6F646C6065647F3A3C4B726A6364642568640B0 wrote: Unless the pitching staff performs dramatically different i don't see how anyone can be expecting anything beyond about .500. Until somebody can explain to me a real plan to upgrade the rotation then I think there's just a lot of hoping and wishing.
And counting on 4 arms from AAA is not a plan. That's what rebuilding teams do, not teams that are serious about contending.
Cole getting back to 2015 will improve the team. Taillon is not a random AAA arm. He is a top of the rotation type pitcher. He should be better with a year under his belt. You have to agree with that, right?
Kuhl is a wild card, but he looked good. Adding another starter through free agency or trade (hopefully, trade) can make a difference too. And then someone can be that 5th starter.
Glasnow will be the mid-season call up and maybe the 5th starter.
So, there is room for improvement even with four current players.
Tallion I'm very impressed with. I think Kuhl is a solid addition. If Cole is healthy and if he returns more or less to 2015 form then there is a good foundation to be added to. But they would need at least one good addition and really need two high end guys (let's cut the difference and say 2 #3s).
Not getting them through FA. So who do you trade? I think we're going to find the cost pretty steep for good starters.
2017 Outlook
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SammyKhalifa
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2017 Outlook
4A4D5B535D4A0D01785F55595154165B5755380 wrote: Unless the pitching staff performs dramatically different i don't see how anyone can be expecting anything beyond about .500. Until somebody can explain to me a real plan to upgrade the rotation then I think there's just a lot of hoping and wishing.
And counting on 4 arms from AAA is not a plan. That's what rebuilding teams do, not teams that are serious about contending.
Cole getting back to 2015 will improve the team. Taillon is not a random AAA arm. He is a top of the rotation type pitcher. He should be better with a year under his belt. You have to agree with that, right?
Kuhl is a wild card, but he looked good. Adding another starter through free agency or trade (hopefully, trade) can make a difference too. And then someone can be that 5th starter.
Glasnow will be the mid-season call up and maybe the 5th starter.
So, there is room for improvement even with four current players.
Tallion I'm very impressed with. I think Kuhl is a solid addition. If Cole is healthy and if he returns more or less to 2015 form then there is a good foundation to be added to. But they would need at least one good addition and really need two high end guys (let's cut the difference and say 2 #3s).
Not getting them through FA. So who do you trade? I think we're going to find the cost pretty steep for good starters.
Yeah I'd say we need two pitchers above and beyond what we already have in the oranization. Now how to get those without destroying other parts of the team? No idea.
And counting on 4 arms from AAA is not a plan. That's what rebuilding teams do, not teams that are serious about contending.
Cole getting back to 2015 will improve the team. Taillon is not a random AAA arm. He is a top of the rotation type pitcher. He should be better with a year under his belt. You have to agree with that, right?
Kuhl is a wild card, but he looked good. Adding another starter through free agency or trade (hopefully, trade) can make a difference too. And then someone can be that 5th starter.
Glasnow will be the mid-season call up and maybe the 5th starter.
So, there is room for improvement even with four current players.
Tallion I'm very impressed with. I think Kuhl is a solid addition. If Cole is healthy and if he returns more or less to 2015 form then there is a good foundation to be added to. But they would need at least one good addition and really need two high end guys (let's cut the difference and say 2 #3s).
Not getting them through FA. So who do you trade? I think we're going to find the cost pretty steep for good starters.
Yeah I'd say we need two pitchers above and beyond what we already have in the oranization. Now how to get those without destroying other parts of the team? No idea.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
2017 Outlook
I think they have to make a trade. This is the window. The current team isn't going anywhere as all are signed.
I would hate to trade Meadows, but he doesn't really have a spot in the next few years.
I would go after Archer in TB. Not sure what it will take, but they need talent. A few minor leaguers and maybe Frazier...I don't know.
They need at least one good starter. The young guys can fill in the rest.
I would hate to trade Meadows, but he doesn't really have a spot in the next few years.
I would go after Archer in TB. Not sure what it will take, but they need talent. A few minor leaguers and maybe Frazier...I don't know.
They need at least one good starter. The young guys can fill in the rest.
