053B3E36253D3D361633243760520 wrote: Will they be pitching for the Pirates in 2021? I'll ignore the personal attack. I don't recall doing that. Doesn't help to make a point.
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The can kickers are out ion full force tonight. Many have already punted away 2021, and one guy on here has punted away 2022 and is pointing to 2023. I wonder if we could get someone to punt away 2023 and 2024 and point to 2025 as our year. The can has been kicked down the road to a dirt path, then it is being kicked down the dirt path and we will need a machete to kick it any further.
I want the Pirates to win as badly as you do, as early as next year. This current roster can't. It's made-up of guys who won only one game out of three last year. Few of those players will get much better, and there's no one to trade to improve that roster for 2021, as we just witnessed yesterday. The owner will not allow for the acquisition of the type of free agent who can make the difference needed to win next year.
I don't like it any more than you do but it's going to take a minimum of two years for the Pirates to show signs of being competitive again, and that's if BC does miraculous work. Sadly, that's the reality.
There are no shortcuts. I said months ago that if BC hasn't made legitimate progress by the 2021 trade deadline that I'd agree that kicking the can is his objective and I'll join you in your criticism. Every GM deserves at least that amount of time to restructure his organization, especially one who works for an owner like Nutting.
I would say that Josh Bell received a nice Christmas Present this year
Yep, he did. Another competitive team to screw up with his constant stance changes and his iron glove and candy arm. You go Josh! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Josh Bell to Nats
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Josh Bell to Nats
0A3F2828231A28282324284D0 wrote: This team's not re-building. Face it. They don't have a budget to build a grass hut.
If they can't afford Josh Bell, they can't afford anyone.
You tell me how on earth the Pirates will assemble a team capable of winning the World Series when they can't even win the NL Central division.
We just saw how much good signing Bell to an extension did. We gave a bat away for nothing, and it's not like we had a fearsome lineup to begin with.
I don't care about Bell, directly. I care about winning. You don't win with moves like this.
This is no re-build. Call it what it is. Been five (now, six) years since the last one & done. It's no re-build. Who wants to re-build a .317 team? It's a pure salary dump.
The kind of guys the Pirates keep? Polanco.
NFWWL.
Not only are you all over the board with your hypocrisy in this post, it's like watching a dog chase it's tail.
Care to translate?
A clear salary dump regardless of how it's spun.
Do you think this move improves the team on 2021? I don't, and if we disagree, we disagree.
You call it a "salary dump". No, a salary dump is getting rid of someone for the sake of getting rid of them, e.g. Liriano. You bemoan ".317"....HELLO McFLY!!!! Bell was the supposed offensive force for that team! What in the blazes are they losing, please, elaborate, how "dumping" Bell makes a .317 worse without him? Come on, I have all the rest of our lives for you to come up with an explanation that won't suffice.
This was a baseball move. If Bell were getting paid peanuts, it's a good trade. The DR guy was talked about on Pirates boards before....the DR guy was talked about on national baseball outlets.
They can't get rid of Polanco because he's Bell, only twice as expensive. But if they managed to get rid of Polanco today, you will all of a sudden become a Polanco fan simply because he has "salary".
You're basically saying, a team on pace for 111 losses WITH Josh Bell, is somehow degraded by losing him? Look at what you are posting, then get back to us.
If they can't afford Josh Bell, they can't afford anyone.
You tell me how on earth the Pirates will assemble a team capable of winning the World Series when they can't even win the NL Central division.
We just saw how much good signing Bell to an extension did. We gave a bat away for nothing, and it's not like we had a fearsome lineup to begin with.
I don't care about Bell, directly. I care about winning. You don't win with moves like this.
This is no re-build. Call it what it is. Been five (now, six) years since the last one & done. It's no re-build. Who wants to re-build a .317 team? It's a pure salary dump.
The kind of guys the Pirates keep? Polanco.
NFWWL.
Not only are you all over the board with your hypocrisy in this post, it's like watching a dog chase it's tail.
Care to translate?
A clear salary dump regardless of how it's spun.
Do you think this move improves the team on 2021? I don't, and if we disagree, we disagree.
