Is Keith Law wrong now or at the beginning of the season? Time will tell, but funny how one can change their opinion so much in half a season.
What do you think? I didn't just listen to one "expert" when I stated my opinion.
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Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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OrlandoMerced
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Law also took Taillon off of his list before last season. He seems to weigh injury concerns too high.
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CarolinaBucco
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After giving this a lot of thought, I would do the following (assuming we don't come out of the gate 10-0 and looking like a different team, one that could win the pennant):
* Trade Cole (for a king's ransom)
* Keep Cutch
Because I think Cole is, for the most part, much closer to "frustrating" than he is to "very good." I think Neal could trade Cole and still make legitimate plans to win big in 2018.
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I would hold onto Cutch with the intention of winning in 2018. He might not be the hottest hitter in baseball next season (as he's been for the last 6 weeks), but I'm betting on him still being a "very good" hitter next year.
On a related note, I would also make a fair-market, legitimate, serious offer to extend Cutch beyond 2018 so that he can retire a Pirate. Let's say 4 years. I would base that decision on the following timeframe.
2019: I will still have a very good player
2020: I will still have an above average player
2021 and 2022: He might not have much left but he is still an all-time great Pirate, he might have a statue at the ballpark one day soon, and I'm basically willing to pay him these final two years simply as a THANK YOU for all that you have done for this franchise.
That's what I would do. I know I'm in the minority, so fire away.
And I also know there's no way the Pirates will do it -- EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD EASILY AFFORD IT.
* Trade Cole (for a king's ransom)
* Keep Cutch
Because I think Cole is, for the most part, much closer to "frustrating" than he is to "very good." I think Neal could trade Cole and still make legitimate plans to win big in 2018.
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I would hold onto Cutch with the intention of winning in 2018. He might not be the hottest hitter in baseball next season (as he's been for the last 6 weeks), but I'm betting on him still being a "very good" hitter next year.
On a related note, I would also make a fair-market, legitimate, serious offer to extend Cutch beyond 2018 so that he can retire a Pirate. Let's say 4 years. I would base that decision on the following timeframe.
2019: I will still have a very good player
2020: I will still have an above average player
2021 and 2022: He might not have much left but he is still an all-time great Pirate, he might have a statue at the ballpark one day soon, and I'm basically willing to pay him these final two years simply as a THANK YOU for all that you have done for this franchise.
That's what I would do. I know I'm in the minority, so fire away.
And I also know there's no way the Pirates will do it -- EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD EASILY AFFORD IT.
Positive Thought
1032213C3F3A3D32112630303C530 wrote: After giving this a lot of thought, I would do the following (assuming we don't come out of the gate 10-0 and looking like a different team, one that could win the pennant):
* Trade Cole (for a king's ransom)
* Keep Cutch
Because I think Cole is, for the most part, much closer to "frustrating" than he is to "very good." I think Neal could trade Cole and still make legitimate plans to win big in 2018.
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I would hold onto Cutch with the intention of winning in 2018. He might not be the hottest hitter in baseball next season (as he's been for the last 6 weeks), but I'm betting on him still being a "very good" hitter next year.
On a related note, I would also make a fair-market, legitimate, serious offer to extend Cutch beyond 2018 so that he can retire a Pirate. Let's say 4 years. I would base that decision on the following timeframe.
2019: I will still have a very good player
2020: I will still have an above average player
2021 and 2022: He might not have much left but he is still an all-time great Pirate, he might have a statue at the ballpark one day soon, and I'm basically willing to pay him these final two years simply as a THANK YOU for all that you have done for this franchise.
That's what I would do. I know I'm in the minority, so fire away.
And I also know there's no way the Pirates will do it -- EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD EASILY AFFORD IT.
I couldn't agree with you more. I would make a 4 year deal to Cutch also. You're thoughts on Cole are exactly the same as mine. He is way to inconsistent. I would trade him when he has the most value.
* Trade Cole (for a king's ransom)
* Keep Cutch
Because I think Cole is, for the most part, much closer to "frustrating" than he is to "very good." I think Neal could trade Cole and still make legitimate plans to win big in 2018.
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I would hold onto Cutch with the intention of winning in 2018. He might not be the hottest hitter in baseball next season (as he's been for the last 6 weeks), but I'm betting on him still being a "very good" hitter next year.
On a related note, I would also make a fair-market, legitimate, serious offer to extend Cutch beyond 2018 so that he can retire a Pirate. Let's say 4 years. I would base that decision on the following timeframe.
2019: I will still have a very good player
2020: I will still have an above average player
2021 and 2022: He might not have much left but he is still an all-time great Pirate, he might have a statue at the ballpark one day soon, and I'm basically willing to pay him these final two years simply as a THANK YOU for all that you have done for this franchise.
That's what I would do. I know I'm in the minority, so fire away.