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Bobster21
2017 Outlook
Here's an article in the Trib about the 2017 outlook.
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1130 ... ngton-ball
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1130 ... ngton-ball
2017 Outlook
Interesting article. They talk about Pittsburgh changing defensive alignments (outfielders) only to find that the pitchers are not producing the same way (more fly balls, less ground balls). Since they signed fly ball pitchers that makes sense. What doesn't is why they didn't adjust the defense as the season went on and they could see what was happening? I can't believe that is something that can only be addressed in the off-season.
2017 Outlook
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I have hope. I mean, without hope, why watch? Why be a fan? I honestly don't think we're that far away. I do believe that the rotation needs work...a lot of work. If his last start indicates that he's turned a corner, Glasnow could go a long way towards shoring that rotation up. But, as I said at the outset, we'll go as far as #22 and #45 take us. They're the stars. No amount of rotation tweaking would have made this a playoff team with Cutch and Cole having the same years they had.
On a different note though, I'm hungry. I was thinking about this the other day. On average, a team should win the World Series once every 30 years. They should get to the World Series once every 15 years. Get to the NLCS once every 7.5 years, or twice every 15 years. Win the division once every 5 years. On average.
Our last WS title and appearance was 37 years ago. We're 7 years past when, on average, we should have won a WS. We should have been in two since then. Our last NLCS appearance was 24 years ago. We should have been in three of them in that time frame. Likewise, our last division title was 24 years ago. We should have at least four, probably five, in that time frame. I realize this is sort of rudimentary. But, still, the math works. While I have hope, I still want to know...when's it going to be our turn?
On a different note though, I'm hungry. I was thinking about this the other day. On average, a team should win the World Series once every 30 years. They should get to the World Series once every 15 years. Get to the NLCS once every 7.5 years, or twice every 15 years. Win the division once every 5 years. On average.
Our last WS title and appearance was 37 years ago. We're 7 years past when, on average, we should have won a WS. We should have been in two since then. Our last NLCS appearance was 24 years ago. We should have been in three of them in that time frame. Likewise, our last division title was 24 years ago. We should have at least four, probably five, in that time frame. I realize this is sort of rudimentary. But, still, the math works. While I have hope, I still want to know...when's it going to be our turn?
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rucker59@gmail.com
2017 Outlook
664B46575041561615240 wrote: Here's an article in the Trib about the 2017 outlook.
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1130 ... ngton-ball
Thanks for sharing this. Bottomline - it looks like the Pirates have to do this internally. Not much of a chance that the Calvary is going to be riding into Pittsburgh to save the day.
There were several other links to good articles. Especially see this one re Cole - it looks like I'm not crazy after all: the Pirates do not seem very "high" on their ace. A trade chip?
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1126 ... tes-season
Something in the tone of the article makes me wonder if the Pirates are questioning Cole's priorities - did he quit on the team late season? The whole inflamed elbow story played out kind of weird.
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1130 ... ngton-ball
Thanks for sharing this. Bottomline - it looks like the Pirates have to do this internally. Not much of a chance that the Calvary is going to be riding into Pittsburgh to save the day.
There were several other links to good articles. Especially see this one re Cole - it looks like I'm not crazy after all: the Pirates do not seem very "high" on their ace. A trade chip?
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1126 ... tes-season
Something in the tone of the article makes me wonder if the Pirates are questioning Cole's priorities - did he quit on the team late season? The whole inflamed elbow story played out kind of weird.
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rucker59@gmail.com
2017 Outlook
6062787E680D0 wrote: 
Tell that to Cubs fans.
I'm actually kind of dreading the next 70 years....
Tell that to Cubs fans.I'm actually kind of dreading the next 70 years....
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rucker59@gmail.com
2017 Outlook
282023140227000F610 wrote: Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I have hope. I mean, without hope, why watch? Why be a fan? I honestly don't think we're that far away. I do believe that the rotation needs work...a lot of work. If his last start indicates that he's turned a corner, Glasnow could go a long way towards shoring that rotation up. But, as I said at the outset, we'll go as far as #22 and #45 take us. They're the stars. No amount of rotation tweaking would have made this a playoff team with Cutch and Cole having the same years they had.