You call it a "salary dump". No, a salary dump is getting rid of someone for the sake of getting rid of them, e.g. Liriano. You bemoan ".317"....HELLO McFLY!!!! Bell was the supposed offensive force for that team! What in the blazes are they losing, please, elaborate, how "dumping" Bell makes a .317 worse without him? Come on, I have all the rest of our lives for you to come up with an explanation that won't suffice.
This was a baseball move. If Bell were getting paid peanuts, it's a good trade. The DR guy was talked about on Pirates boards before....the DR guy was talked about on national baseball outlets.
They can't get rid of Polanco because he's Bell, only twice as expensive. But if they managed to get rid of Polanco today, you will all of a sudden become a Polanco fan simply because he has "salary".
You're basically saying, a team on pace for 111 losses WITH Josh Bell, is somehow degraded by losing him? Look at what you are posting, then get back to us.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Josh Bell to Nats
It's a salary dump until the money is used to improve the 2021 roster.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Josh Bell to Nats
3020211600000C630 wrote: None of us should be surprised by this move. Even though he won't admit it, we all know Cherington is rebuilding the organization in every way, including the major league roster. He knows he can't compete with the players in Pittsburgh, and that the minor league rosters have even less.
This is not unlike what Huntington faced and what his plan was. It's not the wrong plan, it just has to be done better than Huntington did it.
Bell wasn't going to be here by the time a competitive roster is built but, then again, neither will almost all of the other players who wore a Pirates uniform last season. Bell had proven that he was half a player, and even that half had only been productive for short periods of time.
I know nothing about either pitcher coming back in the trade but I do wish they were both ready to play in the major leagues. After these past six seasons, we've waited long enough to root for a competitive team.
Not surprised in the least Bell was traded. Good dude, but far too inconsistent with the bat and crappy D. [highlight]Felt he was going to be traded to an AL team to be full-time DH.[/highlight] I'm more upset that NH didn't deal him after the year of his monster first half. He would have gotten more than what we got in return. We got a 26-year old suspect who is linked to a Tanner Roark like guy (meh) and a 19-year old arm that won't be up for three years for a guy that had a lousy season offensively and defensively. Imagine if we traded him at the right time.
That was a big surprise to me. Unless the Nats have some inkling that the DH is coming in the next year or two, I thought sure Bell was headed to the AL. And they can't possibly be thinking about moving Bell to RF, can they? Oh my!
This is not unlike what Huntington faced and what his plan was. It's not the wrong plan, it just has to be done better than Huntington did it.
Bell wasn't going to be here by the time a competitive roster is built but, then again, neither will almost all of the other players who wore a Pirates uniform last season. Bell had proven that he was half a player, and even that half had only been productive for short periods of time.
I know nothing about either pitcher coming back in the trade but I do wish they were both ready to play in the major leagues. After these past six seasons, we've waited long enough to root for a competitive team.
Not surprised in the least Bell was traded. Good dude, but far too inconsistent with the bat and crappy D. [highlight]Felt he was going to be traded to an AL team to be full-time DH.[/highlight] I'm more upset that NH didn't deal him after the year of his monster first half. He would have gotten more than what we got in return. We got a 26-year old suspect who is linked to a Tanner Roark like guy (meh) and a 19-year old arm that won't be up for three years for a guy that had a lousy season offensively and defensively. Imagine if we traded him at the right time.
That was a big surprise to me. Unless the Nats have some inkling that the DH is coming in the next year or two, I thought sure Bell was headed to the AL. And they can't possibly be thinking about moving Bell to RF, can they? Oh my!
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Josh Bell to Nats
1F0F0E392F2F234C0 wrote: Will they be pitching for the Pirates in 2021? I'll ignore the personal attack. I don't recall doing that. Doesn't help to make a point.
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The can kickers are out ion full force tonight. Many have already punted away 2021, and one guy on here has punted away 2022 and is pointing to 2023. I wonder if we could get someone to punt away 2023 and 2024 and point to 2025 as our year. The can has been kicked down the road to a dirt path, then it is being kicked down the dirt path and we will need a machete to kick it any further.
I want the Pirates to win as badly as you do, as early as next year. This current roster can't. It's made-up of guys who won only one game out of three last year. Few of those players will get much better, and there's no one to trade to improve that roster for 2021, as we just witnessed yesterday. The owner will not allow for the acquisition of the type of free agent who can make the difference needed to win next year.
