For how "tough" AJ Burnett was he never retaliated either. I just hope hard slides all around the next two days. I would love to see a hard slide into first base or a shoulder thrown. Make it even worse so the league recognizes it. It was a force play, no reason to slide.
Don't forget that the sliding rule into the bases wasn't because of the Cubs and Kang. It was changed due to Chase Utley's hard slide.
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
I agree with you Dog. This lack of baseball toughness has been an organizational flaw for years. It's not that hard and not that big of a deal. When Chapman squares up Cutch, you retaliate next pitch. When Rizzo takes out Diaz illegally (I don't even think it was "dirty" per say, but it was 100% illegal. he hooked him very low on the leg, almost the foot, spikes down.)
Who cares? it's not that big of a deal. Don't talk about it, don't jaw with the other team, just take the ball and "thud" right into him.
All the dancing and jawing and back and forth makes it all much more complicated than it needs to be. Just hit the guy. If you're ejected, so be it. If not, take the mound and pitch. If he charges, get a good shot or two in before the scrum. Oh well.
You want to slide illegally to break up a double play? No problem, you're getting bruised up. Don't want the bruise, don't do it again.
Who cares? it's not that big of a deal. Don't talk about it, don't jaw with the other team, just take the ball and "thud" right into him.
All the dancing and jawing and back and forth makes it all much more complicated than it needs to be. Just hit the guy. If you're ejected, so be it. If not, take the mound and pitch. If he charges, get a good shot or two in before the scrum. Oh well.
You want to slide illegally to break up a double play? No problem, you're getting bruised up. Don't want the bruise, don't do it again.
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SteadyFreddy
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
I’m still hitting him tonight. I don’t think the Pirates can just sit back and do nothing and take it. I really will question this teams heart if they don’t retaliate at some point and drill Rizzo.
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
This is how it will likely go down tonight:
A day has now passed, and the Bucs have been able to measure the feel of public opinion. Most baseball insiders know Rizzo was in the wrong, and this was a play that warranted some on field justice (something a dugout full of baseball lifers should have known intrinsically).
The advanced analytics side of the Bucs will probably say, “if Rizzo comes to bat in the first inning with 2 out and none on, we will hit him. Otherwise, statistics show it is not to our best advantage to put him on base.”
Forget that statistical crap. Kingham is in a tough position tonight. But, he has an opportunity to be that Dog that bites you as pup. Leaders lead when the time says now. Here is his chance.
A day has now passed, and the Bucs have been able to measure the feel of public opinion. Most baseball insiders know Rizzo was in the wrong, and this was a play that warranted some on field justice (something a dugout full of baseball lifers should have known intrinsically).
The advanced analytics side of the Bucs will probably say, “if Rizzo comes to bat in the first inning with 2 out and none on, we will hit him. Otherwise, statistics show it is not to our best advantage to put him on base.”
Forget that statistical crap. Kingham is in a tough position tonight. But, he has an opportunity to be that Dog that bites you as pup. Leaders lead when the time says now. Here is his chance.
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
I don't see how you can say baseball insiders think Rizzo was wrong. The umps, replay and analysts for MLB say he was ok. I think he was wrong and want the Bucs to slide hard into any cub they can. But apparently it was legal. to me this is example of a bad rule
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
05022E392F4C0 wrote: This is how it will likely go down tonight:
A day has now passed, and the Bucs have been able to measure the feel of public opinion. Most baseball insiders know Rizzo was in the wrong, and this was a play that warranted some on field justice (something a dugout full of baseball lifers should have known intrinsically).
The advanced analytics side of the Bucs will probably say, “if Rizzo comes to bat in the first inning with 2 out and none on, we will hit him. Otherwise, statistics show it is not to our best advantage to put him on base.”
Forget that statistical crap. Kingham is in a tough position tonight. But, he has an opportunity to be that Dog that bites you as pup. Leaders lead when the time says now. Here is his chance.
The trouble is if Kingham hits him, he will be ejected and a game we're not exactly odds on favorites to win anyway will be that much harder to win.
IMO I really don't care about losing the game (in this case) all that much because we're not going anywhere meaningful as a team anyway. I think it's always more important to do the right thing when you're playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle anyway. The team has lost a huge amount of face and morale by botching this yesterday, and that will probably cost them more games anyway.
The team really screwed Kingham too by putting him in this spot. Here's a kid that desperately just wants MLB time, has earned MLB time, needs the increased pay of about $1500 per game being on the 25 man vs the 40 man... and he's been put into a position where he will get ejected and possibly fined by the league for doing what a REAL team would have done last night.
It sucks all around. For Kingham, for Diaz, and for the club. Not the end of the world though. This shall pass. Hopefully the team can pull out of this nosedive and get back to an even keel.
A day has now passed, and the Bucs have been able to measure the feel of public opinion. Most baseball insiders know Rizzo was in the wrong, and this was a play that warranted some on field justice (something a dugout full of baseball lifers should have known intrinsically).