On a different note though, I'm hungry. I was thinking about this the other day. On average, a team should win the World Series once every 30 years. They should get to the World Series once every 15 years. Get to the NLCS once every 7.5 years, or twice every 15 years. Win the division once every 5 years. On average.
Our last WS title and appearance was 37 years ago. We're 7 years past when, on average, we should have won a WS. We should have been in two since then. Our last NLCS appearance was 24 years ago. We should have been in three of them in that time frame. Likewise, our last division title was 24 years ago. We should have at least four, probably five, in that time frame. I realize this is sort of rudimentary. But, still, the math works. While I have hope, I still want to know...when's it going to be our turn?
I'm always hopeful, even as I am turning into a realist. The first 2 game winning streak next season and I'll be certain they're going to win the division.
So I hate to be a killjoy on here, but I'm learning to call a spade a spade. For whatever the reason may be, the FO does not even have the money that other "small Mkt" teams have. This seems like a broken "promise" in light of the VERY good team they developed with a small payroll. You listed all the years that have passed since the last championship - that's what made the past two years (including and maybe especially the 98 win season) so frustrating - we were SO CLOSE and I think we all now feel it slipping away. When there was an outstanding opportunity they didn't finish the team. They just didn't.
And now it's going to be much harder to get that championship. It's no longer about "one more quality starter", now it's most of the rotation, it's most of the bullpen including closer, it's centerfield and frankly many positions - this is no longer a team that's "really close".
Now we're all seeing how hard it is to be a really good team. We're seeing chemistry that's no longer so magical. The magic seems to be gone from ABs. Average (or less) pitchers aren't magically turning into stars any longer.
I still love the Buccos. I'll still be at most games. I hope I get to eat every word of criticism I offer up. But its really hard to ignore the impact when this team doesn't even have the resources of the rest of the small mkt. It's hard for me to believe they don't have those resources, it just looks like they chose to not let Neal have the same opportunity that any other GM would have. I think Mr Nutting is soon going to feel the impact of magic leaving the stands.
Of course, I fully expect the fans to be blamed....
On a different note though, I'm hungry. I was thinking about this the other day. On average, a team should win the World Series once every 30 years. They should get to the World Series once every 15 years. Get to the NLCS once every 7.5 years, or twice every 15 years. Win the division once every 5 years. On average.
Our last WS title and appearance was 37 years ago. We're 7 years past when, on average, we should have won a WS. We should have been in two since then. Our last NLCS appearance was 24 years ago. We should have been in three of them in that time frame. Likewise, our last division title was 24 years ago. We should have at least four, probably five, in that time frame. I realize this is sort of rudimentary. But, still, the math works. While I have hope, I still want to know...when's it going to be our turn?
I'm always hopeful, even as I am turning into a realist. The first 2 game winning streak next season and I'll be certain they're going to win the division.
So I hate to be a killjoy on here, but I'm learning to call a spade a spade. For whatever the reason may be, the FO does not even have the money that other "small Mkt" teams have. This seems like a broken "promise" in light of the VERY good team they developed with a small payroll. You listed all the years that have passed since the last championship - that's what made the past two years (including and maybe especially the 98 win season) so frustrating - we were SO CLOSE and I think we all now feel it slipping away. When there was an outstanding opportunity they didn't finish the team. They just didn't.
And now it's going to be much harder to get that championship. It's no longer about "one more quality starter", now it's most of the rotation, it's most of the bullpen including closer, it's centerfield and frankly many positions - this is no longer a team that's "really close".
Now we're all seeing how hard it is to be a really good team. We're seeing chemistry that's no longer so magical. The magic seems to be gone from ABs. Average (or less) pitchers aren't magically turning into stars any longer.
I still love the Buccos. I'll still be at most games. I hope I get to eat every word of criticism I offer up. But its really hard to ignore the impact when this team doesn't even have the resources of the rest of the small mkt. It's hard for me to believe they don't have those resources, it just looks like they chose to not let Neal have the same opportunity that any other GM would have. I think Mr Nutting is soon going to feel the impact of magic leaving the stands.
Of course, I fully expect the fans to be blamed....