I don't like it any more than you do but it's going to take a minimum of two years for the Pirates to show signs of being competitive again, and that's if BC does miraculous work. Sadly, that's the reality.
There are no shortcuts. I said months ago that if BC hasn't made legitimate progress by the 2021 trade deadline that I'd agree that kicking the can is his objective and I'll join you in your criticism. Every GM deserves at least that amount of time to restructure his organization, especially one who works for an owner like Nutting.
This roster right now is an expansion like roster. Quite frankly if the fans don't show up and Bob cries and threatens to move the franchise somewhere - let him. MLB will give us an expansion team and we start out with a new owner and a roster like what we have right now. That is a huge gain for us.
I understand that sentiment if being done with Nutting is the objective because, frankly, he's by far the biggest obstacle to the team ever winning again. But my preference would be for the team to stay and Nutting to simply sell the franchise. Either that or MLB has to create equity by forcing all teams to spend the same amount of money on payroll. Neither of those look to be on the horizon.
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The can kickers are out ion full force tonight. Many have already punted away 2021, and one guy on here has punted away 2022 and is pointing to 2023. I wonder if we could get someone to punt away 2023 and 2024 and point to 2025 as our year. The can has been kicked down the road to a dirt path, then it is being kicked down the dirt path and we will need a machete to kick it any further.
I want the Pirates to win as badly as you do, as early as next year. This current roster can't. It's made-up of guys who won only one game out of three last year. Few of those players will get much better, and there's no one to trade to improve that roster for 2021, as we just witnessed yesterday. The owner will not allow for the acquisition of the type of free agent who can make the difference needed to win next year.
I don't like it any more than you do but it's going to take a minimum of two years for the Pirates to show signs of being competitive again, and that's if BC does miraculous work. Sadly, that's the reality.
There are no shortcuts. I said months ago that if BC hasn't made legitimate progress by the 2021 trade deadline that I'd agree that kicking the can is his objective and I'll join you in your criticism. Every GM deserves at least that amount of time to restructure his organization, especially one who works for an owner like Nutting.
This roster right now is an expansion like roster. Quite frankly if the fans don't show up and Bob cries and threatens to move the franchise somewhere - let him. MLB will give us an expansion team and we start out with a new owner and a roster like what we have right now. That is a huge gain for us.
I understand that sentiment if being done with Nutting is the objective because, frankly, he's by far the biggest obstacle to the team ever winning again. But my preference would be for the team to stay and Nutting to simply sell the franchise. Either that or MLB has to create equity by forcing all teams to spend the same amount of money on payroll. Neither of those look to be on the horizon.
Josh Bell to Nats
2D7B6D79766C7C777A6D5F78727E7673317C1F0 wrote: Will they be pitching for the Pirates in 2021? I'll ignore the personal attack. I don't recall doing that. Doesn't help to make a point.
_______
The can kickers are out ion full force tonight. Many have already punted away 2021, and one guy on here has punted away 2022 and is pointing to 2023. I wonder if we could get someone to punt away 2023 and 2024 and point to 2025 as our year. The can has been kicked down the road to a dirt path, then it is being kicked down the dirt path and we will need a machete to kick it any further.
I want the Pirates to win as badly as you do, as early as next year. This current roster can't. It's made-up of guys who won only one game out of three last year. Few of those players will get much better, and there's no one to trade to improve that roster for 2021, as we just witnessed yesterday. The owner will not allow for the acquisition of the type of free agent who can make the difference needed to win next year.
I don't like it any more than you do but it's going to take a minimum of two years for the Pirates to show signs of being competitive again, and that's if BC does miraculous work. Sadly, that's the reality.
There are no shortcuts. I said months ago that if BC hasn't made legitimate progress by the 2021 trade deadline that I'd agree that kicking the can is his objective and I'll join you in your criticism. Every GM deserves at least that amount of time to restructure his organization, especially one who works for an owner like Nutting.
This roster right now is an expansion like roster. Quite frankly if the fans don't show up and Bob cries and threatens to move the franchise somewhere - let him. MLB will give us an expansion team and we start out with a new owner and a roster like what we have right now. That is a huge gain for us.
I understand that sentiment if being done with Nutting is the objective because, frankly, he's by far the biggest obstacle to the team ever winning again. But my preference would be for the team to stay and Nutting to simply sell the franchise. Either that or MLB has to create equity by forcing all teams to spend the same amount of money on payroll.
