicasio to shore up next year's rotation.
And there will most likely be questions in bullpen if Melancon and or Feliz leave.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Game thread 7/23 - Glasnow Home Debut
Before the season started I thought we'd see several rookies that would be important to the success of the season. They had AAA experience and seemed on the verge of contributing something. I've put an asterisk by the ones I thought would come up and need to contribute at some point:
*Bell
Brault
Boscan
*Diaz
*Frazier
*Glasnow
*Hanson
Kuhl
*Taillon
Stallings
You'd have to add these two as players who barely had any MLB experience that the FO was counting on to bring something too:
Rogers
Schugel
And I think we'll see Williams up before the season ends.
I don't think these names surprise anyone who was following minor league development. It obviously seemed to be a year where some transition was going to happen, and our more well established players needed to continue to play up to standard (but Cole, Cutch Kang and Liriano have all played well below expectations and Niese has been really bad) for everything to turn out. During preseason there was some worry about who might be blocked for another season -- as well as worry about adding the right parts.
Preseason might be seen as bad management. But transitioning a bunch of guys and getting their feet wet at the MLB level was a priority as well. Besides needing to get the right pitching mix, there was also a lot of talk about not blocking anyone.
It seems what to do next weighs more heavily than what happened in the preseason given how this season is progressing.
*Bell
Brault
Boscan
*Diaz
*Frazier
*Glasnow
*Hanson
Kuhl
*Taillon
Stallings
You'd have to add these two as players who barely had any MLB experience that the FO was counting on to bring something too:
Rogers
Schugel
And I think we'll see Williams up before the season ends.
I don't think these names surprise anyone who was following minor league development. It obviously seemed to be a year where some transition was going to happen, and our more well established players needed to continue to play up to standard (but Cole, Cutch Kang and Liriano have all played well below expectations and Niese has been really bad) for everything to turn out. During preseason there was some worry about who might be blocked for another season -- as well as worry about adding the right parts.
Preseason might be seen as bad management. But transitioning a bunch of guys and getting their feet wet at the MLB level was a priority as well. Besides needing to get the right pitching mix, there was also a lot of talk about not blocking anyone.
It seems what to do next weighs more heavily than what happened in the preseason given how this season is progressing.
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Steve19981
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:57 pm
Game thread 7/23 - Glasnow Home Debut
0A2C2D3A2C3C4F0 wrote:
I have no doubt that there players available last off season that could have helped the team. However, the Bucs had self-limiting restrictions (not over x salary, not over x years of commitment,). Hopefully the team learned from this off season and it isn't repeated next year or the year after.
Right now (and a lot can change by end of year) the Bucs rotation 2017 rotation is going to have a lot of question marks. It seems to me that the team is going to have to bring in somebody better than Neise, Vogelsong, Locke, Nicasio to shore up next year's rotation.
And there will most likely be questions in bullpen if Melancon and or Feliz leave.
Whether people want to admit it or not, this team has limited resources. Could they spend a little more? Probably, but probably not enough to make the impact people would like to think. Certainly not a enough to spend Locke, Vogelsong and Niese out of the rotation. Maybe they get one slot upgraded, but they're not going to sign three players. That doesn't even take into consideration the impact of an underperforming Francisco Liriano. I don't expect that to get any better next year with attendance down and the team operating under the same media agreement either.
I have no doubt that there players available last off season that could have helped the team. However, the Bucs had self-limiting restrictions (not over x salary, not over x years of commitment,). Hopefully the team learned from this off season and it isn't repeated next year or the year after.
Right now (and a lot can change by end of year) the Bucs rotation 2017 rotation is going to have a lot of question marks. It seems to me that the team is going to have to bring in somebody better than Neise, Vogelsong, Locke, Nicasio to shore up next year's rotation.
And there will most likely be questions in bullpen if Melancon and or Feliz leave.
Whether people want to admit it or not, this team has limited resources. Could they spend a little more? Probably, but probably not enough to make the impact people would like to think. Certainly not a enough to spend Locke, Vogelsong and Niese out of the rotation. Maybe they get one slot upgraded, but they're not going to sign three players. That doesn't even take into consideration the impact of an underperforming Francisco Liriano. I don't expect that to get any better next year with attendance down and the team operating under the same media agreement either.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Game thread 7/23 - Glasnow Home Debut
Huntington was talking about the deadline. He said how current guys are struggling and they could be a bigger boost than what is outside the organization. The players he mentioned were McCutchen, Liriano, Hughes, and Kang.
