OnlyBucs

040C0F382E0B2C234D0 wrote: Well, that was disappointing. But I don't really fault Hurdle for that. I suppose you could make the case that he should have gone to Lyons earlier. But would you rather have Pence face the lefty Lyons or the righty Feliz? Without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I'd rather he face Feliz. It's frustrating when that many guys are not available in your bullpen. Maybe they should have DL'd Kela and lengthened their bullpen a little bit.
This attitude is why the Pirates haven't won a championship in years.  You don't give away any game, a game like this can cost you many more games.  To sit and watch Feliz haplessness and not be ready to make a move is absurd.  That's kind of what you have a manager for, to manage situations.  So frustrating to see anyone support such stupidity makes me sick.


Well aren't you a breath of fresh air...
Rationalizing Hurdles ineptness is just the same old air I've been forced to breathe for years.  Not my job to excuse or overlook CH ineptness. 


I couldn’t care less what you think of Clint Hurdle.
Apparently neither does CH nor NH nor the Nuttings, but maybe just maybe real fans will quit coming out to support the garbage we witnessed today.

One more thing as well if both Archer and Taillon are going to be out for awhile the Pirates need to call Mitch Keller up and put him in the rotation. He is 3-0 with an ERA a little over 3 at AAA. Bring him up and let him pitch. They can’t do what they did these two games with the Rangers with both Brault and Kingham where they both only pitch 4 innings and are allowed to only throw a certain amount of pitches. Keller needs to be brought up and given a chance at some point.

70574642475A65514647475A230 wrote: Hurdle managed this game like it was a throwaway game against a bad team. He got arrogant and stupid and thought the bullpen could hold a 4 run lead so he puts Minor League caliber pitching out there trying to get the win while saving his good relievers. You never take any win for granted and Hurdle does way too many times and would rather rests guys then win a game on a certain day it’s truly remarkable how many times this continues to happen with Hurdle. They had an off day on Monday are both Crick and Vazquez really that tired that they both couldn’t pitch on consecutive days like Clint kept saying after the game. Gimmie a break.
So true, I can't count the number of times I've witnessed something much like this games happening in the past. No real baseball person could justify resting relievers who had only pitched 1 day in the past 3 days and a day off coming tomorrow. Just ludicrous. This game was won and CH just gave it away. There's more to come and I am fed up and sooooo tired of the excuses.

4B535156564150574A4B5D380 wrote: Hurdle managed this game like it was a throwaway game against a bad team. He got arrogant and stupid and thought the bullpen could hold a 4 run lead so he puts Minor League caliber pitching out there trying to get the win while saving his good relievers. You never take any win for granted and Hurdle does way too many times and would rather rests guys then win a game on a certain day it’s truly remarkable how many times this continues to happen with Hurdle. They had an off day on Monday are both Crick and Vazquez really that tired that they both couldn’t pitch on consecutive days like Clint kept saying after the game. Gimmie a break.
So true, I can't count the number of times I've witnessed something much like this games happening in the past.  No real baseball person could justify resting relievers who had only pitched 1 day in the past 3 days and a day off coming tomorrow. Just ludicrous.  This game was won and CH just gave it away.  There's more to come and I am fed up and sooooo tired of the excuses.
Well in Hurdle's defense, he couldn't use Vazquez to try to avoid losing a game. He can only use Vazquez if a save stat can be added to Vazquez' record. Yep, that's our real baseball person running the show. ::)

Which is weird because he has brought him in before the ninth before. 



Whatever you think of that though, it should have never have come to that because we should have had a roster with 25 guys on it.  ESPECIALLY considering we were cobbling together two games in a row where we'd be lucky to get 4-5 innings out of a starter.



Though knowing we didn't, the manager should have adjusted the guys leading up to the 9th.  I think I've more an issue with the innings leading up to the meltdown one than after. 

4B7975756153707974717E79180 wrote: Which is weird because he has brought him in before the ninth before. 



Whatever you think of that though, it should have never have come to that because we should have had a roster with 25 guys on it.  ESPECIALLY considering we were cobbling together two games in a row where we'd be lucky to get 4-5 innings out of a starter.



Though knowing we didn't, the manager should have adjusted the guys leading up to the 9th.  I think I've more an issue with the innings leading up to the meltdown one than after. 


that is why I think Liriano should have gone 2. The game was poorly managed from a player resource standpoint. Clint was counting on each pitcher that he had available doing the job. Two didn't and he didn't have a response.



Someone on another board said maybe Clint was sending a message to management that he didn't have enough pitchers on the roster.



I think that is BS because managers talk to gm's all the time. Sending a signal by losing a game is ludicrous.

1F39382F39295A0 wrote: Which is weird because he has brought him in before the ninth before. 



Whatever you think of that though, it should have never have come to that because we should have had a roster with 25 guys on it.  ESPECIALLY considering we were cobbling together two games in a row where we'd be lucky to get 4-5 innings out of a starter.