And I also know there's no way the Pirates will do it -- EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD EASILY AFFORD IT.
I couldn't agree with you more. I would make a 4 year deal to Cutch also. You're thoughts on Cole are exactly the same as mine. He is way to inconsistent. I would trade him when he has the most value.
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303B333F3A3B206563142D353C3B3B7A373B540 wrote: Is Keith Law wrong now or at the beginning of the season? Time will tell, but funny how one can change their opinion so much in half a season.
What do you think? I didn't just listen to one "expert" when I stated my opinion.
So things can't change? How about he has another significant injury and wasn't hitting well before that? I'm not saying Meadows won't be good, I just wouldn't have made him untouchable. Especially when our outfield is set.
What do you think? I didn't just listen to one "expert" when I stated my opinion.
So things can't change? How about he has another significant injury and wasn't hitting well before that? I'm not saying Meadows won't be good, I just wouldn't have made him untouchable. Especially when our outfield is set.
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082A39242722252A093E2828244B0 wrote: After giving this a lot of thought, I would do the following (assuming we don't come out of the gate 10-0 and looking like a different team, one that could win the pennant):
* Trade Cole (for a king's ransom)
* Keep Cutch
Because I think Cole is, for the most part, much closer to "frustrating" than he is to "very good." I think Neal could trade Cole and still make legitimate plans to win big in 2018.
I agree about Cole. I've said before that I think his emotions on the mound get him into trouble. He may be able to learn to control those emotions, but it is not encouraging that after quite a bit of ML experience, it's still a problem for him. It is a risk to trade him because TOR pitchers are the hardest thing for the Bucs to acquire. Cole, Mercer, & Newman to the Nats for AJ Cole & Trea Turner?
I disagree on Cutch. His traditional slow starts, last season, and his worse-than-slow start this year make him a real risk to perform at the levels you predict for him. I think it would be reasonable to cash in on his scorching 6 weeks. Personally, I love cheering for the guy and would hate to see him go. But at this point, we just don't know if that cold stretch was on outlier or if this hot streak is the outlier. That said, I think the Bucs will keep him. If they hope to compete in '18, they need to keep him and for him to play like his MVP self. Even if Meadows came up, he won't put up Cutch numbers in his first year - if he ever manages it. If Polanco was tearing up the league and looking like a future MVP, it would be a different story.
* Trade Cole (for a king's ransom)
* Keep Cutch
Because I think Cole is, for the most part, much closer to "frustrating" than he is to "very good." I think Neal could trade Cole and still make legitimate plans to win big in 2018.
I agree about Cole. I've said before that I think his emotions on the mound get him into trouble. He may be able to learn to control those emotions, but it is not encouraging that after quite a bit of ML experience, it's still a problem for him. It is a risk to trade him because TOR pitchers are the hardest thing for the Bucs to acquire. Cole, Mercer, & Newman to the Nats for AJ Cole & Trea Turner?
I disagree on Cutch. His traditional slow starts, last season, and his worse-than-slow start this year make him a real risk to perform at the levels you predict for him. I think it would be reasonable to cash in on his scorching 6 weeks. Personally, I love cheering for the guy and would hate to see him go. But at this point, we just don't know if that cold stretch was on outlier or if this hot streak is the outlier. That said, I think the Bucs will keep him. If they hope to compete in '18, they need to keep him and for him to play like his MVP self. Even if Meadows came up, he won't put up Cutch numbers in his first year - if he ever manages it. If Polanco was tearing up the league and looking like a future MVP, it would be a different story.
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You're all out of your mind to trade Cole. His value is lower than ever with a bunch of dumb luck crazy bad HR/FB rates over half of this season. Trading him is madness. Look at his career numbers for 30 seconds please.
Who the heck else are you going to plug into this rotation? GLASNOW? Oh wait, Nick Kingham? Oooh Trevor Williams?
Come on, get real. Starting pitching is by far the single most expensive thing in the game. Thinking the pirates would (or even should) think about trading a cheap, effective starter with years of control left is off the reservation.
Who the heck else are you going to plug into this rotation? GLASNOW? Oh wait, Nick Kingham? Oooh Trevor Williams?
Come on, get real. Starting pitching is by far the single most expensive thing in the game. Thinking the pirates would (or even should) think about trading a cheap, effective starter with years of control left is off the reservation.
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46475C4D5B1B1C280 wrote: Is Keith Law wrong now or at the beginning of the season? Time will tell, but funny how one can change their opinion so much in half a season.
What do you think? I didn't just listen to one "expert" when I stated my opinion.
So things can't change? How about he has another significant injury and wasn't hitting well before that? I'm not saying Meadows won't be good, I just wouldn't have made him untouchable. Especially when our outfield is set.
Things only change when the FO changes their stance on a player.
What do you think? I didn't just listen to one "expert" when I stated my opinion.