He said he also has to weigh in how a trade this year can affect 2017 and 2018.
I still expect one starter and one bullpen arm coming in. I say that as I thought that was the plan all along.
He said he also has to weigh in how a trade this year can affect 2017 and 2018.
I still expect one starter and one bullpen arm coming in. I say that as I thought that was the plan all along.
Game thread 7/23 - Glasnow Home Debut
1B3C2D3E2D7971717079480 wrote:
I have no doubt that there players available last off season that could have helped the team. However, the Bucs had self-limiting restrictions (not over x salary, not over x years of commitment,). Hopefully the team learned from this off season and it isn't repeated next year or the year after.
Right now (and a lot can change by end of year) the Bucs rotation 2017 rotation is going to have a lot of question marks. It seems to me that the team is going to have to bring in somebody better than Neise, Vogelsong, Locke, Nicasio to shore up next year's rotation.
And there will most likely be questions in bullpen if Melancon and or Feliz leave.
Whether people want to admit it or not, this team has limited resources. Could they spend a little more? Probably, but probably not enough to make the impact people would like to think. Certainly not a enough to spend Locke, Vogelsong and Niese out of the rotation. Maybe they get one slot upgraded, but they're not going to sign three players. That doesn't even take into consideration the impact of an underperforming Francisco Liriano. I don't expect that to get any better next year with attendance down and the team operating under the same media agreement either.
sorry, I do believe the limited resources however, I don't think they are a Tampa Bay. PNC Park was supposed to help quite a bit and it has compared to Three Rivers. Allocation of resources is important and the team could have dealt Walker for prospects, cut lose Locke (or dealt him for a prospect) or had other options to allocate payroll. How could they have gone into this season thinking that Taillon and Glasnow had more than a small chance of being positive contributors to the pitching staff? Especially after seeing in this thread the criticisms of Glasnow which the staff must have known more about than any fan.
I have no doubt that there players available last off season that could have helped the team. However, the Bucs had self-limiting restrictions (not over x salary, not over x years of commitment,). Hopefully the team learned from this off season and it isn't repeated next year or the year after.
Right now (and a lot can change by end of year) the Bucs rotation 2017 rotation is going to have a lot of question marks. It seems to me that the team is going to have to bring in somebody better than Neise, Vogelsong, Locke, Nicasio to shore up next year's rotation.
And there will most likely be questions in bullpen if Melancon and or Feliz leave.
Whether people want to admit it or not, this team has limited resources. Could they spend a little more? Probably, but probably not enough to make the impact people would like to think. Certainly not a enough to spend Locke, Vogelsong and Niese out of the rotation. Maybe they get one slot upgraded, but they're not going to sign three players. That doesn't even take into consideration the impact of an underperforming Francisco Liriano. I don't expect that to get any better next year with attendance down and the team operating under the same media agreement either.
sorry, I do believe the limited resources however, I don't think they are a Tampa Bay. PNC Park was supposed to help quite a bit and it has compared to Three Rivers. Allocation of resources is important and the team could have dealt Walker for prospects, cut lose Locke (or dealt him for a prospect) or had other options to allocate payroll. How could they have gone into this season thinking that Taillon and Glasnow had more than a small chance of being positive contributors to the pitching staff? Especially after seeing in this thread the criticisms of Glasnow which the staff must have known more about than any fan.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Game thread 7/23 - Glasnow Home Debut
I don't think they were counting on both Taillon and Glasnow. They were counting on Liriano and Niese and then just Taillon.
The Pirates are behind because of Liriano and Niese. If they were just average they would probably near the Cubs and up in the Wild Card.
Taillon was going to come up and replace the weakest link. It just happens that there were four weak links. No one expected that. So, another young guy is needed along with Taillon.
They are going to hope that Liriano turns it around. They will trade for another starter. But they still might need one of the other young guys too.
McCutchen and Kang improving can be huge as well. Harrison too. We just have to wait until the trade happens to see who they bring in.
The Pirates are behind because of Liriano and Niese. If they were just average they would probably near the Cubs and up in the Wild Card.
Taillon was going to come up and replace the weakest link. It just happens that there were four weak links. No one expected that. So, another young guy is needed along with Taillon.
They are going to hope that Liriano turns it around. They will trade for another starter. But they still might need one of the other young guys too.
McCutchen and Kang improving can be huge as well. Harrison too. We just have to wait until the trade happens to see who they bring in.