Though knowing we didn't, the manager should have adjusted the guys leading up to the 9th.  I think I've more an issue with the innings leading up to the meltdown one than after. 


that is why I think Liriano should have gone 2.  The game was poorly managed from a player resource standpoint.  Clint was counting on each pitcher that he had available doing the job.  Two didn't and he didn't have a response.



Someone on another board said maybe Clint was sending a message to management that he didn't have enough pitchers on the roster.



I think that is BS because managers talk to gm's all the time.  Sending a signal by losing a game is ludicrous.


Yeah I think you're on the right track. You can argue back and forth about the closer philosophy (or if maybe he didn't really want to pitch him but would) and we don't know how well the guys yet to come in were looking. I tend to yield to "insiders" who say a certain pitcher shouldn't go today. But Liriano was already out there and is a former starter and had thrown very few pitches.



I think roster management was the bigger issue but they're both things.

74464A4A5E6C4F464B4E4146270 wrote: Which is weird because he has brought him in before the ninth before. 



Whatever you think of that though, it should have never have come to that because we should have had a roster with 25 guys on it.  ESPECIALLY considering we were cobbling together two games in a row where we'd be lucky to get 4-5 innings out of a starter.



Though knowing we didn't, the manager should have adjusted the guys leading up to the 9th.  I think I've more an issue with the innings leading up to the meltdown one than after. 


that is why I think Liriano should have gone 2.  The game was poorly managed from a player resource standpoint.  Clint was counting on each pitcher that he had available doing the job.  Two didn't and he didn't have a response.



Someone on another board said maybe Clint was sending a message to management that he didn't have enough pitchers on the roster.



I think that is BS because managers talk to gm's all the time.  Sending a signal by losing a game is ludicrous.


Yeah I think you're on the right track.  You can argue back and forth about the closer philosophy (or if maybe he didn't really want to pitch him but would) and we don't know how well the guys yet to come in were looking.  I tend to yield to "insiders" who say a certain pitcher shouldn't go today.  But Liriano was already out there and is a former starter and had thrown very few pitches. 



I think roster management was the bigger issue but they're both things. 
It made no sense to me either. Liriano started 26 games last year. But in Hurdle's "rest is the most important thing" philosophy, he can't throw more than 36 pitches over 2 days following a day off. This is an example of Hurdle's formula managing getting in the way of common sense. He believes players should get as much rest as possible. He believes relievers should rarely go more than 1 inning. He believes a closer should only be used for saves. But the situation called for some flexible thinking. He just had 2 spot starters go 4 innings each on consecutive days. At least it followed an off day so everyone recently had rest. And he was a man short in the BP with Kela out. So to put his team in the best position to win, it was necessary to stray from his formula. But he refused. Nope, Liriano was not going to go more than 1 inning. Nope, Crick was going to rest after throwing 16 pitches the day before and having the day off the day before that. Nope, Vazquez was only going to pitch if he could get a save. The formula is the formula. So the only way they were going to win was if Feliz and Lyons could hold the lead. And even when it became apparent they couldn't, Hurdle refused to change the formula. SMH

785F4E4A4F526D594E4F4F522B0 wrote: One more thing as well if both Archer and Taillon are going to be out for awhile the Pirates need to call Mitch Keller up and put him in the rotation. He is 3-0 with an ERA a little over 3 at AAA. Bring him up and let him pitch. They can’t do what they did these two games with the Rangers with both Brault and Kingham where they both only pitch 4 innings and are allowed to only throw a certain amount of pitches. Keller needs to be brought up and given a chance at some point.




Did you se yesterday's start by Keller ? He's still not getting his change over and is working on a slider type pitch. It was said that he could not throw either for strikes yesterday. 85 pitches in 3 innings.



You for sure won't see Keller up anytime soon.

486F7E7A7F625D697E7F7F621B0 wrote: Ya it was insane not to use Vazquez there in the 8th after Feliz just walked the bases loaded. Hurdle’s explanations afterwards are just ludicrous and inexcusable. He manages for the hypothetical situations like Bobster explained that usually never happen. Like Bobster also pointed out why not just use Liriano another inning after he pitched a great 7th. Why tax an already run down bullpen by pitching Feliz instead who just simply can’t be trusted.  There have been some poorly managed games by Clint but this one definitely ranks up there in the top 3 or 4 and I have a bad feeling it’s going to lead to a huge downward spiral on this road trip. I hope I’m wrong but this was a huge huge loss today and Clint could seem to give a damn less afterwards that they lost the way they did he thinks he did everything right today.
CH is simply drawing his check and could care less about winning or this team. Oh he might care about a few of his players but he doesn't care about this team. If anyone is under the illusion that this team is going to finish higher than 4th you need a reality check. It's not because they don't have the talent despite what anyone says it's because CH, NH and the Nuttings are satisfied with a close to .500 team or worse. As long as they have average attendance and they can get a good TV deal everything is good. This Laissez-faire management style is costing real fans and the city of Pittsburgh which should be striving for excellence in all things Pittsburgh. I've been a fan since the 60's but everything has it's limits and I'm very close to totally losing interest and suspect this community is very close to losing this once storied franchise.