So things can't change? How about he has another significant injury and wasn't hitting well before that? I'm not saying Meadows won't be good, I just wouldn't have made him untouchable. Especially when our outfield is set.
Things only change when the FO changes their stance on a player.
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717870616F150 wrote: You're all out of your mind to trade Cole. His value is lower than ever with a bunch of dumb luck crazy bad HR/FB rates over half of this season. Trading him is madness. Look at his career numbers for 30 seconds please.
Who the heck else are you going to plug into this rotation? GLASNOW? Oh wait, Nick Kingham? Oooh Trevor Williams?
Come on, get real. Starting pitching is by far the single most expensive thing in the game. Thinking the pirates would (or even should) think about trading a cheap, effective starter with years of control left is off the reservation.
I'd trade Cole if someone offered the right return, but I agree - teams trade at the deadline for performance NOW. He's not exactly at the apex of his career. I WOULD trade him at the earliest opportunity(FOR VALUE, not just to do it), though, as I think what we see is what we will get - an erratic pitcher who will never live up to his amazing talent.
I'd trade Cutch in a hot second. His value will NEVER be higher. He's in his 30's and his knees are so bad he gave up stealing bases. They moved him out of center field. He went into the dumpster for A YEAR AND A HALF. Don't be sentimental. He WILL go back into the dumpster, and we'll be the biggest fools in baseball for not having taken advantage of his momentary return to form.
Spend multi-millions so you can erect a statue to an outfielder who stood at 1st, hit .220 and earned Oh-My-God-million at the end of his career? Cutch is the epitome of the guy we need to avoid: High cost contract, on the declining slope of his career. We'll be paying him for his previous performance and we'll get old man/bad knees performance. We need to trade him. He did us an AMAZING favor and found his swing just when we needed him to. Given the way this front-office operates, I think they will. I hope they don't worry about the fan reaction too much. If they do their job and get VALUE back for him, the fans will be happy again in a year or two, and for several years after that.
Seriously, put another name on Cutch. Imagine that, instead of him coming up through our minors, we just traded for him. Joe Smith from the Rangers. Great! Ride out his hot bat, maybe get to the post-season, right? I'd question the timing of trading for another piece, when it would have been better done in past years, but he has a hot bat, can't deny that. But would you REALLY want to sign him to a big-figure, several-year contract beyond that? Joe Smith, former base-stealing threat and MVP from the Rangers, now with bad knees and who mysteriously goes into season-long slumps?
Guess it all comes down to how you think he'll age. I honestly thought he'd age well, but the past 2-3 years have made me question that.
Who the heck else are you going to plug into this rotation? GLASNOW? Oh wait, Nick Kingham? Oooh Trevor Williams?
Come on, get real. Starting pitching is by far the single most expensive thing in the game. Thinking the pirates would (or even should) think about trading a cheap, effective starter with years of control left is off the reservation.
I'd trade Cole if someone offered the right return, but I agree - teams trade at the deadline for performance NOW. He's not exactly at the apex of his career. I WOULD trade him at the earliest opportunity(FOR VALUE, not just to do it), though, as I think what we see is what we will get - an erratic pitcher who will never live up to his amazing talent.
I'd trade Cutch in a hot second. His value will NEVER be higher. He's in his 30's and his knees are so bad he gave up stealing bases. They moved him out of center field. He went into the dumpster for A YEAR AND A HALF. Don't be sentimental. He WILL go back into the dumpster, and we'll be the biggest fools in baseball for not having taken advantage of his momentary return to form.
Spend multi-millions so you can erect a statue to an outfielder who stood at 1st, hit .220 and earned Oh-My-God-million at the end of his career? Cutch is the epitome of the guy we need to avoid: High cost contract, on the declining slope of his career. We'll be paying him for his previous performance and we'll get old man/bad knees performance. We need to trade him. He did us an AMAZING favor and found his swing just when we needed him to. Given the way this front-office operates, I think they will. I hope they don't worry about the fan reaction too much. If they do their job and get VALUE back for him, the fans will be happy again in a year or two, and for several years after that.
Seriously, put another name on Cutch. Imagine that, instead of him coming up through our minors, we just traded for him. Joe Smith from the Rangers. Great! Ride out his hot bat, maybe get to the post-season, right? I'd question the timing of trading for another piece, when it would have been better done in past years, but he has a hot bat, can't deny that. But would you REALLY want to sign him to a big-figure, several-year contract beyond that? Joe Smith, former base-stealing threat and MVP from the Rangers, now with bad knees and who mysteriously goes into season-long slumps?
Guess it all comes down to how you think he'll age. I honestly thought he'd age well, but the past 2-3 years have made me question that.
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SteadyFreddy
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We have a GM who refuses to trade prospects to upgrade the Major League team that's the big problem here. And until that changes nothing will.