The advanced analytics side of the Bucs will probably say, “if Rizzo comes to bat in the first inning with 2 out and none on, we will hit him. Otherwise, statistics show it is not to our best advantage to put him on base.”
Forget that statistical crap. Kingham is in a tough position tonight. But, he has an opportunity to be that Dog that bites you as pup. Leaders lead when the time says now. Here is his chance.
The trouble is if Kingham hits him, he will be ejected and a game we're not exactly odds on favorites to win anyway will be that much harder to win.
IMO I really don't care about losing the game (in this case) all that much because we're not going anywhere meaningful as a team anyway. I think it's always more important to do the right thing when you're playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle anyway. The team has lost a huge amount of face and morale by botching this yesterday, and that will probably cost them more games anyway.
The team really screwed Kingham too by putting him in this spot. Here's a kid that desperately just wants MLB time, has earned MLB time, needs the increased pay of about $1500 per game being on the 25 man vs the 40 man... and he's been put into a position where he will get ejected and possibly fined by the league for doing what a REAL team would have done last night.
It sucks all around. For Kingham, for Diaz, and for the club. Not the end of the world though. This shall pass. Hopefully the team can pull out of this nosedive and get back to an even keel.
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
He might, but I think it more likely both teams would get a warning and then our guys would be protected. We shall see.
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
5E59756274170 wrote: He might, but I think it more likely both teams would get a warning and then our guys would be protected. We shall see.
There is a good chance that the umps will issue a warning before the game unless they feel everyone has cooled down and there won't be retaliation.
There is a good chance that the umps will issue a warning before the game unless they feel everyone has cooled down and there won't be retaliation.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
I would expect a warning if Kingham hit Rizzo. I agree it is tough for a rookie to be put in that position. As long there is no fight, I doubt there would be a suspension. The fines will be paid by the millionaires on the team.
The problem is that the Pirates will look like the ones who started it. The slide was legal by the umpires and by the league's office. The Pirates will come off as babies in all of this.
I'd like to see Hurdle bring it up again. He needs to be more vocal. He was vocal, good rant, but keep doing it. Kang years ago and now Diaz. It's the same team acting out, there is a pattern.
The problem is that the Pirates will look like the ones who started it. The slide was legal by the umpires and by the league's office. The Pirates will come off as babies in all of this.
I'd like to see Hurdle bring it up again. He needs to be more vocal. He was vocal, good rant, but keep doing it. Kang years ago and now Diaz. It's the same team acting out, there is a pattern.
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Bobster21
Game Thread: 5-28-18 Bucs vs. Cubs, Memorial Day
1B3D3C2B3D2D5E0 wrote: I don't see how you can say baseball insiders think Rizzo was wrong. The umps, replay and analysts for MLB say he was ok. I think he was wrong and want the Bucs to slide hard into any cub they can. But apparently it was legal. to me this is example of a bad rule
Rule 7.13 states A runner may not run out of a direct line to the plate in order to initiate contact with the catcher, or any player, covering the plate. If he does, the umpire can call him out even if the player taking the throw loses possession of the ball.
Rizzo changed his path from the direct line he was on from 3B to home in order to slide in FRONT of the plate so that he could make contact with Diaz. He ended up in front of and perpendicular to the plate as he touched it with his arms while using his legs to go after Diaz's ankles. Rizzo admitted he was trying to break up the DP. So he admitted he was not just trying to get to the plate but he was also trying to make contact with Diaz. Diaz was not on the plate. He had stepped in front of it to avoid the contact the Rizzo forced by deviating from his path. A few years ago, I would have called that a heads up, smart play by Rizzo. But after someone did that to Buster Posey and broke his leg, MLB deemed it illegal. This is not the first time umps got something wrong or replay did not correct a bad call. The video is plain as day. The slide was illegal. The umps and replay blew it. At least Diaz did not get hurt as Rizzo changed his course to admittedly go after him (to break up the DP). I guess according to those umps and replay, it's open season on catchers. Unless Posey gets hurt again.
Rule 7.13 states A runner may not run out of a direct line to the plate in order to initiate contact with the catcher, or any player, covering the plate. If he does, the umpire can call him out even if the player taking the throw loses possession of the ball.
Rizzo changed his path from the direct line he was on from 3B to home in order to slide in FRONT of the plate so that he could make contact with Diaz. He ended up in front of and perpendicular to the plate as he touched it with his arms while using his legs to go after Diaz's ankles. Rizzo admitted he was trying to break up the DP. So he admitted he was not just trying to get to the plate but he was also trying to make contact with Diaz. Diaz was not on the plate. He had stepped in front of it to avoid the contact the Rizzo forced by deviating from his path. A few years ago, I would have called that a heads up, smart play by Rizzo. But after someone did that to Buster Posey and broke his leg, MLB deemed it illegal. This is not the first time umps got something wrong or replay did not correct a bad call. The video is plain as day. The slide was illegal. The umps and replay blew it. At least Diaz did not get hurt as Rizzo changed his course to admittedly go after him (to break up the DP). I guess according to those umps and replay, it's open season on catchers. Unless Posey gets hurt again.