Bell's defense is awful but it is at first base. Could be that other teams with better defenses at other positions don't care as much about his defense. I know defensive stats are flawed but if say Bell is 30th out of major league starters, how much difference is there between that and the 20th ranked player?
_______
The can kickers are out ion full force tonight. Many have already punted away 2021, and one guy on here has punted away 2022 and is pointing to 2023. I wonder if we could get someone to punt away 2023 and 2024 and point to 2025 as our year. The can has been kicked down the road to a dirt path, then it is being kicked down the dirt path and we will need a machete to kick it any further.
I want the Pirates to win as badly as you do, as early as next year. This current roster can't. It's made-up of guys who won only one game out of three last year. Few of those players will get much better, and there's no one to trade to improve that roster for 2021, as we just witnessed yesterday. The owner will not allow for the acquisition of the type of free agent who can make the difference needed to win next year.
I don't like it any more than you do but it's going to take a minimum of two years for the Pirates to show signs of being competitive again, and that's if BC does miraculous work. Sadly, that's the reality.
There are no shortcuts. I said months ago that if BC hasn't made legitimate progress by the 2021 trade deadline that I'd agree that kicking the can is his objective and I'll join you in your criticism. Every GM deserves at least that amount of time to restructure his organization, especially one who works for an owner like Nutting.
This roster right now is an expansion like roster. Quite frankly if the fans don't show up and Bob cries and threatens to move the franchise somewhere - let him. MLB will give us an expansion team and we start out with a new owner and a roster like what we have right now. That is a huge gain for us.
I understand that sentiment if being done with Nutting is the objective because, frankly, he's by far the biggest obstacle to the team ever winning again. But my preference would be for the team to stay and Nutting to simply sell the franchise. Either that or MLB has to create equity by forcing all teams to spend the same amount of money on payroll.
Bell's defense is awful but it is at first base. Could be that other teams with better defenses at other positions don't care as much about his defense. I know defensive stats are flawed but if say Bell is 30th out of major league starters, how much difference is there between that and the 20th ranked player?
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Josh Bell to Nats
Five teams don't ante up. 25 do. The numbers could be off by a few.
So, let's force the 25, give or take, to change.
I dont look for that to happen.
So, let's force the 25, give or take, to change.
I dont look for that to happen.
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DemDog
Josh Bell to Nats
596C7B7B70497B7B70777B1E0 wrote: It's a salary dump until the money is used to improve the 2021 roster.
That's your opinion and nobody will change it. You sound like a certain orange-skinned, yellow-haired guy who knows everything and is never wrong in his own mind. ;D ;D
I will face the reality of the Pirates and their ownership and move on and see if BC can do the impossible with this team.
That's your opinion and nobody will change it. You sound like a certain orange-skinned, yellow-haired guy who knows everything and is never wrong in his own mind. ;D ;D
I will face the reality of the Pirates and their ownership and move on and see if BC can do the impossible with this team.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Josh Bell to Nats
He's never wrong in a number of people's minds, too, if what I read and hear is to be believed.
Regardless, I'll throw The Reverse to you: It is NOT a Salary Dump in some people's mind, and nothing will change THEIR opinion, even in the face of the franchise's way of doing business.
Regardless, I'll throw The Reverse to you: It is NOT a Salary Dump in some people's mind, and nothing will change THEIR opinion, even in the face of the franchise's way of doing business.
Josh Bell to Nats
566374747F4674747F7874110 wrote: He's never wrong in a number of people's minds, too, if what I read and hear is to be believed.
Regardless, I'll throw The Reverse to you: It is NOT a Salary Dump in some people's mind, and nothing will change THEIR opinion, even in the face of the franchise's way of doing business.
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Let me explain. To some people, salary dumps are only salary dumps when the person making the dump is no longer in town. To them, there is no such thing as a salary dump if the person they are apologizing for is still employed by the Pirates.
Regardless, I'll throw The Reverse to you: It is NOT a Salary Dump in some people's mind, and nothing will change THEIR opinion, even in the face of the franchise's way of doing business.
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Let me explain. To some people, salary dumps are only salary dumps when the person making the dump is no longer in town. To them, there is no such thing as a salary dump if the person they are apologizing for is still employed by the Pirates.